Why I Am A Continuationist

[ARBITER01]

I woke up in the early hours and couldn't get back to sleep again, so I turned on my Voice Speak software and listening to a bit of "The Christian in Complete Armour" by William Gurnall. He was speaking about pride of gifts and pride of grace. He says that when someone is gifted and proud of it, the exercise of the gift [whatever it is] is tainted through the person's pride. As soon as a person announces, "I have a gift and you should listen to me", it should be seen as false, because it is pointing back to the gifted person and not to Christ. He said that the gifts are not for the self-grandizement of the gifted person, but for the building up of believers through faith in Christ. In other words the exercise of the gifts is not to build up our reputation of being at the cutting edge of what God is doing, but to bring us in humility to Christ. He said that a lesser gifted believer who is humble before God is much more acceptable to God than a highly gifted person who is proud of his gifting.

we can see this on Youtube where people give meaningless word salad prophecies to give the impression that they are favoured of God and point to themselves as prophets with an ear to His voice; and when they are corrected, they accuse the person correcting them of being either not hearing God's voice, being cessationist, or even having a demon (which actually happened in a meeting when a godly pastor tried to correct the false teacher). Pride of gift, especially with prophecy is shown when the person prophesying refuses to allow his prophetic words to be judged by others, and say that his prophecies are so clearly the voice of God that they don't need to be judged. Pride makes a person believe that they are so close to God, hearing His voice, that others must accept his authority, submit to him, and risk God's judgment on them if they dare "touch God's anointed" by criticising him. That is, "I have the anointing, therefore obey what I say". As soon as you hear this, avoid him because he has pride of gifts.

When your church is careful about who they invite and who they allow to speak, it won't have these problems.

There is no such thing as "an anointing" on any specific person. The real anointing is the indwelling Holy Spirit which we all received when we received Christ as our Saviour.

1881 Revised Version 1Sa 16:13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the spirit of the LORD came mightily upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

This is the OT shadow of truth that would become a Spiritual reality under the NT. Satan fights against a Christian hard to not achieve it.

 

[Carl Emerson]

When your church is careful about who they invite and who they allow to speak, it won't have these problems.



1881 Revised Version 1Sa 16:13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the spirit of the LORD came mightily upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

This is the OT shadow of truth that would become a Spiritual reality under the NT. Satan fights against a Christian hard to not achieve it.

John 1:32
And John testified, saying, “I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him.

And I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.’

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

When your church is careful about who they invite and who they allow to speak, it won't have these problems.



1881 Revised Version 1Sa 16:13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the spirit of the LORD came mightily upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

This is the OT shadow of truth that would become a Spiritual reality under the NT. Satan fights against a Christian hard to not achieve it.

Christian believers are already anointed to be kings and priests unto God, with Jesus Christ being our great high priest. Also the Spirit came mightily on the 120 on the day of Pentecost, and upon all those, exemplified in Acts, who were baptised in the Name of Jesus. Paul indicated in Galatians that we receive the Holy Spirit through faith in Christ. Also, Jesus said that He gave us authority to step on serpents and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy. This is what the New Testament anointing is all about. Therefore we are all anointed to go in the power of the Holy Spirit to make disciples for Christ, and we can know that signs and wonders will follow as we preach the Gospel of Christ.

The greatest sign and wonder in my view is when a hardened atheist is enlighted with the Gospel and turns to Christ as His Saviour. To me that is an absolute miracle, far greater than anything else that people think are signs and wonders.

This is why I don't recognise anyone who gets up and says that they are specially anointed to have more of the power of the Holy Spirit than the rest of us. Benny Hinn is merely kidding himself if he thinks that he is so anointed that no one is allowed to touch him. The fictitious "anointing" that some in the Kansas City prophets had, was used to have authority, power and dominion over the common "herd" and prophecy was used in a manipulative way to enforce that "anointed" authority.

Rather than seeing someone who moves in the power of the Holy Spirit in the particular gifting that the Holy Spirit has endowed him as specially "anointed", I would rather say that the man is gifted. We all have gifting. I am gifted to be a good church treasurer and expository Bible teacher, but that doesn't give me some kind of "anointed" authority over the others in my church. (Unless I say "Request Denied!" to someone asking for a reimbursement, or approval to purchase something on behalf of the church. For some reason they laugh at me and go and do it anyway and I have to reimburse them.) Also, when I give the expository teaching I say that this is how the passage speaks to me and if that encourages and inspires them, then I have fulfilled my purpose in the teaching of it. I never say that I am anointed and that God is speaking directly through me. I see that as arrogance on my part because I don't have the right to say that, even when I am quoting Scripture, because it is only the voice of God to a person when the Holy Spirit speaks directly to that person through the Scripture quote.

 

[ARBITER01]

John 1:32
And John testified, saying, “I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him.

And I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.’

What did Jesus say about it?....

Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he anointed me to preach good tidings to the poor: He hath sent me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised,

There's a reason why The Holy Spirit and the anointing were separate in the OT, it's the same in the NT. David didn't get the Holy Spirit upon him until after he had received the anointing from Samuel.

I'm not trying to change the topic, but Oscarr and his academic mind that strings 10 subjects together in one post opened the doors on this, and the truth needed to be spoken about it.

 

[ARBITER01]

Christian believers are already anointed to be kings and priests unto God, with Jesus Christ being our great high priest. Also the Spirit came mightily on the 120 on the day of Pentecost, and upon all those, exemplified in Acts, who were baptised in the Name of Jesus. Paul indicated in Galatians that we receive the Holy Spirit through faith in Christ. Also, Jesus said that He gave us authority to step on serpents and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy. This is what the New Testament anointing is all about. Therefore we are all anointed to go in the power of the Holy Spirit to make disciples for Christ, and we can know that signs and wonders will follow as we preach the Gospel of Christ.

The greatest sign and wonder in my view is when a hardened atheist is enlighted with the Gospel and turns to Christ as His Saviour. To me that is an absolute miracle, far greater than anything else that people think are signs and wonders.

This is why I don't recognise anyone who gets up and says that they are specially anointed to have more of the power of the Holy Spirit than the rest of us. Benny Hinn is merely kidding himself if he thinks that he is so anointed that no one is allowed to touch him. The fictitious "anointing" that some in the Kansas City prophets had, was used to have authority, power and dominion over the common "herd" and prophecy was used in a manipulative way to enforce that "anointed" authority.

Rather than seeing someone who moves in the power of the Holy Spirit in the particular gifting that the Holy Spirit has endowed him as specially "anointed", I would rather say that the man is gifted. We all have gifting. I am gifted to be a good church treasurer and expository Bible teacher, but that doesn't give me some kind of "anointed" authority over the others in my church. (Unless I say "Request Denied!" to someone asking for a reimbursement, or approval to purchase something on behalf of the church. For some reason they laugh at me and go and do it anyway and I have to reimburse them.) Also, when I give the expository teaching I say that this is how the passage speaks to me and if that encourages and inspires them, then I have fulfilled my purpose in the teaching of it. I never say that I am anointed and that God is speaking directly through me. I see that as arrogance on my part because I don't have the right to say that, even when I am quoting Scripture, because it is only the voice of God to a person when the Holy Spirit speaks directly to that person through the Scripture quote.

Once you calm your mind down and stop spitting out 10 subjects at once, we can talk.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Christian believers are already anointed to be kings and priests unto God, with Jesus Christ being our great high priest. Also the Spirit came mightily on the 120 on the day of Pentecost, and upon all those, exemplified in Acts, who were baptised in the Name of Jesus. Paul indicated in Galatians that we receive the Holy Spirit through faith in Christ. Also, Jesus said that He gave us authority to step on serpents and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy. This is what the New Testament anointing is all about. Therefore we are all anointed to go in the power of the Holy Spirit to make disciples for Christ, and we can know that signs and wonders will follow as we preach the Gospel of Christ.

The greatest sign and wonder in my view is when a hardened atheist is enlighted with the Gospel and turns to Christ as His Saviour. To me that is an absolute miracle, far greater than anything else that people think are signs and wonders.

This is why I don't recognise anyone who gets up and says that they are specially anointed to have more of the power of the Holy Spirit than the rest of us. Benny Hinn is merely kidding himself if he thinks that he is so anointed that no one is allowed to touch him. The fictitious "anointing" that some in the Kansas City prophets had, was used to have authority, power and dominion over the common "herd" and prophecy was used in a manipulative way to enforce that "anointed" authority.

Rather than seeing someone who moves in the power of the Holy Spirit in the particular gifting that the Holy Spirit has endowed him as specially "anointed", I would rather say that the man is gifted. We all have gifting. I am gifted to be a good church treasurer and expository Bible teacher, but that doesn't give me some kind of "anointed" authority over the others in my church. (Unless I say "Request Denied!" to someone asking for a reimbursement, or approval to purchase something on behalf of the church. For some reason they laugh at me and go and do it anyway and I have to reimburse them.) Also, when I give the expository teaching I say that this is how the passage speaks to me and if that encourages and inspires them, then I have fulfilled my purpose in the teaching of it. I never say that I am anointed and that God is speaking directly through me. I see that as arrogance on my part because I don't have the right to say that, even when I am quoting Scripture, because it is only the voice of God to a person when the Holy Spirit speaks directly to that person through the Scripture quote.

A common verse used to deflect any criticism of leadership is "do not touch the Lord's anointed..."

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Once you calm your mind down and stop spitting out 10 subjects at once, we can talk.

It is just a number of points to prove that no one has a special, superior anointing than any of us normal Spirit filled believers. It is that different people have different gifting enabling them to do their bit to build up the body of Christ as the Spirit directs.

 

[ARBITER01]

It is just a number of points to prove that no one has a special, superior anointing than any of us normal Spirit filled believers. It is that different people have different gifting enabling them to do their bit to build up the body of Christ as the Spirit directs.

I was going to try and relate my experience with this to you here, but this part of the forum is really not the best place to do that with all the unbelief against Spiritual things that tends to show up at times. I'll pm you.

 

[Carl Emerson]

A common verse used to deflect any criticism of leadership is "do not touch the Lord's anointed..."

I think a common reason for excesses to infiltrate the church is lack of attention to biblical structure for worship.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I was going to try and relate my experience with this to you here, but this part of the forum is really not the best place to do that with all the unbelief against Spiritual things that tends to show up at times. I'll pm you.

Could you add me to the PM - I promise to be good.

 

[ARBITER01]

Could you add me to the PM - I promise to be good.

Done.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Hello...

Lovely day in Auckland.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Looking back we can all see the excesses and call out the modern day circus.

How do we correct the structural error that has allowed this to happen?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

During the 1980s -90s a NAR prophet named Bob Jones went into different churches without invitation and gave prophecies and shared revelations that turned out to be false and caused churches to be seriously harmed and in some cases destroyed. Eventually he was discredited because it was discovered that he was sexually inappropriate with young women whom he invited into his counselling room. The tragedy was that these churches really thought he was a man of God and his prophecies and revelations were from God. This is the danger of accepting prophetic words and revelations from someone we don't know, and not searching the Scriptures whether they are of God or not. We now have another scandal with a prominent ministry in Kansas City where a leader leader, preacher and prophet has been discovered leading a double life for decades, grooming young women for sexual purposes, thus making all his prophecies and revelations tainted and therefore false. Imagine the shock of finding that three decades of prophecy and revelation was nothing but fiction and lies, coming from a fellow's sinful flesh and not from God at all. We would feel sorry for those godly people who thought he was of God and willingly obeyed the directive prophecies, when all the time they were following lies and deceit.

I agree that it would be emotionally upsetting, a shock to the system, if one had believed that some specific man was a servant of God inspired by God to bring messages from God to you, only to find out that he was a sexual predator. And that all of his predictions and all of his messages were made up. What I wonder is if any modern prophet or any modern claimant to being an apostle or a messenger from God is credible, who could endure a proper test of credibility, who could face up to proper examination and scrutiny?

There is a whole community of television preachers who claim to speak for God, who have a message that they say has come from God, and that they are delivering to us in the end to us in these closing days of the last days. Could any of those men endure a proper examination and scrutiny?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

When your church is careful about who they invite and who they allow to speak, it won't have these problems.



1881 Revised Version 1Sa 16:13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the spirit of the LORD came mightily upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

This is the OT shadow of truth that would become a Spiritual reality under the NT. Satan fights against a Christian hard to not achieve it.

The lesson in first Samuel chapter 16 seems to be mainly about not taking outward appearance as a guarantee of God's inward presence. The passage that includes verse 13 starts with verse 6. It says this, "when they had arrived, he caught sight of Eliab and thought 'surely the Lord's anointed one stands there before him' but the Lord said to Samuel, take no notice of his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. God does not see a man as a man sees. Man looks at appearances, but the Lord looks at the heart."

In the Catholic Church, when a priest is chosen, and he is chosen, the process takes a long time. First the man says he has a calling from God that he should become a priest. Next his own priest and eventually the bishop examine him to see if he is suitable for the role. Then he spends several years in training to become a priest. And those who train him constantly examine him to see if his calling is true. Then he is examined by the bishop and by a body of priests to see if his calling is true. And when all human authority and wisdom with the guidance of the Holy Spirit has completed the process of testing and checking the truth of his calling. The final step is to put him to the test; to send him out to work with a priest for a year or two as an assistant and at the end of that time there is a report to say whether his calling is true. Thus, human watchfulness pray, many prayers, and the work of the Holy Spirit. conspire together test and to prove a claim to be called by God to Be a priest.

Now, if all of this effort is put in to test a man who is called to the priesthood and whose role will be to shepherd the flock of God under his care, how much more work would be needed to look for and test a man who claimed to be a prophet of God, bearing the message of God. inspired by the Holy Spirit, and normative for the whole of humanity. It is not enough that the elders in one particular church approve of a message. It is not enough that many elders or many churches would approve of such messages. What is required is something greater, just as the apostles were trained by Jesus Christ for about three years, and just as they endured persecutions and hardship and injustice, and just as they were practically involved in the preaching of the message, so all of these things would be necessary for any person, any man, who claimed to be a prophet. The claim would not be credible if they just said, "I am a prophet of God".

 

[ARBITER01]

The lesson in first Samuel chapter 16 seems to be mainly about not taking outward appearance as a guarantee of God's inward presence. The passage that includes verse 13 starts with verse 6. It says this, "when they had arrived, he caught sight of Eliab and thought 'surely the Lord's anointed one stands there before him' but the Lord said to Samuel, take no notice of his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. God does not see a man as a man sees. Man looks at appearances, but the Lord looks at the heart."

In the Catholic Church, when a priest is chosen, and he is chosen, the process takes a long time. First the man says he has a calling from God that he should become a priest. Next his own priest and eventually the bishop examine him to see if he is suitable for the role. Then he spends several years in training to become a priest. And those who train him constantly examine him to see if his calling is true. Then he is examined by the bishop and by a body of priests to see if his calling is true. And when all human authority and wisdom with the guidance of the Holy Spirit has completed the process of testing and checking the truth of his calling. The final step is to put him to the test; to send him out to work with a priest for a year or two as an assistant and at the end of that time there is a report to say whether his calling is true. Thus, human watchfulness pray, many prayers, and the work of the Holy Spirit. conspire together test and to prove a claim to be called by God to Be a priest.

Now, if all of this effort is put in to test a man who is called to the priesthood and whose role will be to shepherd the flock of God under his care, how much more work would be needed to look for and test a man who claimed to be a prophet of God, bearing the message of God. inspired by the Holy Spirit, and normative for the whole of humanity. It is not enough that the elders in one particular church approve of a message. It is not enough that many elders or many churches would approve of such messages. What is required is something greater, just as the apostles were trained by Jesus Christ for about three years, and just as they endured persecutions and hardship and injustice, and just as they were practically involved in the preaching of the message, so all of these things would be necessary for any person, any man, who claimed to be a prophet. The claim would not be credible if they just said, "I am a prophet of God".

How did they know Jesus was a prophet?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

How did they know Jesus was a prophet?

God spoke from Heaven and bore him witness.

 

[ARBITER01]

God spoke from Heaven and bore him witness.

And I suspect GOD performing all the powerful miracles through Him constantly also tended to validate Him.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

And I suspect GOD performing all the powerful miracles through Him constantly also tended to validate Him.

The miracles that Jesus performed were seen by many. There were many witnesses. Including his enemies, who couldn't deny that they were genuine miracles.

Today's prophets have no voice from heaven bearing them testimony.

 

[ARBITER01]

The miracles that Jesus performed were seen by many. There were many witnesses. Including his enemies, who couldn't deny that they were genuine miracles.

Today's prophets have no voice from heaven bearing them testimony.

I agree.

I don't accept someone calling themselves a prophet unless GOD is witnessing to their ministry like He did for Jesus. I don't accept someone on just their words.