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once saved always saved

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by Die Allerbeste, Dec 4, 2001.

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  1. PrinceJeff

    PrinceJeff Well-Known Member

    +0
    The devil is not fooling us Archieve.

    And nobody said EVERYONE is saved and going to heaven.

    And you are right false teachers will get theirs in the end. (Ed)
     
  2. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +37
    Friends,

    Being born again is being created again as a one new man with Jesus as HEAD and YOU as part of his BODY, the CHURCH (Eph. 2:15; Col. 1:1:cool: .

    Of course, BEFORE you can be born again, you have to be BOUND by the TRUTH. That means you have to hear the TRUE gospel (of course, you can only hear the TRUE gospel from TRUE preachers SENT by God), BELIEVE what you hear and get BAPTIZED (to be ADDED) into the TRUE church of Christ (the Iglesia Ni Cristo) in these last days.

    Once INSIDE the church, you are IN UNION with Christ as your HEAD and you are no longer condemned. For as long as you are CONNECTED to Christ as member of HIS body, you are SAVED no matter what happens. INSIDE the BODY or church of Christ, the new man (you) is expected to RENEW his life as a new creation and acquire the mind of Jesus - humble and obedient.

    However, once you go back to your wicked ways and are SEPARATED from the VINE (you are EXPELLED from the church - 1 Cor. 5:12-13), you become APART from Christ - WITHOUT God and WITHOUT hope in the world (Eph. 2:12).

    Ed
     
  3. nevetstrebla

    nevetstrebla Guest

    +0
    Please explain:

    For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    If we can lose our salvation then how do you explain this verse which tells us that nothing can separate us from the love of Jesus?
     
  4. ZoneChaos

    ZoneChaos Senior Veteran

    +23
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    Accepting Him as Lord and God

    Which i nothing more than becoming a Christian.

    Lie. Babtism is not required for salvation.. it is a desire a Christian has after, and is commanded of every Christian to do, but not require for salvation.

    Baptism will not get you into Heaven.

    And, the "True Church of Christ" is not the man made institution of the INC. he "true Chruch of Chrsit" is everyone who asked Jesus to come into their life.

    The True Chruch of Christ, was and has been around, since Adam, and long before the INC was dreamed up.

    The Church existed in the OT, and the NT, through out the darkages, and through to today.
     
  5. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "Being born again is being created again as a one new man with Jesus as HEAD and YOU as part of his BODY, the CHURCH (Eph. 2:15; Col. 1:1 ."

    Um...ed so when a man says, "I am the head of the household." do you think he's a read head? That's wack man...real wack.

    "of course, you can only hear the TRUE gospel from TRUE preachers SENT by God"

    Yup, and that's everyone :)

    There is nothing that can seperate you from the church or christ's love, that is very clearly said in scripture. Once you are a TRUE believer, you will never loose your salvation.
     
  6. savinggrc

    savinggrc Guest

    +0
    So, you'll just reject those years when the fruits of the Spirit were so evident in his life? He was a strong witness for the Lord. He loved going to church, being around God's people, singing the songs of Zion, etc... then he was saved and could never be unsaved.

    Now, he's turned away from God - you say he was never saved to begin with - but you let him teach Sunday School with impressionable young children - children who are going to grow up and have him as their role model. And you're gonna tell them, "He was never saved to begin with." Or, "he never understood it, it was all knowledge no heart." Yet, those kids knew his love for them and for Jesus because they experienced it every single Sunday for years.


    Do you not see the perverseness of the teaching? The hypocrisy of it? The church, the pastor, the deacon who discipled him - every single one of them assured him that he was really saved and that he could never be unsaved. But now, when he's turned away from God, totally unrepentant, you say he was never saved to begin with!!!! :eek: That's scary and I am ashamed to admit that I once taught such and said such things myself. It took a mighty work of God for me to let go of that doctrine (commandment of men).

    Karen
     
  7. ZoneChaos

    ZoneChaos Senior Veteran

    +23
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    Answer me, how can someone who knows the truth, reject that truth for a lie he knows to be a lie?

    That is what you are saying.

    Have oyu ever met anone who did the things you describe above, and then go on a reject God?

    Also, people can talk the talk pretty well.. and appear, to even themselves, that they are saved.. but they are foling themselves, becassu they truly don't beleive in what they do.
     
  8. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +37
    Nevetstrebla,

    The verse does NOT say "nothing can separate us from the love of Jesus." That's SUBSTITUTING Jesus for God which is FALSE and a MISREPRESENTATION.

    Anyway, apostle Paul was talking to people who are INSIDE or MEMBERS of the church of Christ. What apostle Paul means by this is that the "love of God is IN Christ Jesus" and as long as they are MEMBERS and INSIDE the BODY of Christ, they remain IN UNION with Christ and the "love of God" ABIDES in them.

    Remember what God says in Eph. 2:12. "APART from Christ...you are WITHOUT God and WITHOUT hope in the world."

    Ed
     
  9. savinggrc

    savinggrc Guest

    +0
    I've known several people who have turned completely away from God.

    Why they did it and continue to do it is beyond me, but they have, nonetheless.

    Salvation? No, we are positionally saved, not literally saved. We have not yet realized our salvation. We are saved from God's wrath which has not yet been poured out. We will realize that salvation when we die or when we are caught up to meet Him in the air at His coming. :)

    As far as being separated from the love of God - God loved us when we were yet sinners - His love doesn't change whether we're living for Him or whether we're living for ourselves. That verse is not a "guarantee" of salvation, it's a simple statement of fact. God loves us and nothing will ever change that.

    Karen
     
  10. nevetstrebla

    nevetstrebla Guest

    +0
    According to scripture we are saved the very second that we put our faith in Jesus.

    Ephesians 1:13

    In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

    How long are we sealed?

    Ephesians 4:30

    And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

    Our salvation does not begin at death. We are clearly saved from the point that we accept Christ. Furthermore, we are saved until the day of redemption---forever.
     
  11. Blackhawk

    Blackhawk Monkey Boy

    +72
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    US-Republican
    nevetstrebla,

    AMEN! God is God of grace and Faithfulness!
     
  12. drmmjr

    drmmjr Regular Member

    459
    +7
    Christian
    One way to look at salvation.

    Imagine we are in a ship at sea (Garden of Eden). The ship sinks (Adam sins). We are then in the sea (sin) and in danger of drowning (being cast into the lake of fire at Judgement).

    Low and behold, a rescue ship appears (Jesus is born). A life line is thrown to you (Jesus crucified and resurrected). You grab the life line (Accept Jesus and baptized).

    In a sense, at that time you are "saved". But a better term should probably be "rescued", because until you have been pulled into the boat (Resurrection and New Jerusalem), there is still a chance that you may not be able to hold onto the life line.
     
  13. Blackhawk

    Blackhawk Monkey Boy

    +72
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    US-Republican
    drmmjr,

    "In a sense, at that time you are "saved". But a better term should probably be "rescued", because until you have been pulled into the boat (Resurrection and New Jerusalem), there is still a chance that you may not be able to hold onto the life line."

    We have nothig to do with our salvation. Yes we have to accept His gift but that is not a work. Faith is not a work. jesus did the work. Really a better example would be that God came off of the boat and swam out under His own power and held out His hand for us to grab. Once we grab the hand we can't be torn from Him. Because He is holding us not us holding Him.

    here are some verses to think about.

    Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    Rom 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels , nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
    Rom 8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    Rom 3:10 as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
    Rom 3:11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;

    om 3:19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become
    accountable to God;
    Rom 3:20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
    Rom 3:21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
    Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;
    Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
    Rom 3:24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
    Rom 3:25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He
    passed over the sins previously committed;
    Rom 3:26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
    Rom 3:27 Where then is boasting ? It is excluded. By what kind of law ? Of works ? No, but by a law of faith.
    Rom 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

    Blackhaw
     
  14. ZoneChaos

    ZoneChaos Senior Veteran

    +23
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    Drmmjr.. the problem with your anlogy is that it relies party on us to save our selves. We don't and will never have that power.
     
  15. PrinceJeff

    PrinceJeff Well-Known Member

    +0
    And I am proud to be a Christian, where at least I know I'm free. And I won't forget the Lord who died that gave Salvation to me.
     
  16. drmmjr

    drmmjr Regular Member

    459
    +7
    Christian
    ZoneChaos,

    I'll aggree that we don't have the power to save ourselves. But we have to make the descision to accept the saving grace of God. In that sense, we are grabbing the life line.

    The salvation is there, but if we don't make the move to take it, then it does us no good. Likewise, if we turn away from that salvation, we loose it. It's still there for us to go back to, but unless we make the descision, we won't have it.

    Blackhaw6,

    In my analogy, grabing the line represented a person realizing they were a sinner and needed to accept Jesus as their savior. Not that they were saving themselves by their own power. Although, by making that descision they do save themselves through Jesus.

    Even though someone would turn away from salvation, that doesn't mean that God ceases to love them, or ceases to want to give them salvation. But since man was created with free will, God leaves the choice of accepting His gift.
     
  17. ZoneChaos

    ZoneChaos Senior Veteran

    +23
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    And as I stated above.. once you were being pulled in by the life line of Jesus Chrsit.. why would you reach into your pocket and cut the rope?

    What you said above I would only apply to those in the water that cannot or do not want to see the salvation waiting for them.
     
  18. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    saving..

    "So, you'll just reject those years when the fruits of the Spirit were so evident in his life? "

    So? I have seen people produce the "fruits of the spirit" that weren't christians. it takes more then good works to give ya into heaven...then again it doesn't ;)

    "Yet, those kids knew his love for them and for Jesus because they experienced it every single Sunday for years. "

    Do you know that passage that says many called Lord Lord.....and another passage that says we drove out deamons in your name and God says depart from me I never knew you...is this any different??
     
  19. Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
     
  20. savinggrc

    savinggrc Guest

    +0
    Oh, I know Louis, that there are 'False Fruits" and that not all who name the Name of the Lord are saved. That's not at issue here.

    What is at issue is that you (the OSAS preacher) told this fellow that he was saved and nothing would ever change that. Now, however, you look at his life and judge that he has never been saved. Now, he believes he is saved and nothing could change that because of your teaching.

    Now, when you witnessed to him while he was in the ditch, he told you he was saved. He believes it. You shake your head sadly and think, "What a loser. He's never been saved. It was all fake."

    Your teaching is sending this fellow to hell.

    See, you don't believe he is saved.
    I don't believe he is saved.

    Yet you told him he was saved and that that would never change.
    You've lied to him then, since now that circumstances have changed, you've changed your doctrine.
    Which do you believe, then? That a person who gets saved is saved forever? or that a person gets saved until circumstances belie that they were ever saved?

    (recall, please, that "you" is the feller from church who witnessed to the once-saved-drunkard. It's not personal. :) )

    Have a Jesus-filled day!
    Karen
     
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