Old Covenant -- vs -- New Covenant - and the same moral law of God in both

ac28

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I'm not denominationalized. However when I was physically filled to overflowing with the Holy Spirit, and all desire to sin was instantly gone, and the word of God became understandable with no contradictions, I was BORN AGAIN.

Being a preterist you probably have no ideal what I'm talking about.
Perhaps you'll show me in scripture where those experiences you had were indicative of being born again. Sounds to me like you were saved, which has nothing to do with being born again. Perhaps you can show me a instance where any Gentile in the Bible was said to be born again. You're either a Jew or a Gentile - not both.

I'm the exact opposite of a preterist. I KNOW that no prophecy has been fulfilled since the destruction of the temple in 70AD. Preterists falsely believe that some or all prophecy has been fulfilled. Everybody that falsely believes Israel's becoming a nation in 1948 fulfilled prophecy is a preterist, of sorts. Of course, there's no proof that ANY prophecy since 70AD has ever been fulfilled. Just a lot of reading between the lines and assumptions, both of which are unacceptable treatment concerning the Word of God. God does nothing under a bushel or in a closet. If He fulfills any scripture, everyone will know it happened and that He did it.
 
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sparow

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New Covenant does - as we see in Hebrews 8:6-12
And Old Covenant moral law applies to all the world -- as we see in Romans 3:19-20



New Covenant in "Old Testament" - reads like this

31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

Food for thought. Unchanged in the New Testament.


32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord.

Jesus is the one speaking there - according to Hebrews 8

33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.


I presume you disagree with what I said; I don't see Jeremiah disagreeing with me.

Hebrews on the other hand is not always considered universal scripture; it is one side of a personal communication where the writer quotes Jeremiah or Jesus to make points; and the point Hebrews seems to make is - it was not the Jews fault, the Law failed; which is nonsense.

“when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, " When Jeremiah said that the house of Israel and the house of Judah were separate entities; but prophesy was that Israel would be reconstituted and Jesus did this primarily by the twelve apostles. God has always been building a house called the House of Israel and it is not completed until Jesus returns and it is the new Jerusalem with only twelve gates for the twelve tribes.

Jeremiah 31:4 (NKJV)
4 Again I will build you, and you shall be rebuilt, O virgin of Israel! You shall again be adorned with your tambourines, And shall go forth in the dances of those who rejoice.

“I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." This not new, it is what has happened before happening again; I think it is in Deuteronomy where it says Israel knew the Law without being taught but they would have to teach their descendants.

The covenant was always renewed each time a remnant came out and each time the covenant could have been called new. What makes the last renewal of the covenant special is the God who made it is now mediator of it, among other things.
 
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1stcenturylady

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No one in history has ever been under the New Covenant. If you haven't had those gifts like in Ac 2 or if you're a Jew that's been able to keep the law easier, you haven't been affected by the New Covenant. According to Jeremiah and the Hebrew book of Hebrews, it's for Israel and it won't start until "after those days.'

Think what you like, but I do have many of the gifts and 100% of my prayers are instantly answered. You seem to have an extremely unscriptural doctrine. Was I right in thinking you are preterist, or are you alone in your doctrine?
 
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ac28

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I'm the exact opposite of a preterist. I KNOW that no prophecy has been fulfilled since the destruction of the temple in 70AD. Preterists falsely believe that some or all prophecy has been fulfilled. Everybody that falsely believes Israel's becoming a nation in 1948 fulfilled prophecy is a preterist. Of course, there's no proof that ANY prophecy since 70AD has ever been fulfilled. Just a lot of reading between the lines and assumptions, both of which are unacceptable treatment concerning the Word of God.
I presume you disagree with what I said; I don't see Jeremiah disagreeing with me.

Hebrews on the other hand is not always considered universal scripture; it is one side of a personal communication where the writer quotes Jeremiah or Jesus to make points; and the point Hebrews seems to make is - it was not the Jews fault, the Law failed; which is nonsense.

“when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, " When Jeremiah said that the house of Israel and the house of Judah were separate entities; but prophesy was that Israel would be reconstituted and Jesus did this primarily by the twelve apostles. God has always been building a house called the House of Israel and it is not completed until Jesus returns and it is the new Jerusalem with only twelve gates for the twelve tribes.

Jeremiah 31:4 (NKJV)
4 Again I will build you, and you shall be rebuilt, O virgin of Israel! You shall again be adorned with your tambourines, And shall go forth in the dances of those who rejoice.

“I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." This not new, it is what has happened before happening again; I think it is in Deuteronomy where it says Israel knew the Law without being taught but they would have to teach their descendants.

The covenant was always renewed each time a remnant came out and each time the covenant could have been called new. What makes the last renewal of the covenant special is the God who made it is now mediator of it, among other things.

All scripture, including Hebrews, is equally inspired. The black letters are just as much God's words as the red letters

I agree with you in some respects but there are only 2 covenants concerning Israel keeping the law, the Old and the New. Only these 2 are mentioned in Jer 31. I know of no renewals. The same promises to Israel were renewed to Issac, Jacob, and David, but not the law. Israel, probably with no exceptions, was never able to keep the law, on their own, under the Old Covenant. The entire purpose of the New Covenant, as pretty well covered in Jer 31, was, through the Holy Spirit, to put the law in their inward parts, so that had the ability to totally keep the law and love doing it. At this point in time, just like the Great Commission, the New Covenant has NEVER been put into effect. The Gentiles will never have to keep the law, so it's extremely foolish to assume that any Gentile will EVER be associated with the New Covenant. Nowhere in the Bible is there a smoking gun verse that says that Gentiles have ANY part in the New Covenant. If it doesn't say it, it doesn't exist.

At least through the millennium, Israel will be under the law. We know this because, in Ezekiel, Israel is still making animal sacrifices in the millennium. Israel is not under the law during this 2000 year Gentile period we're in, because Israel was set aside in Ac 28:28, about 1950 years ago, and there is no Israel today, in God's eyes. Just look at how corrupt Israel is. There are essentially no Israelites there, no descendants of Jacob. It seems that most are Khazars. Also, the majority get their doctrine from the Satanic, evil Talmud, the same contemptible oral tradition that Jesus Christ condemned. The majority of the Jews today are no better, and probably much worse than the Pharisees. They either don't believe in God at all or they believe in the fake God of the Talmud. In any case, they are not God's people today, as prophesied in Hosea 1.
 
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sparow

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I know you think you're born again because you've probably been listening to a denominational preacher. With no exaggeration, about half of what all of those guys preach is not for us Gentiles, but only for Jews. Born again is one of those things. Unless you're a law-abiding, animal-sacrificing, Israelite who wants to enter the earthly, Jewish Kingdom of Heaven, ruled by Christ, who will then be located in Heaven, being born again is something you can't achieve. Also, since there is no Israel, today, in God's eyes, no one on the planet born after 70AD has ever been born again


If you are able to call your self Gentile then you are a foreigner to the kingdom of God and certainly not born again; some people call their conversion being born again; Jesus while not specifically answering the question implied being born again is associated with entering into the kingdom, the final resurrection and or translation and in this sense Jesus is the only one who has been born again.

If we are talking about blood lines Israel today numbers the sands of the sea, not that any would be pure breed. Jews as one of the twelve tribes number between 15000000 and 50000000 depending on which Jew is doing the counting; there are many descendants of Jews who Jews do not count as Jews mainly because their mothers are not Jews. The way I understand it to be a Jew ones mother has to be a Jew and if she marries a gentile the children are Jews and if after ten such marriages the last Jewess would have only one tenth Jewish blood.

The Israel of God will certainly have the blood link but not pure; they will be those called and chosen with some ex-gentiles who have been folded in.
 
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BobRyan

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I guess you missed the part in Heb 8 where the NC is given to the House of Israel and the House of Judah. I see nothing there that says it's for Gentiles. When the Bible is silent, we should be silent. Assumptions are one of Biblical truth's greatest enemies.

Rom 3 is explaining to Gentiles about Israel, vs 1. Nowhere does it say anything about Gentiles keeping the law, moral or otherwise. More assumptions. This moral law thing is something you've added to the scriptures. Of course, as Christians, we should try to live a moral life, but nowhere does it say that we MUST keep the 10 commandments or that we would lose out salvation if we went to church on Sunday, like some SDAs have conjured up out of thin air.

Since I am a Gentile, I would obey this verse below, written by Paul, the only apostle to us Gentiles, who, therefore, is the LAST WORD, when it comes to what we Gentiles should and shouldn't do, rather than listen to the 10 commandments, given ONLY to Israel, as is EVERYTHING in the Old Testament.

Sabbath rules for Gentiles are 100% man-made, unless you can find a verse that specially says that Gentiles must keep any sabbath, whether Saturday, Sunday, or Tuesdays at 11:17. I do realize that Israel's sabbath is on their 7th day, Saturday. However, since there is no Israel today, in God's eyes, who cares when their sabbath was, except for historical purposes.

Col 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

You MUST be born again to understand.

I am glad you get that part.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Is there a test to determine when one is born again and whether ones understanding is authentic?

The major thing that Adam did to the world was give us a fallen nature desiring all sorts of sins. Before I was born again I had gone to church for almost 30 years, 23 of which was in the SDA denomination, keeping all the commandments. None of my prayers were answered, and even though I was an obedient child to my parents, when I moved to Hollywood, CA I became very promiscuous and was part of the Hollywood "scene" seeing as I was in the entertainment industry for a long time. But in 1977 when I surrendered my life to Christ, and repented of all my sin, I was filled to overflowing with the Holy Spirit and all desire to sin was gone. That baptism of the Holy Spirit that kills the desire to sin, making us dead to sin (Romans 6:2) and not being in the flesh, but in the Spirit (Romans 8:9) is your whole nature being born again. It is all about complete surrender to Christ knowing you can never overcome sin on your own (I know!) and asking Jesus to completely create a clean heart in you. Complete repentance and surrender to Jesus is all you need to do to be born again. Those that always struggle with sin are like I was BEFORE I was born again. That is when none of my prayers were answered. (Another test) Now is completely different. It is like I've been two different people in one lifetime. And if you notice in my profile - I'm still celibate! And if all this wasn't enough, the Holy Spirit gave me many of the gifts of the Spirit, which allows me to be in communion with Jesus. I can hear His voice, and I could write a book filled with testimonies of miracles (in fact I am). One was like His first miracle of turning water into wine, but much bigger! So I hope I answered your question adequately. If you want to hear any of my testimonies, we can converse through our inboxes.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Perhaps you'll show me in scripture where those experiences you had were indicative of being born again. Sounds to me like you were saved, which has nothing to do with being born again. Perhaps you can show me a instance where any Gentile in the Bible was said to be born again. You're either a Jew or a Gentile - not both.

I'm the exact opposite of a preterist. I KNOW that no prophecy has been fulfilled since the destruction of the temple in 70AD. Preterists falsely believe that some or all prophecy has been fulfilled. Everybody that falsely believes Israel's becoming a nation in 1948 fulfilled prophecy is a preterist, of sorts. Of course, there's no proof that ANY prophecy since 70AD has ever been fulfilled. Just a lot of reading between the lines and assumptions, both of which are unacceptable treatment concerning the Word of God. God does nothing under a bushel or in a closet. If He fulfills any scripture, everyone will know it happened and that He did it.

See my answer to sparrow of the same question.
 
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sparow

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All scripture, including Hebrews, is equally inspired. The black letters are just as much God's words as the red letters

I agree with you in some respects but there are only 2 covenants concerning Israel keeping the law, the Old and the New. Only these 2 are mentioned in Jer 31. I know of no renewals. The same promises to Israel were renewed to Issac, Jacob, and David, but not the law. Israel, probably with no exceptions, was never able to keep the law, on their own, under the Old Covenant. The entire purpose of the New Covenant, as pretty well covered in Jer 31, was, through the Holy Spirit, to put the law in their inward parts, so that had the ability to totally keep the law and love doing it. At this point in time, just like the Great Commission, the New Covenant has NEVER been put into effect. The Gentiles will never have to keep the law, so it's extremely foolish to assume that any Gentile will EVER be associated with the New Covenant. Nowhere in the Bible is there a smoking gun verse that says that Gentiles have ANY part in the New Covenant. If it doesn't say it, it doesn't exist.

At least through the millennium, Israel will be under the law. We know this because, in Ezekiel, Israel is still making animal sacrifices in the millennium. Israel is not under the law during this 2000 year Gentile period we're in, because Israel was set aside in Ac 28:28, about 1950 years ago, and there is no Israel today, in God's eyes. Just look at how corrupt Israel is. There are essentially no Israelites there, no descendants of Jacob. It seems that most are Khazars. Also, the majority get their doctrine from the Satanic, evil Talmud, the same contemptible oral tradition that Jesus Christ condemned. The majority of the Jews today are no better, and probably much worse than the Pharisees. They either don't believe in God at all or they believe in the fake God of the Talmud. In any case, they are not God's people today, as prophesied in Hosea 1.

In other words you disagree with my view.
 
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BobRyan

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If you're a Gentile, there are no covenants that apply to you.

New Covenant does - as we see in Hebrews 8:6-12
And Old Covenant moral law applies to all the world -- as we see in Romans 3:19-20

I believe the good news revealed in the NT is the Kingdom of God is with us, near and among us; us being Israel, not the current nation of Israel but the descendants of Israel, and not all but the few who are called and chosen along with as many gentiles who are folded into Israel. What God expected of Israel of old He still requires of Israel to day.

New Covenant in "Old Testament" - reads like this

31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

Food for thought. Unchanged in the New Testament.


32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord.

Jesus is the one speaking there - according to Hebrews 8

33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

I presume you disagree with what I said; I don't see Jeremiah disagreeing with me.

Actually it is not clear to me that we differ at all on those points.

Hebrews on the other hand is not always considered universal scripture;

True - some folks to wish to apply the 2 Tim 3:16 teaching "all scripture is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine" ... to the book of Hebrews.

it is one side of a personal communication where the writer quotes Jeremiah or Jesus to make points;

Sort of like the Gospel of Luke is a personal letter and so also are 1 Timothy and 2 Timothy and Titus and Philemon... that story just doesn't quit.

and the point Hebrews seems to make is - it was not the Jews fault, the Law failed; which is nonsense.

Some few folks do view the book of Hebrews that way.


“when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, " When Jeremiah said that the house of Israel and the house of Judah were separate entities;

Which was reality in the day of Jeremiah - the kingdom already split.

but prophesy was that Israel would be reconstituted and Jesus did this primarily by the twelve apostles. God has always been building a house called the House of Israel

And as Romans 2 , and Romans 9 and Romans 11 point out - believing gentiles are grafted into it along with believing Jews.

Gal 1:6-9 teaches that there is "only one Gospel" and that "one Gospel" was in the OT "The Gospel was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8. The New Covenant is that "one Gospel" because it promises a new heart with the LAW of God written on the heart - and adoption into the family of God and forgiveness of sins.

It is the one and only way anyone in all of time (after the fall of Adam) has ever been saved.
 
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BobRyan

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Who takes God's name in vain that walks in the Spirit? That's the point. The New Covenant has to do with the SPIRIT not the LAW!!!

Quote it before you say that. Creative writing alone cannot prove your assertion.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Quote it before you say that. Creative writing alone cannot prove your assertion.

It isn't creative writing. Don't you see Romans 6:2, Romans 8:2, Romans 8:9, Galatians 5:16 and 18. Do you honestly need the addresses to look up. They aren't memorized yet? Well, probably not, as they are not Ex. 20.
 
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BobRyan

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Who takes God's name in vain that walks in the Spirit? That's the point. The New Covenant has to do with the SPIRIT not the LAW!!!

Quote it before you say that. Creative writing alone cannot prove your assertion.

It isn't creative writing.

If you actually quote the New Covenant when you want to make a case about what it actually says -- then that is not creative writing.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Quote it before you say that. Creative writing alone cannot prove your assertion.



If you actually quote the New Covenant when you want to make a case about what it actually says -- then that is not creative writing.

How do you NOT know that the New Covenant has to do with the Spirit and not Law. Did you go to church under a rock?

Romans 8: There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the SPIRIT. 2 For the law of the SPIRIT of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was WEAK through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the SPIRIT. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the SPIRIT, the things of the SPIRIT. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the SPIRIT, if indeed the SPIRIT OF GOD dwells in you.
Now if anyone does not have the SPIRIT OF CHRIST, he is not His.

2 Corinthians 3

4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the NEW COVENANT, not of the letter but of the SPIRIT; for the letter kills, but the SPIRIT gives life.

Glory of the NEW COVENANT
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the SPIRIT not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
 
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ac28

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How do you NOT know that the New Covenant has to do with the Spirit and not Law. Did you go to church under a rock?

Romans 8: There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the SPIRIT. 2 For the law of the SPIRIT of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was WEAK through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the SPIRIT. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the SPIRIT, the things of the SPIRIT. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the SPIRIT, if indeed the SPIRIT OF GOD dwells in you.
Now if anyone does not have the SPIRIT OF CHRIST, he is not His.

2 Corinthians 3

4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the NEW COVENANT, not of the letter but of the SPIRIT; for the letter kills, but the SPIRIT gives life.

Glory of the NEW COVENANT
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the SPIRIT not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
The New Covenant is totally the Holy Spirit, but it has only one purpose, to put the law into the inwards parts of the Israelites, so that they are able to keep the law, which they were never able to do under the Old Covenant. However, this is a moot point today, since Israel doesn't exist today, in God's eyes. Since Israel doesn't exist today, Israel's New Covenant doesnt't exist today.

The New Covenant, and the Old, are NATIONAL Covenants. They belong to Israel, only, as seen in Jer 31:31 and Heb 8:8. You can find noting in scripture that definitely says either covenant was for Gentiles. The Holy Spirit fell on the 120 Israelites (there were no Gentiles there) and gave them Gifts. This was a sample of the New Covenant, of the HS putting the law in these Jews inward parts. This lasted until Ac 28:28, when Israel and everything associated with Israel was set aside. The gifts are gone. None of those Gifts of the Spirit are available today and they have not been available for about 1950 years. If anyone is experiencing symptoms of what they think are these gifts today, they need to do a lot of praying that the unholy spirit that has invaded them will leave. Everyone who is saved has been baptized (immersed) in the Holy Spirit and our body is the temple of the HS, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the New Covenant, and nothing to do with the gifts of the Spirit.

During Acts, Paul's writings were to both Jews and Gentiles. It's often difficult to figure out who he's talking to. Also, all the saved Gentiles during Acts were part of Israel's program, in that they were grafted into Israel. Only now, after Acts, do Gentiles have their own unique heavenly program, unlike any in the rest of the Bible. In none of Paul's books did he ever say that Gentiles participated in the New Covenant. In his most recent 7 books, which contain the most up-to-date information from the special revelations from God he alone continually received, there is no discussion on the New Covenant.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Only now, after Acts, do Gentiles have their own unique heavenly program, unlike any in the rest of the Bible.

And how do Gentiles become "saved"?
 
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ac28

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And how do Gentiles become "saved"?
You are a Gentile. Paul is the only apostle to the Gentiles and is therefore the last word as to rules and directions that apply to us Gentiles. To get saved, obey Paul's Gospel in
1Cor 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

That's all in takes. As in vs 2, if you don't keep this in memory and stop believing, you can lose your salvation. I was OSAS for many years but, if that's true, how do you explain vs 2? It's quite plain and to the point.

Paul calls this, "My Gospel", throughout his writings, both during Acts (Rom 2:16) and after Acts (2Tim 2:8). Paul's 7 books written during Acts, to both Jews and Gentiles, were set aside as far as information about the Gentile's Hope (resurrection), Calling, rules, and specific directions were concerned. When Israel was set aside, along with everything pertaining to Israel, in Ac 28:28, Paul received revelations from God concerning a brand new Gentile Church, which has its hope in Heaven, unlike any other group in the entire Bible, including Acts. This Church is only found in Paul's last 7 books - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon. In this new church, the only rule I know of that was carried over from Paul's Acts books was his Gospel of 1Cor 15:1-4. Ephesians is considered by most to be Paul's 1st book written after Acts.
Eph 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

2Tim 2:8
Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Also, in Eph 2:8-9, Paul says that this salvation can only be gotten through your faaith and God's grace. It is a pure Gift and there is absolutely nothing you can do to get it, other than believe Paul's Gospel.
Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

There are many preachers (probably a majority) who wrongly believe that the red letters are more important and more inspired than the black letters. Unfortunately, this had led to much false teaching, concerning things from the Gospels, meant only for Israel, but wrongly taught that these things are also meant for Gentiles. These are things like the Great Commission, the Sermon on the mount, the Lord's prayer, the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven, the New Covenant, and being born again. If you look carefully in John 3, you'll see that being born again, of water and the Spirit, is what's needed in order for a Jew to enter the Jewish Kingdom of Heaven, when it occurs. I know of no place where salvation is associated with being born again. I have come to the point where i see the water/Spirit thing as simply the 2 types of baptism, or immersion.

These things I keep repeating are what the scriptures say, literally. So much of what traditional denominational preachers preach is NOT what the scriptures say. I would venture to say that 50% of what they say is NOT scriptural. NOT one of them obeys 2Tim 2:15, rightly dividing the Word of Truth, even though it says in that same verse, that right division, correctly cutting God's Word, is the Way to BE APPROVED UNTO GOD. Anyone, therefore, that does not rightly divide God's Word, IS NOT approved unto God. Failing to Rightly Divide is the #1 reason that denominational preachers and their poor laity fail to understand much, maybe half, of the New Testament. The only people on the planet, that I know of, that even attempt to obey the rule of right division, are dispensationalists.

The absolute #1 most important thing is our salvation, our total absolute belief that Jesus Christ died for our sins, was buried, and then was resurrected after 3 days - Paul's gospel. Most, but, unfortunately, not all, denominational churches cover salvation well and attempt to get all the people saved. After that, they utterly fail their flock. Their teaching is steeped in 100s of untruths, most of which could be solved easily by rightly dividing those things that God meant for Israel, only, from those things He meant only for Gentiles. These are the only things I see in scripture that need rightly divided.

From many things found in Paul's last 7 books, it's obvious to me and many others that the only way you will be able to get the obvious calling to heaven, in those books, is to see that calling, believe that calling is for you, and claim it. To do this, you must first eliminate from your mind those callings and rules and directions found in the other 59 books in the Bible are not for you. In many cases, they conflict with Paul's last 7 books. So, for example, you can't have both a calling of the New Jerusalem during Acts AND the calling of Heaven in Eph, Col, etc. Scripture tells you in Phil 1:10, (after seeing Strong's to find out the real meaning of the words, "approve" and "excellent") to try, or test, the things that differ. After you do that, you correctly cut and remove from your doctrine those things that belong to Israel - that's right division. The whole Bible it FOR you, but it's not all TO you. As a Gentile, today, the only letters with your name and address on the envelope are Paul's last 7 letters written after Acts.
 
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1stcenturylady

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You are a Gentile. Paul is the only apostle to the Gentiles and is therefore the last word as to rules and directions that apply to us Gentiles. To get saved, obey Paul's Gospel in
1Cor 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

That's all in takes. As in vs 2, if you don't keep this in memory and stop believing, you can lose your salvation. I was OSAS for many years but, if that's true, how do you explain vs 2? It's quite plain and to the point.

Paul calls this, "My Gospel", throughout his writings, both during Acts (Rom 2:16) and after Acts (2Tim 2:8). Paul's 7 books written during Acts, to both Jews and Gentiles, were set aside as far as information about the Gentile's Hope (resurrection), Calling, rules, and specific directions were concerned. When Israel was set aside, along with everything pertaining to Israel, in Ac 28:28, Paul received revelations from God concerning a brand new Gentile Church, which has its hope in Heaven, unlike any other group in the entire Bible, including Acts. This Church is only found in Paul's last 7 books - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon. In this new church, the only rule I know of that was carried over from Paul's Acts books was his Gospel of 1Cor 15:1-4. Ephesians is considered by most to be Paul's 1st book written after Acts.
Eph 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

2Tim 2:8
Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Also, in Eph 2:8-9, Paul says that this salvation can only be gotten through your faaith and God's grace. It is a pure Gift and there is absolutely nothing you can do to get it, other than believe Paul's Gospel.
Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

There are many preachers (probably a majority) who wrongly believe that the red letters are more important and more inspired than the black letters. Unfortunately, this had led to much false teaching, concerning things from the Gospels, meant only for Israel, but wrongly taught that these things are also meant for Gentiles. These are things like the Great Commission, the Sermon on the mount, the Lord's prayer, the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven, the New Covenant, and being born again. If you look carefully in John 3, you'll see that being born again, of water and the Spirit, is what's needed in order for a Jew to enter the Jewish Kingdom of Heaven, when it occurs. I know of no place where salvation is associated with being born again. I have come to the point where i see the water/Spirit thing as simply the 2 types of baptism, or immersion.

These things I keep repeating are what the scriptures say, literally. So much of what traditional denominational preachers preach is NOT what the scriptures say. I would venture to say that 50% of what they say is NOT scriptural. NOT one of them obeys 2Tim 2:15, rightly dividing the Word of Truth, even though it says in that same verse, that right division, correctly cutting God's Word, is the Way to BE APPROVED UNTO GOD. Anyone, therefore, that does not rightly divide God's Word, IS NOT approved unto God. Failing to Rightly Divide is the #1 reason that denominational preachers and their poor laity fail to understand much, maybe half, of the New Testament. The only people on the planet, that I know of, that even attempt to obey the rule of right division, are dispensationalists.

The absolute #1 most important thing is our salvation, our total absolute belief that Jesus Christ died for our sins, was buried, and then was resurrected after 3 days - Paul's gospel. Most, but, unfortunately, not all, denominational churches cover salvation well and attempt to get all the people saved. After that, they utterly fail their flock. Their teaching is steeped in 100s of untruths, most of which could be solved easily by rightly dividing those things that God meant for Israel, only, from those things He meant only for Gentiles. These are the only things I see in scripture that need rightly divided.

From many things found in Paul's last 7 books, it's obvious to me and many others that the only way you will be able to get the obvious calling to heaven, in those books, is to see that calling, believe that calling is for you, and claim it. To do this, you must first eliminate from your mind those callings and rules and directions found in the other 59 books in the Bible are not for you. In many cases, they conflict with Paul's last 7 books. So, for example, you can't have both a calling of the New Jerusalem during Acts AND the calling of Heaven in Eph, Col, etc. Scripture tells you in Phil 1:10, (after seeing Strong's to find out the real meaning of the words, "approve" and "excellent") to try, or test, the things that differ. After you do that, you correctly cut and remove from your doctrine those things that belong to Israel - that's right division. The whole Bible it FOR you, but it's not all TO you. As a Gentile, today, the only letters with your name and address on the envelope are Paul's last 7 letters written after Acts.

I'm not OSAS, though I do believe I am saved. But other than that and believing the particulars about Jesus, I'm not sure what else puts us on the same page. I have been baptized with the Holy Spirit, though a Gentile which you do not believe in for Gentiles, or Jews for that matter anymore. I am dead to sin and follow the Spirit. And I practice the gifts of the Spirit, always listening for His voice.

Let me see what else we may agree on one question at a time. What is sin, and do you sin?
 
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Marco70

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1stcenturylady said:
Who takes God's name in vain that walks in the Spirit? That's the point. The New Covenant has to do with the SPIRIT not the LAW!!!

Quote it before you say that. Creative writing alone cannot prove your assertion.



If you actually quote the New Covenant when you want to make a case about what it actually says -- then that is not creative writing.

So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death.6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code/law.
Rom 7:4-6
 
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