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Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by AubreyM, Apr 5, 2021 at 12:29 PM.

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  1. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    Hello renniks thank you good question

    Because all sins are paid for all mankind, with or without faith. The blood shed of christ paid for it before we even began to believe in Christ.
     
  2. Bobber

    Bobber Well-Known Member

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    OK let's look at it.

    Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.” Rev 22:15

    So you're asserting that ones who aren't saved are just outside the city? That would exclude however other things that are said about the fate of the lost, such as in Rev 21:9, (just a few verses before)

    "But to the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and sexually immoral and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death.” Rev 21:19

    So Rev 21:19 has rolled out the descriptive condition of the lost. Rev 22:15 doesn't do that except to say they're outside. When you get the descriptive state revealed and talked about in the prior chapter God doesn't necessarily have to say the same words again.....it's already been described. When he says they're outside the City I see no justification for suggesting Rev 21:19 isn't the true description. He already revealed that part. I think God had composed Rev 22:15 expecting and knowing that it should be self evident what it means. He already described the detail of what outside should mean in the chapter before. So sorry Aubrey....I think your conclusion is pretty weak.
     
  3. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    OK, thanks, just wanted to be sure what page you are on, I agree.

    I take it from the title of the thread that you say we do not need to repent of our sins in order to be saved?
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021 at 5:20 PM
  4. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    Okay but chapter 22 is after the fact so I personally can’t articulate it right now am to immature to know how to. Thank you for your comment bobber.


    This a great question KennyId because when you and me were born our sins where already covered. The thing is we had no knowledge of God, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    It is really interesting to know that.

    Our sins have been covered by the blood shed of Christ Jesus before we ever heard anything about him.

    What do you think about this? We can now look and read scripture and it seems to pull through and true by the scripture shared in op.
     
  5. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I just want an answer to my question.
     
  6. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    If God loves folks just as they are, why did He send His Son to die for their sins? Why will He send the unrepentant and unbelieving to eternal hell? (Matthew 25:46) Why does God's wrath abide on those who reject Christ? (John 3:36) God loves us but this does not mean He accepts our sinful thinking and living. If we don't come under the cleansing flow of Christ's shed blood, we will, at the Final Judgement, find God our wrathful Judge, not a loving Heavenly Father.
     
  7. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    to be saved to the kingdom of God requires faith in Jesus Christ,

    we are saved from our sins due to his blood shed and resurrection
     
  8. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    Hello aiki
    I believe Gods wrath was upon the nation of Israel.

    God sent Christ so people could be saved to kingdom of God be spiritually reborn and have relationship with them in this life now.
     
  9. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but you said:
    "It doesn't require faith to have your sins forgiven."

    The scripture says otherwise.

    7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace.

    How do we become " in him"?
    By faith!
     
  10. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    This is coming to truth, of his forgiveness.

    His death covered all sins of the world otherwise the scriptures shared in op are useless, renniks.
     
  11. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There seems to be a run on Universal Reconciliation. So that I understand what this is, this is how it is defined. Please confirm if this is what you agree with. Thanks.
    Universal reconciliation, also called universal salvation or sometimes simply universalism, is the non-mainstream Christian doctrine that all people will at some point receive salvation, because of the love and mercy of God.
     
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  12. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    Both are different.

    Universal Reconciliation is the world to God - Jesus Christ paid for sin. - this biblically sound

    Universal salvation is everyone going to heaven - this is not true.

    Not everyone is going to choose to believe and follow God or the Lord Jesus Christ.

    does this help Maria?
     
  13. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No, because this definition says it is one and the same, just a different name. Do you believe Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God in the flesh?
     
  14. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    Maria they are not the same thing.

    what does this have to do with anything?

    I believe a Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God in the flesh, Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God who is living through him, while Jesus Christ was a man who had flesh and was tempted who resisted temptation by faith in trusting in God. Died on the cross paying for the worlds sins, Jesus died and went into the grave into the heart of the earth. Then was raised again by God.
     
  15. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    How did you come to these erroneous conclusions?
    1) That is not the definition of Universal Reconciliation.
    2) How do you define Universal salvation?

    Since you say that "the payment of all sins for all people, is a sound biblical doctrine", how can you claim that Universal Salvation is not true? The payment for sin has been made. Done deal.
     
  16. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    Because of choice to become a child of God is defined by having faith on the Lord Jesus Christ @Saint Steven do not have time to go back and forth okay, sir.

    John 1:12 -> a choice has to be made to be a child of God.

    Everyone is a creation of God and therefore spiritually dead also.

    All Gods creation is dead to him, until they are spiritually reawaken by hearing of the truth of the Gospel of the Life, Death, Resurrection of Christ.

    -This excludes aboriginals because God knows their circumstances.
     
  17. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The definition I provided said they were one and the same. So I am a bit confused. Here it is again:
    If you are willing, please provide your definition if this is not correct. Thanks!
    Universal reconciliation, also called universal salvation or sometimes simply universalism, is the non-mainstream Christian doctrine that all people will at some point receive salvation, because of the love and mercy of God.
     
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  18. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So this distinction here is, the Jews need to repent and the Gentiles do not?
     
  19. AubreyM

    AubreyM Active Member

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    They are different.

    Universal reconciliation can be found in the Bible. Look up this scripture God reconciled the world unto himself, also the two scriptures provided here. You will see the reconciliation of God.

    This has to simply do with sins of the world being paid for.

    God is no longer angry or mad at the world today in my view. Jesus Christ was enough to pay for the sins for all people everywhere at one time on the cross, and reconciled the world.

    Doesn’t it also say in John 3 that that world might be saved through Jesus Christ.

    (No faith is needed to have your sins covered they have been covered since birth before you ever knew Christ Jesus)

    Now Universal Salvation says there is no faith needed to get to heaven Jesus Christ paid for it all and that is it. — This is not true.

    Faith is needed in God and the Lord Jesus Christ to even become a child, son or daughter of God.

    So universal salvation is false.


    You can see a better distinction in the letters but don’t have the materials.

    Everything changes after the resurrection of Christ, Paul goes to the Gentiles saying believe in the In the Lord and like the Romans chapter 10:9?

    if you believe (doesn’t talk about repent!)

    Though all repentance is is a change of mind in general.

    Maybe am wrong about this but figured would try to answer the best could thank you for the question.

    New Living Translation
    They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, along with everyone in your household.”

    @Maria Billingsley , saved to what? For us now? The kingdom of God.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021 at 6:47 PM
  20. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Actually. Repentance comes after you believe. Sin is not exposed to the sinner who does not care until they believe. This is how it worked when I became born again. I did not see my sin until I was regenerated with the power of the Holy spirit. It is the Holy Spirit that leads us in all truth. We repent once we realize through the power of the Holy Spirit that we are unrighteous.
     
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