"Those holding to "predestined-election" view men as helpless pawns, adrift in the flow of Divine direction. "
I think you have a flawed view of predestination... you're thinking of predeterminism, very different things.
Actually, "predestinationism", "predeterminism",
"tomato" "tomahto". PREDESTINED-ELECTION simply states that God has created some for salvation, these He will cause to be saved, irresistably. The rest He has created for eternal damnation, these He fully intends to perish in Hell no-matter-what. THUS, the "helpless pawns adrift in the flow of Divine direction".
"Or more to the point, is "faith-unto-salvation" travelling in the direction from GOD-TO-MAN, or does it move from MAN-TOWARD-GOD? "
I would say it's all God. Romans 3:3 for example (just one of many).
"But---we are not saved by grace. "
Umm..just by grace through faith..now where does that faith come from? God. See Eph 2:8
Allow me to "cut-and-paste" a bit of my book:
Ephesians 2:8 This is simply a misunderstanding of what Paul says. What word does "THAT" modify? "Grace", or "faith"? If it is "faith", meaning, "faith-unto-salvation" is a
unilateral gift from God, then there is an absolute contradiction with another of Paul's letters, specifically Romans 10:17. Which says, "Faith COMES BY HEARING". Which is it---does God give us faith-unto-salvation, or does faith-unto-salvation
come by hearing (and hearing by the word of God)? Consider also the structure of the verse:
````````````````````that <subject> is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God
For by grace have you been saved through faith {
.............................`<subject is> not as a result of works lest anyone boast
"Through Faith" in the Greek is "Dia Pistis", which is a
prepositional phrase. What is the
subject of this sentence? Is it "grace" (God's free gift of salvation)? Or is it "faith"? The subject is clearly "grace", so that all three modifiers (the prepositional phrase "THROUGH FAITH" and the two other phrases) all point to the subject, "saving grace". It is nonsensical to contend that the word, "THAT", is "FAITH".
Ephesians 2:8 is properly understood to have been written as: "For by grace are you saved through faith, and grace is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God". Let's not forget 1Pet1:9, "Obtaining as the outcome of
YOUR faith the salvation of your souls". Furthermore, the definition of "Faith", from the Greek (from Strong's Concordance), is: "
Pistis--- a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God". Conviction? Is that installed by God in our hearts? Or is that our heart's response on recognizing the validity of the Gospel? The clear understanding here is the latter
"If we believe, then later disbelieve, it is not God who has lied. "
yeah it is. this means we loose our salvation and that is not biblilcally correct. God provides for our salvation. It is a done deal at the moment of converstion. It's irrevocable as romans 11:29 says it is. God's call can't be repented of. You simply can't loose your salvation, that's what the scripture says in My opinion.
You cannot "lose" your salvation. It is absolutely irrevokable. Now that we agree on that, please show me a verse that says "salvation is not rejectable"???
Peter's "warnings" are an encouragement to be strong and run the race, just as much as a person walking a tightrope is thinking..don't look down ...don't look down. Its about sanctification, not salvation. Don't be an ineffective christian.
I'm glad you accept Peter's letters as valid, rather than dismissing them from "dispensationalism". But to contend they do not speak of "falling from salvation"? Please help me to understand how the "ontos-apofuego-truly-saved", who are "enticed-by-the-false-ones", who after "having-epignosis-right-and-true-knowledge-of-the-LORD-and-SAVIOR Jesus Christ", then "become entangled again in the defilements of the world and overcome"------please help me to see your understanding of how they either "did-not-really-forfeit-salvation", OR "were-never-saved-in-the-first-place" (careful, if you choose the latter, you hafta deal with 2:1:4 as well)...