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Omniscience

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by WordSword, Apr 14, 2021.

  1. TedT

    TedT Member since Job 38:7

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    FreeGrace2 said:
    What is the basis for being chosen for salvation?

    GOD does not desire nor take pleasure in the death and damnation of anyone...your willingness to contradict the scripture about this is too Calvinistic for me.

    HIS does all for his own pleasure so HIS purpose and will cannot contradict what HE wants and what pleases HIM only man made doctrine.
     
  2. TedT

    TedT Member since Job 38:7

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    Prove it...
     
  3. TedT

    TedT Member since Job 38:7

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    ...but in your doctrine it was GOD who chose to make me in Adam as a sinner and not like Adam in innocence.

    False dichotomy.

    If the Judge sets it up so the man is a criminal and causes his crimes then yes, the judge is guilty. GOD did not do this...

    I my understanding our Judge is righteous because HE gave us the free will ability to be holy or to sin and we chose sin - HE did not choose us to become sinners for some purpose of HIS own, we chose to be sinners because we thought it was a good idea at the time.
    ---------------------------------------
    Light cannot create darkness.

    A good tree cannot put forth rotten fruit.
    A stream of life giving water cannot put forth salt or brackish water.
    GOODNESS cannot bring forth evil.
    Inherited sin or sin by the will of GOD is anathema.
    Can we say the same of the Judge at the County Courthouse who sentences one to death, or life in prison?
     
  4. TedT

    TedT Member since Job 38:7

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    I am done...I've said my bit. I don't like bickering...
     
  5. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Is God required to give you his purpose or reason?

    Demonstrate your view from the whole counsel of God.
     
  6. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    FreeGrace2 said:
    God gave Adam only 1 prohibition in the garden.
    The big difference is that Adam wasn't created sinful, but everyone born is sinful.

    Didn't apply to Adam.

    Nonsense. Read Gen 1:26,27. In v.26 we find 'asah', which means to make out of existing materials. Adam was formed from the dust of the ground.

    v.27 has "barah" which means to create out of nothing. So the 2 verses show that Adam's body was made, and his soul was created.

    To claim that God created Adam as "already sinful" is absurd.

    I'm not going to get into the details, but there is scientific evidence even now that living bone is an led (light emitting diode). It is entirely possible that Adam and Eve actually glowed. And when they sinned, they lost the glow, which revealed a changed body.

    So it wasn't about being too stupid to know they had no clothes on. Duh. Without a glow, they were left with nothing. That was their nakedness.

    OK. Your point?

    Where do you get this notion that Adam "was moved from Sheol into his human body"?? Sounds kinda weird.

    Adam was the first to sin, yes. But evil pre-existed Adam as you noted about Satan. So evil began with Satan.

    This is absurd. Then you are basically saying that God created sin.

    You need to study Gen 2:17 - but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when (the day) you eat from it you will certainly die.”

    Did Adam or the woman collapse and die physically when they ate the fruit? No, they didn't. What happened was they died spiritually. And lost their glow.

    That's when they became sinners. When they sinned. Not 1 millisecond before.
     
  7. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Not if in the nature of creation, it was the inevitable consequence of Adam's sin, like in the nature of creation, the inevitable consequence of going up is coming down--what goes up must come down.
    It's not a dichotomy, its a perfect parallel. . .show where it fails.
    Exactly, God did not "set up" Adam's sin, God did not "set up" the baked-in consequences of Adam's sin, and
    did not "set up" the "mutation" which Adam's progeny inherit.
    The Judge of the world is righteous because he is just; i.e., giving everyone his due.
    Agreed, Adam made us sinners by his rebellion.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
  8. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Could you point me to the verse that says election is to salvation? I've looked at every verse that has the Greek word that is commonly translated as "elect/election" and NONE of them mention salvation. I know it's a calvinist doctrine, but where does the Bible say election is for or to salvation?
    Then why do you defend their doctrine?

    That's the point. Election per Eph 1:4 is about believers who are chosen to be holy and blameless.

    btw, Jesus Christ Himself is described as being "the Chosen One" or "the Elect One" and He was never 'redeemed' in the first place.

    And Judas himself was chosen (elected) per John 6:70. And he wasn't saved.

    The whole nation (people) of Israel were a chosen nation and you cannot argue that every single Jew in the OT was saved. Not even close.
     
  9. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Matthew 22:30.

    Do you like to bicker?
     
  10. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    This refers to freedom from the law, not freedom of the will.
    And you know this, how?
    Angels are sons of God in the church (Hebrews 12:22-23).
    Don't know what book you got this fantasy from, but you certainly did not get it from the word of God written.
    That refers to the tares in the church, those whose faith is not genuine.
    Was that the call to judgment refused by the elect?

    That's quite a fantasy you've got there. . .nowhere found in the word of God written.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
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