Old Covenant defined - vs - NEW Covenant

[BobRyan]

So you're preaching keeping all of those?

Would you like to start off with
"do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7
and "Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12
and "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5

Even though none of these laws of Moses are listed specifically as being for gentiles in Acts 15??

Indeed we would flat out fire any pastor that would dare preach against them... And we all know it.

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

How do you understand the following verse.

1 Corinthians 14:37
If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment.

Paul writes that the 5th commandment is the FIRST commandment in that still-valid and still-binding LAW of God - the TEN Commandments... "With a promise" Eph 6:2

Paul writes that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

And of course adds his own statement about "All scripture given by inspiration from God AND to be used for DOCTRINE" 2 Tim 3:16

"do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

Why in the world would I not want to accept these scriptures as included in the Commandments of God for the saints???

 

[BobRyan]

Rom 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

The point remains.

Were the people Paul called saints not Spirit-filled believers?
He addressed them as saints in 1 Corinthians 1:1
He called them carnal in 1 Corinthians 3:1.

He did not address those with "hostility towards God" as saints... ever.

Rom 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

 

[Doug Melven]

He did not address those with "hostility towards God" as saints... ever.

I misstated the verse. It wasn't verse 1, it was verse 2. 1 Corinthians 1"2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
These people are in Christ. Let's skip down to verse 10.
Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

Looks to me like Paul is addressing people who are in active sin.

 

[BobRyan]

Rom 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

The point remains.

Were the people Paul called saints not Spirit-filled believers?
He addressed them as saints in 1 Corinthians 1:1
He called them carnal in 1 Corinthians 3:1.

He did not address those with "hostility towards God" as saints... ever.

Rom 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

I misstated the verse. It wasn't verse 1, it was verse 2. 1 Corinthians 1"2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Paul had no way to make sure that an unsaved church member in Corinth would never read his letter -- as we all know.

His letter was written to the Christian church at Corinth and certainly some of them were saved.

Meanwhile -- Back to the letter to the Romans. Chapter 8

Rom 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.


Those who are "hostile" toward God... who do not subject themselves to the Law of God "neither indeed CAN they" -- are lost and in need of the Gospel.

 

[ToBeLoved]

He did not address those with "hostility towards God" as saints... ever.

Rom 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.



Paul had no way to make sure that an unsaved church member in Corinth would never read his letter -- as we all know.

His letter was written to the Christian church at Corinth and certainly some of them were saved.

Meanwhile -- Back to the letter to the Romans. Chapter 8

Rom 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.


Those who are "hostile" toward God... who do not subject themselves to the Law of God "neither indeed CAN they" -- are lost and in need of the Gospel.

You are barking up the wrong tree with the “hostility towards God” angle here.

As a matter of fact, it is about the unsaved being “hostile to God”


It is a contrast.

 

[Doug Melven]

Paul had no way to make sure that an unsaved church member in Corinth would never read his letter -- as we all know.

His letter was written to the Christian church at Corinth and certainly some of them were saved.

Paul said these BRETHREN were in active sin.
And according to your definition, they were hostile to God.

 

[BobRyan]

Rom 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

The point remains.

Were the people Paul called saints not Spirit-filled believers?
He addressed them as saints in 1 Corinthians 1:1
He called them carnal in 1 Corinthians 3:1.

He did not address those with "hostility towards God" as saints... ever.

I misstated the verse. It wasn't verse 1, it was verse 2. 1 Corinthians 1"2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Paul had no way to make sure that an unsaved church member in Corinth would never read his letter -- as we all know.

His letter was written to the Christian church at Corinth and certainly some of them were saved.

Meanwhile -- Back to the letter to the Romans. Chapter 8

Rom 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.


Those who are "hostile" toward God... who do not subject themselves to the Law of God "neither indeed CAN they" -- are lost and in need of the Gospel.

Paul said these BRETHREN were in active sin.
And according to your definition, they were hostile to God.

Paul says the lost are hostile to Go and that they "do not submit to the LAW of God - neither indeed CAN they". You need to re-read that Romans 8 text again... slowly. As it is your argument is "With the text" and so you state your post as if I wrote Romans 8.

 

[BobRyan]

Rom 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

The point remains.

Were the people Paul called saints not Spirit-filled believers?
He addressed them as saints in 1 Corinthians 1:1
He called them carnal in 1 Corinthians 3:1.

He did not address those with "hostility towards God" as saints... ever.

I misstated the verse. It wasn't verse 1, it was verse 2. 1 Corinthians 1"2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Paul had no way to make sure that an unsaved church member in Corinth would never read his letter -- as we all know.

His letter was written to the Christian church at Corinth and certainly some of them were saved.

Meanwhile -- Back to the letter to the Romans. Chapter 8

Rom 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.


Those who are "hostile" toward God... who do not subject themselves to the Law of God "neither indeed CAN they" -- are lost and in need of the Gospel.

You are barking up the wrong tree with the “hostility towards God” angle here.

As a matter of fact, it is about the unsaved being “hostile to God”

It is a contrast.

I am not the one who wrote Romans 8

 

[1stcenturylady]

Would you like to start off with
"do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7
and "Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12
and "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5

Even though none of these laws of Moses are listed specifically as being for gentiles in Acts 15??

Indeed we would flat out fire any pastor that would dare preach against them... And we all know it.

So do you or don't you believe we are under the whole OT law?

 

[Doug Melven]

↑
Paul said these BRETHREN were in active sin.
And according to your definition, they were hostile to God.

Paul says the lost are hostile to Go and that they "do not submit to the LAW of God - neither indeed CAN they". You need to re-read that Romans 8 text again... slowly. As it is your argument is "With the text" and so you state your post as if I wrote Romans 8.

No, my problem is not with Paul's text and I am confident you did not write.
My problem is with your interpretation of Paul's text.
You assume that when the text says "they mind the things of the flesh" that means they are not saved.
That is wrong. In 1 Corinthians 7:33 Paul says married people mind the things of the world, does that mean married people are not saved?

 

[HARK!]

In what way is the Mosaic Covenant broken?

As far as they were concerned, the law was of no effect. Read Jeremiah.

How do you decide which do, and do not apply to you?

I'm not a female: and to my knowledge I'm not a Levite. That's a good start.

You are wording this riddle in a tricky way! A sacrificial pig hey? I won't be bringing a sacrificial anything to the feast! He is the sacrifice once for all!

That's not what the Greek says.

How do you reconcile these verses with that interpretation?:

(CLV) 1Pt 2:5
you, also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, into a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, most acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

(CLV) Ro 12:1
I am entreating you, then, brethren, by the pities of God, to present your bodies a sacrifice, living, holy, well pleasing to God, your logical divine service,

But as for bringing some food to a wedding feast, would you consider bringing a wedding cake evil? The sugar in the cake is much worse for a person than some pork! But if we don't have to consider health, because we are in our glorified bodies, then we can eat anything! Although, will there be any meat in heavens wedding feast? Most people think of the lions befriending the lambs, no more death etc. Who knows! "What goes into someone's mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them." Says Jesus.

Jesus didn't eat pork. This passage has nothing to do with pork. It has to do with listening to men, instead of being obedient to YHWH's law.

As far as the lion and the lamb is concerned. I believe that the lamb is Yahshua ben Joseph; and that the lion is Yahshua ben David.

What law are you meaning? What part of the Mosaic Law? None.

YHWH's law. It's all YHWH's law.

 

[BobRyan]

Rom 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

The point remains.

Were the people Paul called saints not Spirit-filled believers?
He addressed them as saints in 1 Corinthians 1:1
He called them carnal in 1 Corinthians 3:1.

He did not address those with "hostility towards God" as saints... ever.

I misstated the verse. It wasn't verse 1, it was verse 2. 1 Corinthians 1"2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Paul had no way to make sure that an unsaved church member in Corinth would never read his letter -- as we all know.

His letter was written to the Christian church at Corinth and certainly some of them were saved.

Meanwhile -- Back to the letter to the Romans. Chapter 8

Rom 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.


Those who are "hostile" toward God... who do not subject themselves to the Law of God "neither indeed CAN they" -- are lost and in need of the Gospel.

Paul said these BRETHREN were in active sin.
And according to your definition, they were hostile to God.

Paul says the lost are hostile to Go and that they "do not submit to the LAW of God - neither indeed CAN they". You need to re-read that Romans 8 text again... slowly. As it is your argument is "With the text" and so you state your post as if I wrote Romans 8.

↑
No, my problem is not with Paul's text and I am confident you did not write.

No see? There's a step in the right direction!

My problem is with your interpretation of Paul's text.
You assume that when the text says "they mind the things of the flesh" that means they are not saved.

Nothing in my post says "mind the things of the flesh".

Let's quote that text "again".

because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,

Those who imagine that New Birth results in a mind that it "hostile toward God" and in rebellion against His LAW - have not read enough scripture lately.

Romans 6 "you are slaves of the one that you obey - either of sin resulting in death or of righteousness"

 

[BobRyan]

So you're preaching keeping all of those?

Would you like to start off with
"do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7
and "Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12
and "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5

Even though none of these laws of Moses are listed specifically as being for gentiles in Acts 15??

Indeed we would flat out fire any pastor that would dare preach against them... And we all know it.

So do you or don't you believe we are under the whole OT law?

First step 1... the easy part.

The Law of Moses includes this --

"do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7
and "Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12
and "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5

Indeed we would flat out fire any pastor that would dare preach against them... And we all know it.

Here is the challenge -- can you get to step 1??

 

[Doug Melven]

Nothing in my post says "mind the things of the flesh".

Let's quote that text "again".

because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,

Those who imagine that New Birth to be a mind that it "hostile toward God" and in rebellion against His LAW - have not read enough scripture lately.

Are you really saying there is a difference between "mind the things of the flesh" and "the mind set on the flesh"?
When you were born-again you did not get a new mind. You did not get a new body. You did get a new spirit.
You still have the old mind that wants to sin.
Your body still has the same old cravings that it had before you were born-again.
Before you can really figure out what Romans 8 is talking about, you must learn what Romans 7 is talking about.
That struggle Paul had in Romans 7 was his own struggle with sin before learning how to walk in the Spirit.
As every believer that is honest with himself can attest to. If you say that you never struggled with sin you are not being honest with us or yourself.

 

[Doug Melven]

First step 1... the easy part.

The Law of Moses includes this --

"do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7
and "Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12
and "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5

Are you telling me you do these 3 commands all of the time?

 

[HARK!]

Are you telling me you do these 3 commands all of the time?

Wouldn't you agree that YHWH and Yahshua call us to obey these commands all the time?

 

[Doug Melven]

Wouldn't you agree that YHWH and Yahshua call us to obey these commands all the time?

If I follow the Holy Spirit He will never lead me to break one of those commands.
But wanting to do those commands and all the rest of the commands and actually following all of those commands is simply not the same thing.
Nobody on this planet besides Yahshua Himself ever did all those commands all of the time.

 

[Doug Melven]

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Would you like to start off with
"do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7
and "Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12
and "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5

Even though none of these laws of Moses are listed specifically as being for gentiles in Acts 15??

Indeed we would flat out fire any pastor that would dare preach against them... And we all know it.



First step 1... the easy part.

The Law of Moses includes this --

"do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7
and "Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12
and "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5

Indeed we would flat out fire any pastor that would dare preach against them... And we all know it.

Here is the challenge -- can you get to step 1??

So the answer is yes, you do teach keeping all of the OT laws. So do you have a farm for all the sacrifices?