Old Covenant -- vs -- New Covenant - and the same moral law of God in both

[BobRyan]

New Covenant -- same moral law as in OC - which is the Law that "defines what sin is" Rom 3:19-21.

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Rom 3:19-21 - released from the condemnation of the law -- is to not be "under the law". Because all the world "is guilty before God" as sinners - "under the law"
Rom 3:31 "do we then make void the law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law"
Heb 8:6-12 "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind"

The relationship of the LOST toward the LAW -- is that they must die
and in Christ "all are buried in baptism" Romans 6. No longer "slaves to sin".

But the relationship of the "saved" is the NEW Covenant and so then "LAW of God written on heart and mind"

1 John 3:4 'Sin IS transgression of the LAW" even after the cross.
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments"
Eph 6:2 "Honor your father and mother for this is the first Commandment With a promise" in that still valid - distinct unit of TEN

The LAW condemns all the world as sinners and 'the wages of sin is death' but in Christ we are made to die to the law - and "the certificate of debt is nailed to the cross' Col 2:16 - paying our debt owed by sin.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Indeed.

Now would it be acceptable to you to actually quote the New Covenant text?

31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it ON THEIR HEARTS; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Deuteronomy 6:
4 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one! 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

6 “And these words which I command you today shall be IN YOUR HEART.

 

[BobRyan]

31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it ON THEIR HEARTS; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Now see?

We do agree on something.

As you quoted..

31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it ON THEIR HEARTS; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Deuteronomy 6:

4 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one! 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.
6 “And these words which I command you today shall be IN YOUR HEART.

[/quote]

Indeed - NEW COVENANT in the OLD testament

 

[1stcenturylady]

Now see?

We do agree on something.

As you quoted..

31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it ON THEIR HEARTS; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.





Indeed - NEW COVENANT in the OLD testament

Love God with all your heart, soul and spirit equals
believe on the name of His Son, Jesus Christ

love one another equals
love one another

1 John 3:23

 

[Marco70]

Love God with all your heart, soul and spirit equals
believe on the name of His Son, Jesus Christ

love one another equals
love one another

1 John 3:23

As Paul said:
All we need is faith working through love Gal5:6

 

[sparow]

The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:

16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”#

17 Then he adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”

Heb10:15-17

When one is baptised all past sins are erased, but future sins have to be dealt with as they occur. If you read the messages to the seven churches in Revelation you will find only two churches are guaranteed salvation the rest have to overcome, some individuals need a new name where not only are their sins forgotten but also their past rewards.

 

[sparow]

As Paul said:
All we need is faith working through love Gal5:6

Paul was not talking to us, and to the Galatians that he was speaking to faith and love may have been in addition to what they had; faith and love need to be defined; it is keeping the commandments and the manner that they are kept that defines love and faith in God.

 

[Marco70]

Paul was not talking to us, and to the Galatians that he was speaking to faith and love may have been in addition to what they had; faith and love need to be defined; it is keeping the commandments and the manner that they are kept that defines love and faith in God.

Love fulfils the law

 

[Marco70]

When one is baptised all past sins are erased, but future sins have to be dealt with as they occur. If you read the messages to the seven churches in Revelation you will find only two churches are guaranteed salvation the rest have to overcome, some individuals need a new name where not only are their sins forgotten but also their past rewards.

Paul tells believers they are not under law, what does he mean?

 

[sparow]

How do you NOT know that the New Covenant has to do with the Spirit and not Law. Did you go to church under a rock?

Romans 8: There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the SPIRIT. 2 For the law of the SPIRIT of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was WEAK through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the SPIRIT. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the SPIRIT, the things of the SPIRIT. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the SPIRIT, if indeed the SPIRIT OF GOD dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the SPIRIT OF CHRIST, he is not His.

2 Corinthians 3
4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the NEW COVENANT, not of the letter but of the SPIRIT; for the letter kills, but the SPIRIT gives life.

Glory of the NEW COVENANT
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the SPIRIT not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

The new covenant does not make the distinction between the Law and the spirit as you suggest. Any distinction is between the spirit of the Law as the Law has always been intended and the mechanical Law of the Pharisees. As you would know spirit is a pagan word and we use it because English is basically a pagan language; it is important for us not to adopt the pagan concept.

In the OT when we read spirit a correct rendering is wind , breeze or breath.

"". 2 For the law of the SPIRIT of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death."" so this should read: 2 For the law of the BREATH OF GOD in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

I do not pretend to under stand Paul, but I know what he says has to testable against the OT. I don't believe Paul's use of the word law in this case has anything to do with the commandments or the books of the Law although the first usage should be; the LAW of the BREATH OF GOD.

 

[sparow]

Love fulfils the law

Do you know what an abstract is? The Ten Commandments are an abstract of the whole Law, which is also a summary of the Law; love your neighbour as you love yourself is an abstract of part of the Law.

If " Love fulfils the Law" was a biblical statement then "fulfils the Law" would define Love on that usage occasion, not the other way around.

 

[sparow]

Paul tells believers they are not under law, what does he mean?

Paul appears to have invented the term "under the Law" or it may have been the interpreter/translators who did it. He may have meant under the old covenant, because Law and The Covenant are interchangeable. I do not use Paul, myself; this question would be better directed to Bob Ryan.

But there is a context to be considered, the Pharisees had screwed the Law up so their law (not God's Law) was an ugly and bitter thing; there is also the possibility that the epistles have been edited and Paul never said what you read.

 

[1stcenturylady]

The new covenant does not make the distinction between the Law and the spirit as you suggest. Any distinction is between the spirit of the Law as the Law has always been intended and the mechanical Law of the Pharisees. As you would know spirit is a pagan word and we use it because English is basically a pagan language; it is important for us not to adopt the pagan concept.

In the OT when we read spirit a correct rendering is wind , breeze or breath.

"". 2 For the law of the SPIRIT of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death."" so this should read: 2 For the law of the BREATH OF GOD in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

I do not pretend to under stand Paul, but I know what he says has to testable against the OT. I don't believe Paul's use of the word law in this case has anything to do with the commandments or the books of the Law although the first usage should be; the LAW of the BREATH OF GOD.

So then according to the law of the "breath of God," how does it free us from the law of sin and death?

 

[1stcenturylady]

When one is baptised all past sins are erased, but future sins have to be dealt with as they occur. If you read the messages to the seven churches in Revelation you will find only two churches are guaranteed salvation the rest have to overcome, some individuals need a new name where not only are their sins forgotten but also their past rewards.

I agree that it is our past sins that are forgiven. But you haven't said how we keep from sinning present and future sins.

 

[sparow]

So then according to the law of the "breath of God," how does it free us from the law of sin and death?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Huh?

 

[sparow]

So then according to the law of the "breath of God," how does it free us from the law of sin and death?

You are trying to change the subject which was is it the spirit in place of the Law or is it the spirit of the Law. The Law of God or the covenant of God properly enacted wont stop you from sinning but would mean you are not sinning, you will still die the first death unless He comes but you will receive a reprieve from the second death.

 

[1stcenturylady]

You are trying to change the subject which was is it the spirit in place of the Law or is it the spirit of the Law. The Law of God or the covenant of God properly enacted wont stop you from sinning but would mean you are not sinning, you will still die the first death unless He comes but you will receive a reprieve from the second death.

Come on now. You tried to get all religious about the word "Spirit" so to accomodate you I used "breath of God. So can you answer the question? How does God free us from the law of sin and death.

 

[sparow]

I agree that it is our past sins that are forgiven. But you haven't said how we keep from sinning present and future sins.

I expect that when we are raised up perfect on the last day sin will not be an option, at the moment one has to manage his own righteous.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I expect that when we are raised up perfect on the last day sin will not be an option, at the moment one has to manage his own righteous.

No, dear, that is a false doctrine that has been around for centuries, and is not scriptural. What is the baptism of the Holy Spirit for? Just to speak in tongues???