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once saved always saved

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by Die Allerbeste, Dec 4, 2001.

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  1. ZoneChaos

    ZoneChaos Senior Veteran

    +23
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    Hmm..

    A preacher has only the right to teach a person how to bet saved. Only God has the right to say "You are saved"

    The preacher will preach that once you are saved you alwasy will be, but only God tells you you are saved.

    And when that same preacher loks at his life, or any christian for that matter, and sees the guy not living the life of a christian., it is the duty of that christian to question his salvation.. and to find out why is is behaving the way he is, and maybe let him know that he really isn't saved like he thought he was.

    This is an ill-founded remark.

    OSAS in not a "teaching". Salvation is a teaching...

    Then I would say it is safe to confront him about it and let him know he isn't.

    Not so. Only God can do this. "If you beleive, then you are saved" is what is taight. Not "if you do this you will be saved".

    The first is a Faith teaching, the second is a work.

    Yes.

    No. Though I would change it to read "that a person thinks they are saved..."

    And is it obvious from his life he isn't saed? If so then he was not "once saved".

    I am not sure if this was meant to saoften the post you made, but there ar a couple of things in your post that are rather harsh...
     
  2. Die Allerbeste

    Die Allerbeste Guest

    +0
    Sorta blows the whole "I KNOW when someone is REALLY saved" argument out of the water, doesn't it?
     
  3. ZoneChaos

    ZoneChaos Senior Veteran

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    Yes, Da. Only Gd knows.. When can get a god idea based upon thier life, and how they live it.. but only and that person knows for sure.
     
  4. Die Allerbeste

    Die Allerbeste Guest

    +0
    That's been my point all along. YOU don't know! And apparently you don't always know by their 'fruit'. ;)
     
  5. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +37
    savinggrc,

    You wrote:
    On salvation, I agree with you 100%. But that "position" may change BEFORE one dies or BEFORE the end of the world. One may be safe from condemnation for as long as he believes Jesus and obeys his commands (enduring till the end - Matt. 24:13). But when one stops believing Jesus and obeying his commands, he becomes like a branch that is cut-off from the vine. He is withered and gathered and thrown into the fire.

    On love of God, I agree to some extent. While it's true that God loves the world so much that He gave His son to die for us while we were yet sinners, it is also TRUE that APART from Christ, one does NOT have God nor does he have hope in the world (Eph. 2:12).

    The love of God ABIDES only in those who are IN UNION with Christ. But the invitation to come to the knowledge of the truth and be saved is always open to evryone.

    Ed
     
  6. PrinceJeff

    PrinceJeff Well-Known Member

    +0
    Oh my Ed posted something accurate for once. It's the apocalypse! :lol:
     
  7. Matthew 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

    If you have truly been saved, you will keep his commandments. If you don't, then you haven't truly been saved.

    1 John 2:4-6 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    But whosoever keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

    He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.




     
  8. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
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    "And apparently you don't always know by their 'fruit'. "

    That's right DA. We are human and don't know other people's "hearts" or their real thoughts. Only God does. Someone can do all the good works they want and still might not be saved. I can make a paper apple that might look like a real one and only after you try to bite into it will you know its a fake. I do find that if you hang around someone long enough, you will find out...like the old saying goes, YOu can fool some of the people some of the time..but not all of the people all of the time. :)
     
  9. Die Allerbeste

    Die Allerbeste Guest

    +0
    Louis, it seems I've been saying something along those very lines for... months. :p
     
  10. ZoneChaos

    ZoneChaos Senior Veteran

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    So there's no problem then? we agree? :)
     
  11. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    Good so DA you agree that one saved always saved then ;)
     
  12. Die Allerbeste

    Die Allerbeste Guest

    +0
    We agree that you don't know the difference between someone who is a 'real' Christian, and one who (according to you) isn't. You've both said, on more than one occasion, that you will know then by their 'fruit'. Looks like some of that fruit went bad. :lol:
     
  13. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    exactly, I would say there were never the right kind of tree to begin with :)
     
  14. Die Allerbeste

    Die Allerbeste Guest

    +0
    Round and round we go...

    You just can't admit it, can you Louis? You just can't admit that you don't know what might be going on between this god of yours and another person.

    It appears to me that the prayer request to be delivered from pride and self-righteousness has been rather ineffective. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\">
     
  15. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    I don't claim that no. But if you believe he doesn't exsist they really can't be anything going on now could there?
     
  16. ZoneChaos

    ZoneChaos Senior Veteran

    +23
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    By a persons fruit you can tell if they are a Christian.

    BU tthis is not 100% surety.. that only exists between them and God.

    I never said I can know a persons heart. I said I can look at the fruit of thier life and make an educated guess, based upon their exmaple, but I canot know thier heart.

    Maybe I should have been more clear, but I assumed that was understood.
     
  17. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +37
    Friends,

    How can one bear fruits of righteousness unless one is connected to the vine as a branch? Jesus says that by ourselves, we can do nothing.

    Jesus likens TRUE Christians to branches that are attached to him as the vine just as TRUE Christians are IN UNION with Christ by being members of Christ's BODY, the CHURCH. And Christ is the HEAD of the BODY, the church.

    Being BORN AGAIN means being ADDED to the BODY or church of Christ where there is redemption through Christ's blood, the forgiveness of sins.

    ONCE you are INSIDE the BODY of Christ and REMAIN connected to Christ, the HEAD of the body, UNTIL the end of your life or the end of the world, you are SAVED.

    However, in the meantime that you are alive and you return to your WICKED ways INSPITE of repeated admonitions to RENEW your life in accordance with God's LAWS, you are let LOOSE from God's COMMANDS and EXPELLED from the BODY like a branch that is cut off from the vine.

    That's how one LOSES his salvation.

    Ed
     
  18. Die Allerbeste

    Die Allerbeste Guest

    +0
    Actually, Louis, I was speaking more in a general sense than about me, personally.
    So God's power is limited? You mean he can't work in the life of someone who doesn't believe he exists? So you are of the opinion that all Atheists are lost causes, and can never be saved?
     
  19. Die Allerbeste

    Die Allerbeste Guest

    +0
    Right! Same point I've been trying to make for months. :)
     
  20. ZoneChaos

    ZoneChaos Senior Veteran

    +23
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    DA the point you have been making is that no one is secure in their salvation. To this I whole-heartily disagree.
     
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