Old Covenant defined - vs - NEW Covenant

[BobRyan]

So you're preaching keeping all of those?

Would you like to start off with
"do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7
and "Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12
and "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5

Even though none of these laws of Moses are listed specifically as being for gentiles in Acts 15??

Indeed we would flat out fire any pastor that would dare preach against them... And we all know it.

So do you or don't you believe we are under the whole OT law?

First step 1... the easy part.

The Law of Moses includes this --

"do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7
and "Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12
and "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5

Indeed we would flat out fire any pastor that would dare preach against them... And we all know it.

Here is the challenge -- can you get to step 1??


(getting to "Step 1" will be a bit too much to ask of someone who is merely playing games... so let's see what happens)

So the answer is yes, you do teach keeping all of the OT laws. So do you have a farm for all the sacrifices?

Game over.

 

[BobRyan]

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Amen! And as NIV has it "He is the Atoning Sacrifice for our sins and not for our sins only - but for the sins of the whole world".

In Lev 16 the "Day of Atonement" does not END as soon as the Lord's goat is sacrificed -- as we all can see.

We do not teach the false doctrine of 'limited sacrifice' - Christ's sacrifice ... His "Atoning Sacrifice" was sufficient to cover all sin for all humanity in all of time.

 

[listed]

1 John 2:4

He who is saying that I know him,and is not keeping his precepts, is a liar; and the truth of The God, (tou theou) (YHWH) is not in this one.

John isn't talking about keeping the law. Your pronouns are miss assigned or you're taking the text out of context. The same author (John) quotes Jesus saying: keep My commandments. The same letter has John writing: And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

That has nothing to do with the law.

 

[listed]

Would you like to start off with
"do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7
and "Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12
and "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5

Even though none of these laws of Moses are listed specifically as being for gentiles in Acts 15??

Indeed we would flat out fire any pastor that would dare preach against them... And we all know it.

A pastor teaching sin, yes and amen. A pastor teaching the truth, no way.

 

[listed]

We do not teach the false doctrine of 'limited sacrifice' - Christ's sacrifice ... His "Atoning Sacrifice" was sufficient to cover all sin for all humanity in all of time.

This is a self contradictory statement.

 

[Doug Melven]

Even though none of these laws of Moses are listed specifically as being for gentiles in Acts 15??

Indeed we would flat out fire any pastor that would dare preach against them... And we all know it.

Any pastor who preaches the 10 commandments to a congregation of believers should not be speaking except to a congregation of lost people.
1 Timothy 1:8-9 says
1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Now we all know that.
So whenever you preach to a righteous man about the 10 Commandments you are in sin and need to repent.

 

[BobRyan]

So you're preaching keeping all of those?

Would you like to start off with
"do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7
and "Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12
and "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5

Even though no Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise),ne of these laws of Moses are listed specifically as being for gentiles in Acts 15??

Indeed we would flat out fire any pastor that would dare preach against them... And we all know it.

Any pastor who preaches the 10 commandments to a congregation of believers should not be speaking except to a congregation of lost people.

So then "Fire Paul" in Eph 6:2?
Eph 6 -
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise),


"Fire Paul" in Rom 3:31?
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

"Fire Paul" in Heb 8:6-10??? for saying that Christ gave us the TEN commandments and that under the New Covenant the LAW of God is written on the heart?

'Fire Paul" in Romans 2:4-16??
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

"Fire Paul" for writing the end of Romans 2??
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

"Fire Paul" for writing 1 Cor 7:19?? "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

"Fire Paul" for writing Romans 8:4-10??

Rom 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

"Fire Paul" for writing 1 Cor 6???
1 Cor 6
7 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you t... 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God

"Fire John" for writing 1 John 5:2-3??
"Fire James" for writing James 2??

Wouldn't that be a bit extreme?

Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

No text suggests such a thing - not even 1 Tim 1:8-9

1 Timothy 1:8-9 says
1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Is God's Word to be rejected for saying this ???--
"do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7
and "Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12
and "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5

 

[1stcenturylady]

Would you like to start off with
"do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7
and "Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12
and "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5

Even though no Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise),ne of these laws of Moses are listed specifically as being for gentiles in Acts 15??

Indeed we would flat out fire any pastor that would dare preach against them... And we all know it.



So then "Fire Paul" in Eph 6:2?
Eph 6 -
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise),


"Fire Paul" in Rom 3:31?
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

"Fire Paul" in Heb 8:6-10??? for saying that Christ gave us the TEN commandments and that under the New Covenant the LAW of God is written on the heart?

'Fire Paul" in Romans 2:4-16??
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

"Fire Paul" for writing the end of Romans 2??
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

"Fire Paul" for writing 1 Cor 7:19?? "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

"Fire Paul" for writing Romans 8:4-10??

Rom 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

"Fire John" for writing 1 John 5:2-3??
"Fire James" for writing James 2??

Wouldn't that be a bit extreme?

Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

No text suggests such a thing - not even 1 Tim 1:8-9

1 Timothy 1:8-9 says
1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Is God's Word to be rejected for saying this ???--
"do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7
and "Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12
and "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5

How do we "establish" the law?

 

[BobRyan]

How do we "establish" the law?

New Covenant -- it is written on heart and mind - see Romans 8:6-10
Rom 8:4-10 comes to mind.

 

[1stcenturylady]

New Covenant -- it is written on heart and mind - see Romans 8:6-10
Rom 8:4-10 comes to mind.

How is it written on our heart?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Any pastor who preaches the 10 commandments to a congregation of believers should not be speaking except to a congregation of lost people.

Remember this.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So whenever you preach to a righteous man about the 10 Commandments you are in sin and need to repent.

Forget this. It is wrong.

 

[Doug Melven]

Forget this. It is wrong.

1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

Before you start teaching anybody the law, Paul says in verse 9 the first thing we need to know is that the law is not made for a righteous man.
So for a preacher to preach the law to righteous people is to ignore the first thing we need to know about the law.
This wasn't my idea, or Paul's, this was God's idea.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Before you start teaching anybody the law, Paul says in verse 9 the first thing we need to know is that the law is not made for a righteous man.
So for a preacher to preach the law to righteous people is to ignore the first thing we need to know about the law.
This wasn't my idea, or Paul's, this was God's idea.

Yahweh's Word is far, far above.... and not what you are trying to say.

Look up "TORAH" in biblegateway in a translation that says TORAH when TORAH is meant, instead of saying law.
See this in TORAH, PROPHETS, PSALMS and NEW TESTAMENT. And see what God actually says, if He permits.

 

[Doug Melven]

Yahweh's Word is far, far above.... and not what you are trying to say.

Look up "TORAH" in biblegateway in a translation that says TORAH when TORAH is meant, instead of saying law.
See this in TORAH, PROPHETS, PSALMS and NEW TESTAMENT. And see what God actually says, if He permits.

So what are you saying, we should ignore this passage in 1 Timothy?
Didn't God inspire Paul to write this book.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So what are you saying, we should ignore this passage in 1 Timothy?
Didn't God inspire Paul to write this book.

You seem not to have time to look up "TORAH",
and are apparently ignoring most of what Yahweh says about TORAH in HIS WORD.

 

[Doug Melven]

You seem not to have time to look up "TORAH",
and are apparently ignoring most of what Yahweh says about TORAH in HIS WORD.

Torah sometimes refers to the Pentateuch, sometimes to His Teaching, sometimes to His Word.
So we should only focus on Torah and ignore what Yahweh inspired Paul to teach?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Torah sometimes refers to the Pentateuch, sometimes to His Teaching, sometimes to His Word.
So we should only focus on Torah and ignore what Yahweh inspired Paul to teach?

Oh, don't worry - I didn't say to focus on TORAH.
Only that much of what is posted is contrary to TORAH (consequently also contrary to Scripture).
Few ever bother to find out.

 

[Doug Melven]

Oh, don't worry - I didn't say to focus on TORAH.
Only that much of what is posted is contrary to TORAH (consequently also contrary to Scripture).
Few ever bother to find out.

You told me when I cited 1 Timothy 1 that I was not taking the time to look up the meaning of Torah. I did that a long time ago so I had no use to do it again.
Now it looks as if you are saying 1 Timothy is contrary to Torah.
Maybe you should explain those verses in 1 Timothy 1.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You told me when I cited 1 Timothy 1 that I was not taking the time to look up the meaning of Torah. I did that a long time ago so I had no use to do it again.
Now it looks as if you are saying 1 Timothy is contrary to Torah.
Maybe you should explain those verses in 1 Timothy 1.

It is a big, big surprise to me, and I apologize if you did look it up.
How many occurences of the word "TORAH" did you find , basically, in the TORAH, PROPHETS, PSALMS and NEW TESTAMENT ? (just an average round figure is fine)