once saved always saved

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ZoneChaos

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What is at issue is that you (the OSAS preacher) told this fellow that he was saved and nothing would ever change that. Now, however, you look at his life and judge that he has never been saved. Now, he believes he is saved and nothing could change that because of your teaching.

Hmm..

A preacher has only the right to teach a person how to bet saved. Only God has the right to say "You are saved"

The preacher will preach that once you are saved you alwasy will be, but only God tells you you are saved.

And when that same preacher loks at his life, or any christian for that matter, and sees the guy not living the life of a christian., it is the duty of that christian to question his salvation.. and to find out why is is behaving the way he is, and maybe let him know that he really isn't saved like he thought he was.

Now, when you witnessed to him while he was in the ditch, he told you he was saved. He believes it. You shake your head sadly and think, "What a loser. He's never been saved. It was all fake." [/quote\]

First.. never have the attitude of "He's a loser."

Second, him believing he was saved was a trick of Satan, and b noticing that Christ was not in his life, you can then let him know he was wrong, and that he was not saved, and then begin to lead him to what being saved really is: freedom from whatever is keeping him in the ditch through Jesus Christ.

Your teaching is sending this fellow t

This is an ill-founded remark.

OSAS in not a "teaching". Salvation is a teaching...

See, you don't believe he is saved.
I don't believe he is saved.

Then I would say it is safe to confront him about it and let him know he isn't.

Yet you told him he was saved and that that would never change.

Not so. Only God can do this. "If you beleive, then you are saved" is what is taight. Not "if you do this you will be saved".

The first is a Faith teaching, the second is a work.

You've lied to him then, since now that circumstances have changed, you've changed your doctrine.
[/quot]

Doctrine hasn't changed. When a person is saved, they alwasy will be. When a person actas or thinks they are saved, they might not be.. depending on wether they truly believed or not.

Which do you believe, then? That a person who gets saved is saved

Yes.

that a person gets saved until circumstances belie that they were ever saved?
No. Though I would change it to read "that a person thinks they are saved..."

(recall, please, that "you" is the feller from church who witnessed to the once-saved-drunkard. It's not personal.

And is it obvious from his life he isn't saed? If so then he was not "once saved".

Have a Jesus-filled day!

I am not sure if this was meant to saoften the post you made, but there ar a couple of things in your post that are rather harsh...
 
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edpobre

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savinggrc,

You wrote:
Salvation? No, we are positionally saved, not literally saved. We have not yet realized our salvation. We are saved from God's wrath which has not yet been poured out. We will realize that salvation when we die or when we are caught up to meet Him in the air at His coming.

As far as being separated from the love of God - God loved us when we were yet sinners - His love doesn't change whether we're living for Him or whether we're living for ourselves. That verse is not a "guarantee" of salvation, it's a simple statement of fact. God loves us and nothing will ever change that.

On salvation, I agree with you 100%. But that "position" may change BEFORE one dies or BEFORE the end of the world. One may be safe from condemnation for as long as he believes Jesus and obeys his commands (enduring till the end - Matt. 24:13). But when one stops believing Jesus and obeying his commands, he becomes like a branch that is cut-off from the vine. He is withered and gathered and thrown into the fire.

On love of God, I agree to some extent. While it's true that God loves the world so much that He gave His son to die for us while we were yet sinners, it is also TRUE that APART from Christ, one does NOT have God nor does he have hope in the world (Eph. 2:12).

The love of God ABIDES only in those who are IN UNION with Christ. But the invitation to come to the knowledge of the truth and be saved is always open to evryone.

Ed
 
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BlalronResurrected

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Matthew 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

If you have truly been saved, you will keep his commandments. If you don't, then you haven't truly been saved.

1 John 2:4-6 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

But whosoever keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.




 
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LouisBooth

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"And apparently you don't always know by their 'fruit'. "

That's right DA. We are human and don't know other people's "hearts" or their real thoughts. Only God does. Someone can do all the good works they want and still might not be saved. I can make a paper apple that might look like a real one and only after you try to bite into it will you know its a fake. I do find that if you hang around someone long enough, you will find out...like the old saying goes, YOu can fool some of the people some of the time..but not all of the people all of the time. :)
 
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Die Allerbeste

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Round and round we go...

You just can't admit it, can you Louis? You just can't admit that you don't know what might be going on between this god of yours and another person.

It appears to me that the prayer request to be delivered from pride and self-righteousness has been rather ineffective. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\">
 
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ZoneChaos

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By a persons fruit you can tell if they are a Christian.

BU tthis is not 100% surety.. that only exists between them and God.

I never said I can know a persons heart. I said I can look at the fruit of thier life and make an educated guess, based upon their exmaple, but I canot know thier heart.

Maybe I should have been more clear, but I assumed that was understood.
 
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edpobre

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Friends,

How can one bear fruits of righteousness unless one is connected to the vine as a branch? Jesus says that by ourselves, we can do nothing.

Jesus likens TRUE Christians to branches that are attached to him as the vine just as TRUE Christians are IN UNION with Christ by being members of Christ's BODY, the CHURCH. And Christ is the HEAD of the BODY, the church.

Being BORN AGAIN means being ADDED to the BODY or church of Christ where there is redemption through Christ's blood, the forgiveness of sins.

ONCE you are INSIDE the BODY of Christ and REMAIN connected to Christ, the HEAD of the body, UNTIL the end of your life or the end of the world, you are SAVED.

However, in the meantime that you are alive and you return to your WICKED ways INSPITE of repeated admonitions to RENEW your life in accordance with God's LAWS, you are let LOOSE from God's COMMANDS and EXPELLED from the BODY like a branch that is cut off from the vine.

That's how one LOSES his salvation.

Ed
 
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Die Allerbeste

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Actually, Louis, I was speaking more in a general sense than about me, personally.
But if you believe he doesn't exsist they really can't be anything going on now could there?
So God's power is limited? You mean he can't work in the life of someone who doesn't believe he exists? So you are of the opinion that all Atheists are lost causes, and can never be saved?
 
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