What does John the Baptist mean by “He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.”

[Ain't Zwinglian]

The Text:

Matthew 3:11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Luke 3:16 “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

There are various interpretations of this passage of Scripture.

1. Baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire is simply a synonym for conversion either with or apart from water baptism. In other words, some refer this form of “Spirit baptism” is effected the moment a person trusts in Christ. I particularly do not ascribe to this interpretation because “baptizing” is clearly a reference to water baptism, as it has a human administrator — “Spirit baptism” does not.

2. Pentecostal-Charismatic interpretation. This would be the power to exercise the more spectacular gifts of the Spirit…. a distinct experience from conversion and water baptism. This interpretation is recent. Pentecostalism began with only a handful of students in a Bible School in Topeka, Kansas in 1900 and in Los Angelos in 1901.

3. Refers specifically to Day of Pentecost. The fire refers to the “tongues of fire” upon the twelve disciples (now called apostles) and serves as a public divine marker they have the authority from God to perform miracles, administrate christian baptism and preach in Jesus’ name. This event only occurs once in Scripture and is predicted by Jesus in Acts 1:4-5 and 1:8 as receiving “power” from the Holy Spirit to begin establishing His church….the “household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone” (Eph. 2:20). The pillar of fire demonstrates apostolic authority where as the speaking in tongue demonstrates the unleashing of the Holy Spirit and can be bestowed on any believer.

The divine marker as a human-flambeaux anointing upon the twelve was witnessed by 3,000 men from all over the known Roman world. As they went back to their home nations, they served as a sort of “John the baptist, preparing the way” for future Apostolic writings, evangelists, and deacons under the teaching of the Apostles with known authority from God.

This interpretation certainly isn’t incompatible with the text or context. However, if we use the hermenuetical rule, "The clear texts interpret the obscure texts" we use Jesus' statements in Acts 1 as the clear statements to the referring to the Day of Pentecost rather than John's statement.

4. Being baptized with fire refers Judgment. And this is where interpretation of what the baptism of the “Holy Spirit and fire” becomes difficult. In all probability there are a few levels of meaning that pertain to fire.

Specifically, judgment upon the Jewish ruling authorities who rejected John’s baptism and preaching. Both Matthew and Luke refer to this. The belief that John had the fire of judgment or wrath in view would seem to be supported by a number of contextual factors. First, the topic of eternal judgment is foundational to John’s narrative, as he prefaced his remarks by speaking of “the wrath to come” (Matthew 3:7 Luke 3:7). Additionally, not only is fire used in the definite sense of punishment immediately after John talked about being baptized with that element (Matthew 3:12; Luke 3:17), but also immediately before (Matthew 3:10; Luke 3:9). In Matthew 3:10, John said that “even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire” (Mt 3:10). In other words, those who would not repent would be destroyed by a judgment of fire. As a general rule, when a word is clearly defined by an author, and he uses the same word again within the same context, we presume that he has the same meaning in mind in both instances. It would stand to reason, then, that if the “fire” of verse 10 refers to judgment, so does the “fire” of verse 11.

5. Another interpretation would be John is referring to the giving of the Holy Spirit to believers, and of judgment of fire to unbelievers. It is also perhaps noteworthy that in both cases where the Gospel writers specifically indicated that a mixed audience was the subject of John’s message (Matthew 3:7–10; Luke 3:7–15)—that is, the “you” that he was applying his statement to—both the Spirit and fire are mentioned. But when the narrative focuses on those who were in fact submitting to John’s baptism of repentance (Mark 1:5–7), or is addressed directly to believers (Acts 1:5; 11:16), only baptism in the Holy Spirit is mentioned. In the case of Acts 1:5, it seems that if Luke had intended to make a connection between the tongues of fire at Pentecost, then he might have referenced both aspects of baptism as he had in his Gospel. There is also perhaps some ancillary support for this view in that the term fire is used in conveying the negative results prophesied in Joel 2:28-32, which Peter directly connects as having begun at Pentecost, Acts 2:16ff.

John the Baptist has two groups of people in mind: those who respond to Jesus in repentance, and those who do not. Those who respond in repentance will be gathered into the barn (saved), while those who do not repent will be burned (damned). Burned with what? Fire. In context, then, the baptism with “the Holy Spirit and fire” John spoke of was a single baptism with a double effect. Those who believe and repent would be baptized with the Spirit, whereas those who do not believe and do not repent will be baptized with fiery judgment by the God who is a consuming fire (Heb 12:29). Both are called a baptism.

This may sound quite different to us because we associate baptism with something good. However, “baptism” is also associated with negative things, such as death. In Mark 10:38-39 and Luke 12:50, Jesus spoke of His death as a baptism. So whether the baptism is good or bad depends on the context. In the context of Matthew 3, the baptism is both good and bad. It’s good for the repentant, but bad for the unrepentant. The repentant will be given the Holy Spirit while the unrepentant will be judged.

Additionally, Jesus statements seems to refer to judgment and salvation when the Pharisees rejected John’s baptism. See Luke 7:29. The Pharisees in rejecting John’s baptism was tantamount to rejecting Jesus’ preaching The people believed Jesus preaching because they were baptized by John, and the Pharisee rejected Jesus’ preaching because they rejected John’s baptism.

Additionally, see Matthew 21:31-32 and 43-44. Jesus notes the Jewish leaders who fail to respond to John’s message caused the tax collectors and prostitutes to “go before them into the kingdom”. These who follow John’s message and baptism leads on into the kingdom, while failure to believe John and his baptism hinders one from entering the Kingdom. The implication here is that believing John’s message leads one into the kingdom while failure to believe hinders him.

However as Jesus reveals in vs. 43-44, a rejection of Jesus teachings is more severe than the rejection of John’s. Because the rejection of Jesus preaching leads to the destruction of the city and causes the kingdom to bypass the Jewish leaders to another people.

Jesus' clear teaching in Mt. 21 and Luke 7 seem to indicate a dual interpretation of the one baptism of "the Holy Spirit and fire."

 

[sandman]

I prefer the first baptism
The following verse is the context to both Matthew and Luke

Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

 

[Richard T]

The Text:

Matthew 3:11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Luke 3:16 “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

There are various interpretations of this passage of Scripture.

1. Baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire is simply a synonym for conversion either with or apart from water baptism. In other words, some refer this form of “Spirit baptism” is effected the moment a person trusts in Christ. I particularly do not ascribe to this interpretation because “baptizing” is clearly a reference to water baptism, as it has a human administrator — “Spirit baptism” does not.

2. Pentecostal-Charismatic interpretation. This would be the power to exercise the more spectacular gifts of the Spirit…. a distinct experience from conversion and water baptism. This interpretation is recent. Pentecostalism began with only a handful of students in a Bible School in Topeka, Kansas in 1900 and in Los Angelos in 1901.

3. Refers specifically to Day of Pentecost. The fire refers to the “tongues of fire” upon the twelve disciples (now called apostles) and serves as a public divine marker they have the authority from God to perform miracles, administrate christian baptism and preach in Jesus’ name. This event only occurs once in Scripture and is predicted by Jesus in Acts 1:4-5 and 1:8 as receiving “power” from the Holy Spirit to begin establishing His church….the “household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone” (Eph. 2:20). The pillar of fire demonstrates apostolic authority where as the speaking in tongue demonstrates the unleashing of the Holy Spirit and can be bestowed on any believer.

The divine marker as a human-flambeaux anointing upon the twelve was witnessed by 3,000 men from all over the known Roman world. As they went back to their home nations, they served as a sort of “John the baptist, preparing the way” for future Apostolic writings, evangelists, and deacons under the teaching of the Apostles with known authority from God.

This interpretation certainly isn’t incompatible with the text or context.

4. Being baptized with fire refers Judgment. And this is where interpretation of what the baptism of the “Holy Spirit and fire” becomes difficult. In all probability there are a few levels of meaning that pertain to fire.

Specifically, judgment upon the Jewish ruling authorities who rejected John’s baptism and preaching. Both Matthew and Luke refer to this. The belief that John had the fire of judgment or wrath in view would seem to be supported by a number of contextual factors. First, the topic of eternal judgment is foundational to John’s narrative, as he prefaced his remarks by speaking of “the wrath to come” (Matthew 3:7 Luke 3:7). Additionally, not only is fire used in the definite sense of punishment immediately after John talked about being baptized with that element (Matthew 3:12; Luke 3:17), but also immediately before (Matthew 3:10; Luke 3:9). In Matthew 3:10, John said that “even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire” (Mt 3:10). In other words, those who would not repent would be destroyed by a judgment of fire. As a general rule, when a word is clearly defined by an author, and he uses the same word again within the same context, we presume that he has the same meaning in mind in both instances. It would stand to reason, then, that if the “fire” of verse 10 refers to judgment, so does the “fire” of verse 11.

5. Another interpretation would be John is referring to the giving of the Holy Spirit to believers, and of judgment of fire to unbelievers. It is also perhaps noteworthy that in both cases where the Gospel writers specifically indicated that a mixed audience was the subject of John’s message (Matthew 3:7–10; Luke 3:7–15)—that is, the “you” that he was applying his statement to—both the Spirit and fire are mentioned. But when the narrative focuses on those who were in fact submitting to John’s baptism of repentance (Mark 1:5–7), or is addressed directly to believers (Acts 1:5; 11:16), only baptism in the Holy Spirit is mentioned. In the case of Acts 1:5, it seems that if Luke had intended to make a connection between the tongues of fire at Pentecost, then he might have referenced both aspects of baptism as he had in his Gospel. There is also perhaps some ancillary support for this view in that the term fire is used in conveying the negative results prophesied in Joel 2:28-32, which Peter directly connects as having begun at Pentecost, Acts 2:16ff.

John the Baptist has two groups of people in mind: those who respond to Jesus in repentance, and those who do not. Those who respond in repentance will be gathered into the barn (saved), while those who do not repent will be burned (damned). Burned with what? Fire. In context, then, the baptism with “the Holy Spirit and fire” John spoke of was a single baptism with a double effect. Those who believe and repent would be baptized with the Spirit, whereas those who do not believe and do not repent will be baptized with fiery judgment by the God who is a consuming fire (Heb 12:29). Both are called a baptism.

This may sound quite different to us because we associate baptism with something good. However, “baptism” is also associated with negative things, such as death. In Mark 10:38-39 and Luke 12:50, Jesus spoke of His death as a baptism. So whether the baptism is good or bad depends on the context. In the context of Matthew 3, the baptism is both good and bad. It’s good for the repentant, but bad for the unrepentant. The repentant will be given the Holy Spirit while the unrepentant will be judged.

Additionally, Jesus statements seems to refer to judgment and salvation when the Pharisees rejected John’s baptism. See Luke 7:29. The Pharisees in rejecting John’s baptism was tantamount to rejecting Jesus’ preaching The people believed Jesus preaching because they were baptized by John, and the Pharisee rejected Jesus’ preaching because they rejected John’s baptism.

Additionally, see Matthew 21:31-32 and 43-44. Jesus notes the Jewish leaders who fail to respond to John’s message caused the tax collectors and prostitutes to “go before them into the kingdom”. These who follow John’s message and baptism leads on into the kingdom, while failure to believe John and his baptism hinders one from entering the Kingdom. The implication here is that believing John’s message leads one into the kingdom while failure to believe hinders him.

However as Jesus reveals in vs. 43-44, a rejection of Jesus teachings is more severe than the rejection of John’s. Because the rejection of Jesus preaching leads to the destruction of the city and causes the kingdom to bypass the Jewish leaders to another people.

Its number 5. In context Matthew ch 3:7 he is talking to the Pharisees. The Holy Ghost for believers, the fire for the unbelievers.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

The Text:

Matthew 3:11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Luke 3:16 “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

There are various interpretations of this passage of Scripture.

1. Baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire is simply a synonym for conversion either with or apart from water baptism. In other words, some refer this form of “Spirit baptism” is effected the moment a person trusts in Christ. I particularly do not ascribe to this interpretation because “baptizing” is clearly a reference to water baptism, as it has a human administrator — “Spirit baptism” does not.

2. Pentecostal-Charismatic interpretation. This would be the power to exercise the more spectacular gifts of the Spirit…. a distinct experience from conversion and water baptism. This interpretation is recent. Pentecostalism began with only a handful of students in a Bible School in Topeka, Kansas in 1900 and in Los Angelos in 1901.

3. Refers specifically to Day of Pentecost. The fire refers to the “tongues of fire” upon the twelve disciples (now called apostles) and serves as a public divine marker they have the authority from God to perform miracles, administrate christian baptism and preach in Jesus’ name. This event only occurs once in Scripture and is predicted by Jesus in Acts 1:4-5 and 1:8 as receiving “power” from the Holy Spirit to begin establishing His church….the “household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone” (Eph. 2:20). The pillar of fire demonstrates apostolic authority where as the speaking in tongue demonstrates the unleashing of the Holy Spirit and can be bestowed on any believer.

The divine marker as a human-flambeaux anointing upon the twelve was witnessed by 3,000 men from all over the known Roman world. As they went back to their home nations, they served as a sort of “John the baptist, preparing the way” for future Apostolic writings, evangelists, and deacons under the teaching of the Apostles with known authority from God.

This interpretation certainly isn’t incompatible with the text or context.

4. Being baptized with fire refers Judgment. And this is where interpretation of what the baptism of the “Holy Spirit and fire” becomes difficult. In all probability there are a few levels of meaning that pertain to fire.

Specifically, judgment upon the Jewish ruling authorities who rejected John’s baptism and preaching. Both Matthew and Luke refer to this. The belief that John had the fire of judgment or wrath in view would seem to be supported by a number of contextual factors. First, the topic of eternal judgment is foundational to John’s narrative, as he prefaced his remarks by speaking of “the wrath to come” (Matthew 3:7 Luke 3:7). Additionally, not only is fire used in the definite sense of punishment immediately after John talked about being baptized with that element (Matthew 3:12; Luke 3:17), but also immediately before (Matthew 3:10; Luke 3:9). In Matthew 3:10, John said that “even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire” (Mt 3:10). In other words, those who would not repent would be destroyed by a judgment of fire. As a general rule, when a word is clearly defined by an author, and he uses the same word again within the same context, we presume that he has the same meaning in mind in both instances. It would stand to reason, then, that if the “fire” of verse 10 refers to judgment, so does the “fire” of verse 11.

5. Another interpretation would be John is referring to the giving of the Holy Spirit to believers, and of judgment of fire to unbelievers. It is also perhaps noteworthy that in both cases where the Gospel writers specifically indicated that a mixed audience was the subject of John’s message (Matthew 3:7–10; Luke 3:7–15)—that is, the “you” that he was applying his statement to—both the Spirit and fire are mentioned. But when the narrative focuses on those who were in fact submitting to John’s baptism of repentance (Mark 1:5–7), or is addressed directly to believers (Acts 1:5; 11:16), only baptism in the Holy Spirit is mentioned. In the case of Acts 1:5, it seems that if Luke had intended to make a connection between the tongues of fire at Pentecost, then he might have referenced both aspects of baptism as he had in his Gospel. There is also perhaps some ancillary support for this view in that the term fire is used in conveying the negative results prophesied in Joel 2:28-32, which Peter directly connects as having begun at Pentecost, Acts 2:16ff.

John the Baptist has two groups of people in mind: those who respond to Jesus in repentance, and those who do not. Those who respond in repentance will be gathered into the barn (saved), while those who do not repent will be burned (damned). Burned with what? Fire. In context, then, the baptism with “the Holy Spirit and fire” John spoke of was a single baptism with a double effect. Those who believe and repent would be baptized with the Spirit, whereas those who do not believe and do not repent will be baptized with fiery judgment by the God who is a consuming fire (Heb 12:29). Both are called a baptism.

This may sound quite different to us because we associate baptism with something good. However, “baptism” is also associated with negative things, such as death. In Mark 10:38-39 and Luke 12:50, Jesus spoke of His death as a baptism. So whether the baptism is good or bad depends on the context. In the context of Matthew 3, the baptism is both good and bad. It’s good for the repentant, but bad for the unrepentant. The repentant will be given the Holy Spirit while the unrepentant will be judged.

Additionally, Jesus statements seems to refer to judgment and salvation when the Pharisees rejected John’s baptism. See Luke 7:29. The Pharisees in rejecting John’s baptism was tantamount to rejecting Jesus’ preaching The people believed Jesus preaching because they were baptized by John, and the Pharisee rejected Jesus’ preaching because they rejected John’s baptism.

Additionally, see Matthew 21:31-32 and 43-44. Jesus notes the Jewish leaders who fail to respond to John’s message caused the tax collectors and prostitutes to “go before them into the kingdom”. These who follow John’s message and baptism leads on into the kingdom, while failure to believe John and his baptism hinders one from entering the Kingdom. The implication here is that believing John’s message leads one into the kingdom while failure to believe hinders him.

However as Jesus reveals in vs. 43-44, a rejection of Jesus teachings is more severe than the rejection of John’s. Because the rejection of Jesus preaching leads to the destruction of the city and causes the kingdom to bypass the Jewish leaders to another people.

Simply put, His Holy Spirit has the power to immerse ( baptize) one with Himself ( salvation) or immerse (baptize) one with fire ( condemnation). Blessings.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I am in agreement with the posters thus far. I find the Pentecostal interpretation, as well as the day of Pentecost view, to be examples of eisegesis in which the Acts passage is read back into the gospel passage. It is not unlike the problems in John 6 which is used by many to infer that Jesus was talking about transubstantiation.

 

[enoob57]

God has revealed His heart in the Revelation... the New Heaven and New Earth this is our eternity...
Revelation 20:11 (KJV)
[11] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
2 Peter 3:12-13 (KJV)
[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Revelation 21:1-5 (KJV)
[1] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
[2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
[3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
[5] And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

[JSRG]

God has revealed His heart in the Revelation... the New Heaven and New Earth this is our eternity...
Revelation 20:11 (KJV)
[11] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
2 Peter 3:12-13 (KJV)
[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Revelation 21:1-5 (KJV)
[1] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
[2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
[3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
[5] And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

I'm a bit confused. What does this have to do with the topic?

 

[enoob57]

I'm a bit confused. What does this have to do with the topic?

It was what Baptism of fire is referring to ... Possibly because it is not specific in the text... it is the ultimate emersion in fire!

 

[Dan Perez]

It was what Baptism of fire is referring to ... Possibly because it is not specific in the text... it is the ultimate emersion in fire!

The Greek FIRE // PUR is also mentioned by Paul in 1 Cor 3:FIRE // PUR and means JUDGEMENT !!
dan p

 

[Jan001]

The Text:

Matthew 3:11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Luke 3:16 “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.


3. Refers specifically to Day of Pentecost. The fire refers to the “tongues of fire” upon the twelve disciples (now called apostles) and serves as a public divine marker they have the authority from God to perform miracles, administrate christian baptism and preach in Jesus’ name. This event only occurs once in Scripture and is predicted by Jesus in Acts 1:4-5 and 1:8 as receiving “power” from the Holy Spirit to begin establishing His church….the “household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone” (Eph. 2:20). The pillar of fire demonstrates apostolic authority where as the speaking in tongue demonstrates the unleashing of the Holy Spirit and can be bestowed on any believer.

I agree.

Normally we first receive the Holy Spirit when we are water baptized according to Jesus' command in Matthew 28:18-19.

Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

We Christians do also receive an outpouring (Baptism) of the Holy Spirit with fire by the laying on of hands by a bishop/apostle instead of by visible flames of fire. These visible flames were seen by the apostles when they received the Holy Spirit but these flames are not visible to us when we receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit with fire. We each receive a measure of the Holy Spirit's power through the laying on of hands to help us fulfill our state in life.

Acts 8:14-17 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15 The two went down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit 16 (for as yet the Spirit had not come upon any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus). 17 Then Peter and John laid their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. 18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money,


In some denominations, this Baptism of the Holy Spirit with fire is called Confirmation.

The baptism with water (Matthew 28:18-19) makes us Jesus' disciples. The Holy Spirit first makes His home in us at the time of this baptism.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit with fire which we receive by the laying on of hands by an apostle/bishop makes us soldiers of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:3-4 Share in suffering like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. 4 No one serving in the army gets entangled in everyday affairs; the soldier’s aim is to please the enlisting officer.

We must properly equip ourselves as good soldiers for our battle against evil by doing the following everyday:

Ephesians 6:10-18 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his power; 11 put on the whole armor of God, so that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil, 12 for our struggle is not against blood and flesh but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, so that you may be able to withstand on the evil day and, having prevailed against everything, to stand firm. 14 Stand, therefore, and belt your waist with truth and put on the breastplate of righteousness 15 and lace up your sandals in preparation for the gospel of peace. 16 With all of these, take the shield of faith, with which you will be able to quench all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18 Pray in the Spirit at all times in every prayer and supplication. To that end, keep alert and always persevere in supplication for all the saints.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I agree.

Normally we first receive the Holy Spirit when we are water baptized according to Jesus' command in Matthew 28:18-19.

Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

We Christians do also receive an outpouring (Baptism) of the Holy Spirit with fire by the laying on of hands by a bishop/apostle instead of by visible flames of fire. These visible flames were seen by the apostles when they received the Holy Spirit but these flames are not visible to us when we receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit with fire. We each receive a measure of the Holy Spirit's power through the laying on of hands to help us fulfill our state in life.

Acts 8:14-17 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15 The two went down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit 16 (for as yet the Spirit had not come upon any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus). 17 Then Peter and John laid their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. 18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money,


In some denominations, this Baptism of the Holy Spirit with fire is called Confirmation.

The baptism with water (Matthew 28:18-19) makes us Jesus' disciples. The Holy Spirit first makes His home in us at the time of this baptism.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit with fire which we receive by the laying on of hands by an apostle/bishop makes us soldiers of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:3-4 Share in suffering like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. 4 No one serving in the army gets entangled in everyday affairs; the soldier’s aim is to please the enlisting officer.

We must properly equip ourselves as good soldiers for our battle against evil by doing the following everyday:

Ephesians 6:10-18 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his power; 11 put on the whole armor of God, so that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil, 12 for our struggle is not against blood and flesh but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, so that you may be able to withstand on the evil day and, having prevailed against everything, to stand firm. 14 Stand, therefore, and belt your waist with truth and put on the breastplate of righteousness 15 and lace up your sandals in preparation for the gospel of peace. 16 With all of these, take the shield of faith, with which you will be able to quench all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18 Pray in the Spirit at all times in every prayer and supplication. To that end, keep alert and always persevere in supplication for all the saints.

There was, assuredly, no fire involved when I was confirmed in the United Presbyterian Church. I have yet to encounter any major denomination which practices confirmation which professes that there is anything resembling a baptism of fire associated with confirmation.

 

[Jan001]

There was, assuredly, no fire involved when I was confirmed in the United Presbyterian Church. I have yet to encounter any major denomination which practices confirmation which professes that there is anything resembling a baptism of fire associated with confirmation.

Every Church has its own doctrines.


Confirmation in the Catholic Church:

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: ​

​

It is evident from its celebration that the effect of the sacrament of Confirmation is the special outpouring of the Holy Spirit as once granted to the apostles on the day of Pentecost ... Recall then that you have received the spiritual seal, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of right judgment and courage, the spirit of knowledge and reverence, the spirit of holy fear in God's presence. Guard what you have received. God the Father has marked you with his sign; Christ the Lord has confirmed you and has placed his pledge, the Spirit, in your hearts.[3]​

​

The Catechism of the Catholic Church sees the account in the Acts of the Apostles 8:14–17 as a scriptural basis for Confirmation as a sacrament distinct from Baptism:​

​

"Now when the apostles, who were in Jerusalem, had heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John. Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For he was not as yet come upon any of them; but they were only baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid their hands upon them, and they received the Holy Spirit."[4]​

​

​

The giving of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost:

Acts 1:4-5 While staying with them, he ordered them not to leave Jerusalem but to wait there for the promise of the Father. “This,” he said, “is what you have heard from me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

Acts 2:1-4 When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly from heaven there came a sound like the rush of a violent wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3 Divided tongues, as of fire, appeared among them, and a tongue rested on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages, as the Spirit gave them ability.

Acts 11:15-18 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as it had upon us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 If then God gave them the same gift that he gave us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could hinder God?” 18 When they heard this, they were silenced. And they praised God, saying, “Then God has given even to the gentiles the repentance that leads to life.”

Confirmation as I understand it:

Acts 8:18-20 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money, 19 saying, “Give me also this power so that anyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” 20 But Peter said to him, “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain God’s gift with money!

Luke 3:16 John answered all of them by saying, “I baptize you with water, but one who is more powerful than I is coming; I am not worthy to untie the strap of his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

To me this meant the Pentecostal tongues of fire upon the apostles which I received by the laying on of hands at confirmation.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Every Church has its own doctrines.


Confirmation in the Catholic Church:

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: ​

​

It is evident from its celebration that the effect of the sacrament of Confirmation is the special outpouring of the Holy Spirit as once granted to the apostles on the day of Pentecost ... Recall then that you have received the spiritual seal, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of right judgment and courage, the spirit of knowledge and reverence, the spirit of holy fear in God's presence. Guard what you have received. God the Father has marked you with his sign; Christ the Lord has confirmed you and has placed his pledge, the Spirit, in your hearts.[3]​

​

The Catechism of the Catholic Church sees the account in the Acts of the Apostles 8:14–17 as a scriptural basis for Confirmation as a sacrament distinct from Baptism:​

​

"Now when the apostles, who were in Jerusalem, had heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John. Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For he was not as yet come upon any of them; but they were only baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid their hands upon them, and they received the Holy Spirit."[4]​

​

​

The giving of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost:

Acts 1:4-5 While staying with them, he ordered them not to leave Jerusalem but to wait there for the promise of the Father. “This,” he said, “is what you have heard from me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

Acts 2:1-4 When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly from heaven there came a sound like the rush of a violent wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3 Divided tongues, as of fire, appeared among them, and a tongue rested on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages, as the Spirit gave them ability.

Acts 11:15-18 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as it had upon us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 If then God gave them the same gift that he gave us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could hinder God?” 18 When they heard this, they were silenced. And they praised God, saying, “Then God has given even to the gentiles the repentance that leads to life.”

Confirmation as I understand it:

Acts 8:18-20 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money, 19 saying, “Give me also this power so that anyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” 20 But Peter said to him, “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain God’s gift with money!

Luke 3:16 John answered all of them by saying, “I baptize you with water, but one who is more powerful than I is coming; I am not worthy to untie the strap of his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

To me this meant the Pentecostal tongues of fire upon the apostles which I received by the laying on of hands at confirmation.

Every denomination does, indeed, have its own understanding. Although I have known many Catholics, of whom many are my friends, not one of them ever had tongues of fire descending on their heads when they were confirmed, nor did they miraculously speak in foreign tongues at confirmation. Like baptism, there were no divine, physical signs accompanying the rite. At baptism they were filled with the Holy Spirit who, subsequently, departed from them, only to return at confirmation. The Holy Spirit comes and goes, it seems, such that auricular confession to a Catholic priest is necessary to have the Holy Spirit return - at least until the Catholic commits another sin.

 

[Jan001]

Every denomination does, indeed, have its own understanding. Although I have known many Catholics, of whom many are my friends, not one of them ever had tongues of fire descending on their heads when they were confirmed, nor did they miraculously speak in foreign tongues at confirmation. Like baptism, there were no divine, physical signs accompanying the rite. At baptism they were filled with the Holy Spirit who, subsequently, departed from them, only to return at confirmation. The Holy Spirit comes and goes, it seems, such that auricular confession to a Catholic priest is necessary to have the Holy Spirit return - at least until the Catholic commits another sin.

There can be divine physical signs for both of these but this is not usual in the Catholic Church.
A Catholic first receives the Holy Spirit at Baptism and he can only lose the Holy Spirit's presence within his soul by committing a mortal sin. He does need to his confess his mortal sin in person to a priest as soon as possible. John 20:23 In Catholicism, Confirmation imparts an additional measure of the Holy Spirit's graces to a person's soul.

1 John 5:16-17 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

Unfortunately, most persons who claim to be Catholic do not know or understand the Catholic religion.

 

[bbbbbbb]

There can be divine physical signs for both of these but this is not usual in the Catholic Church.
A Catholic first receives the Holy Spirit at Baptism and he can only lose the Holy Spirit's presence within his soul by committing a mortal sin. He does need to his confess his mortal sin in person to a priest as soon as possible. John 20:23 In Catholicism, Confirmation imparts an additional measure of the Holy Spirit's graces to a person's soul.

1 John 5:16-17 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

Unfortunately, most persons who claim to be Catholic do not know or understand the Catholic religion.

Curiously, I have yet to meet a Catholic who has told me that they do not know or understand their religion. In fact, I have had many, such as yourself, tell me that there are Catholics, other than themselves, who do not know or understand their faith. These other Catholics usually hold differing views than they do as, for example, opinions regarding the current Pope and his various statements. Perhaps the Pope does not know or understand the Catholic religion. I am hardly one to make that determination. All I know is that the Catechism of the Catholic Church is considered to be the most reliable summary of the Catholic faith.

 

[Jan001]

I also think it is best to go by the Catechism to determine what the Catholic Church teaches.

I don't do much fellowshipping with Catholics who do not go to any church. We don't have enough in common for more than a superficial relationship. The ones I know don't live godly lives.

I am friends and do fellowship with former Catholics who attend other churches. We have a lot in common. We all love the LORD God and we strive to live a life in imitation of Christ but we do have different interpretations of some of His teachings.

Regarding the Pope, I keep praying that God will immediately bless him with his own Saul to Paul encounter.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I think the most direct and obvious meaning is it is an allusion to Pentecost. Though I also would admit that the "with fire" can likely refer to suffering or judgment.

Christ asked His disciples if they would follow Him in receiving that baptism He would receive, and drink from the cup He must drink--referring to His Passion. In that sense, the sufferings of being a disciple of Jesus is a kind of "baptism with fire"; it could also be a reference to judgment, as we also read how at Judgment there is a fire that consumes and destroys all that is impure--the fire that destroys sin is also the fire that, out of which, comes the new heavens and new earth.

I don't know which I would "prefer" as the proper understanding of "baptize ... with fire"; I think there is a valid case to be made in each. The baptism with the Holy Spirit is clearly a reference to what happened on Pentecost, Jesus clearly says this in Acts 1, and St. Peter clearly says this when talking to the rest of the Jerusalem leadership after the Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles and Peter had the entire household of Cornelius baptized as Christians. But the "with fire" reference is, I think, open to some interpretation--it could be a continued reference to Pentecost, or it could be a reference to the suffering of the Faithful as followers of the Lord, or it could be a reference to the Day of Judgment (or, perhaps these aren't even mutually exclusive, but "with fire" encompasses all of this).

What I do reject are interpretations which ignore the context and words of Scripture in favor of interpretations and opinions rooted entirely on personal experiences.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[concretecamper]

The Text:

Matthew 3:11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Luke 3:16 “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

There are various interpretations of this passage of Scripture.

1. Baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire is simply a synonym for conversion either with or apart from water baptism. In other words, some refer this form of “Spirit baptism” is effected the moment a person trusts in Christ. I particularly do not ascribe to this interpretation because “baptizing” is clearly a reference to water baptism, as it has a human administrator — “Spirit baptism” does not.

2. Pentecostal-Charismatic interpretation. This would be the power to exercise the more spectacular gifts of the Spirit…. a distinct experience from conversion and water baptism. This interpretation is recent. Pentecostalism began with only a handful of students in a Bible School in Topeka, Kansas in 1900 and in Los Angelos in 1901.

3. Refers specifically to Day of Pentecost. The fire refers to the “tongues of fire” upon the twelve disciples (now called apostles) and serves as a public divine marker they have the authority from God to perform miracles, administrate christian baptism and preach in Jesus’ name. This event only occurs once in Scripture and is predicted by Jesus in Acts 1:4-5 and 1:8 as receiving “power” from the Holy Spirit to begin establishing His church….the “household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone” (Eph. 2:20). The pillar of fire demonstrates apostolic authority where as the speaking in tongue demonstrates the unleashing of the Holy Spirit and can be bestowed on any believer.

The divine marker as a human-flambeaux anointing upon the twelve was witnessed by 3,000 men from all over the known Roman world. As they went back to their home nations, they served as a sort of “John the baptist, preparing the way” for future Apostolic writings, evangelists, and deacons under the teaching of the Apostles with known authority from God.

This interpretation certainly isn’t incompatible with the text or context. However, if we use the hermenuetical rule, "The clear texts interpret the obscure texts" we use Jesus' statements in Acts 1 as the clear statements to the referring to the Day of Pentecost rather than John's statement.

4. Being baptized with fire refers Judgment. And this is where interpretation of what the baptism of the “Holy Spirit and fire” becomes difficult. In all probability there are a few levels of meaning that pertain to fire.

Specifically, judgment upon the Jewish ruling authorities who rejected John’s baptism and preaching. Both Matthew and Luke refer to this. The belief that John had the fire of judgment or wrath in view would seem to be supported by a number of contextual factors. First, the topic of eternal judgment is foundational to John’s narrative, as he prefaced his remarks by speaking of “the wrath to come” (Matthew 3:7 Luke 3:7). Additionally, not only is fire used in the definite sense of punishment immediately after John talked about being baptized with that element (Matthew 3:12; Luke 3:17), but also immediately before (Matthew 3:10; Luke 3:9). In Matthew 3:10, John said that “even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire” (Mt 3:10). In other words, those who would not repent would be destroyed by a judgment of fire. As a general rule, when a word is clearly defined by an author, and he uses the same word again within the same context, we presume that he has the same meaning in mind in both instances. It would stand to reason, then, that if the “fire” of verse 10 refers to judgment, so does the “fire” of verse 11.

5. Another interpretation would be John is referring to the giving of the Holy Spirit to believers, and of judgment of fire to unbelievers. It is also perhaps noteworthy that in both cases where the Gospel writers specifically indicated that a mixed audience was the subject of John’s message (Matthew 3:7–10; Luke 3:7–15)—that is, the “you” that he was applying his statement to—both the Spirit and fire are mentioned. But when the narrative focuses on those who were in fact submitting to John’s baptism of repentance (Mark 1:5–7), or is addressed directly to believers (Acts 1:5; 11:16), only baptism in the Holy Spirit is mentioned. In the case of Acts 1:5, it seems that if Luke had intended to make a connection between the tongues of fire at Pentecost, then he might have referenced both aspects of baptism as he had in his Gospel. There is also perhaps some ancillary support for this view in that the term fire is used in conveying the negative results prophesied in Joel 2:28-32, which Peter directly connects as having begun at Pentecost, Acts 2:16ff.

John the Baptist has two groups of people in mind: those who respond to Jesus in repentance, and those who do not. Those who respond in repentance will be gathered into the barn (saved), while those who do not repent will be burned (damned). Burned with what? Fire. In context, then, the baptism with “the Holy Spirit and fire” John spoke of was a single baptism with a double effect. Those who believe and repent would be baptized with the Spirit, whereas those who do not believe and do not repent will be baptized with fiery judgment by the God who is a consuming fire (Heb 12:29). Both are called a baptism.

This may sound quite different to us because we associate baptism with something good. However, “baptism” is also associated with negative things, such as death. In Mark 10:38-39 and Luke 12:50, Jesus spoke of His death as a baptism. So whether the baptism is good or bad depends on the context. In the context of Matthew 3, the baptism is both good and bad. It’s good for the repentant, but bad for the unrepentant. The repentant will be given the Holy Spirit while the unrepentant will be judged.

Additionally, Jesus statements seems to refer to judgment and salvation when the Pharisees rejected John’s baptism. See Luke 7:29. The Pharisees in rejecting John’s baptism was tantamount to rejecting Jesus’ preaching The people believed Jesus preaching because they were baptized by John, and the Pharisee rejected Jesus’ preaching because they rejected John’s baptism.

Additionally, see Matthew 21:31-32 and 43-44. Jesus notes the Jewish leaders who fail to respond to John’s message caused the tax collectors and prostitutes to “go before them into the kingdom”. These who follow John’s message and baptism leads on into the kingdom, while failure to believe John and his baptism hinders one from entering the Kingdom. The implication here is that believing John’s message leads one into the kingdom while failure to believe hinders him.

However as Jesus reveals in vs. 43-44, a rejection of Jesus teachings is more severe than the rejection of John’s. Because the rejection of Jesus preaching leads to the destruction of the city and causes the kingdom to bypass the Jewish leaders to another people.

Jesus' clear teaching in Mt. 21 and Luke 7 seem to indicate a dual interpretation of the one baptism of "the Holy Spirit and fire."

St John Chrysotom's take on the matter

"And having said that his own baptism was only with water, he next shows the excellence of that baptism which was brought by Christ, adding, He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and fire, signifying by the very metaphor which he uses the abundance of grace. For he says not, “ He shall give you the Holy Spirit,” but He shall baptize you. And again, by the addition of fire, he shows the power of grace. And as Christ calls the grace of the Spirit, water, meaning by water the purity resulting from it, and the abundant consolation which is brought to minds which are capable of receiving Him; so also John, by the word fire, expresses the fervor and uprightness of grace, as well as the consuming of sins."