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Featured No New Commandment

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by HARK!, Jun 30, 2020.

  1. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    (CLV) Jn 13:34
    "A new precept am I giving to you, that you be loving one another; according as I love you, that you also be loving one another.


    (CLV) Ec 1:9
    What occurred once, it shall occur again, And what was done, it shall be done again. There is nothing at all new under the sun.

    (CLV) Lv 19:18
    You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself: I am YHWH.

    So why did Yahshua call this a new commandment?

    He didn't.

    That is how the word was translated into English. In the Greek, we see two words, with two different meanings. translated into one English word.

    The word kainos, which is used in John 13:34, is not the word used for new with respect to age, or neos.

    G2537

    καινός kainós, kahee-nos'; of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness; while G3501 is properly so with respect to age:—new.



    G3501

    †νέος néos, neh'-os; including the comparative νεότερος neóteros neh-o'-ter-os; a primary word; "new", i.e. (of persons) youthful, or (of things) fresh; figuratively, regenerate:—new, young.

    I might say that I bought a new house; but that house might have been built over 100 years ago.

    Yahshua was refreshing YHWH's commandment to love our associates as ourselves.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
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  2. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    I am no expert in Greek but Kainos seems to indeed mean new...

    My take is that the Love of God was personified in the life of Jesus, never before seen.

    That means it was a new commandment to follow Jesus example and so walk in His love.

    We have underestimated how central this should be in the scheme of things.

    John 17: 20-26 indicates this Love visible to the world should be central to our evangelism.

    We seem to be light years away from this sadly.
     
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  3. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Just as you would fight to the death to save your life; Yahshua fought to the death to save the lives of his associates. This is the truest expression of Leviticus 19:18.
     
  4. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    Jesus was just urging us to be proactive in our spiritual ethics (we should not just seek to not harm, but should try to help where we can). The whole idea of the Golden rule had been developing for some time in Judaism, even the Egyptians had their own version of it in their wisdom literature.



    You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against your kinsfolk. Love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.

    — Leviticus 19:18



    "Do to no one what you yourself dislike."

    — Tobit 4:15


    Once there was a gentile who came before Shammai, and said to him: "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot. Shammai pushed him aside with the measuring stick he was holding. The same fellow came before Hillel, and Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it." - Babylonian Talmud, Shabbat 31a
     
  5. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Witness

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    John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever
    believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

    How on earth could anyone in the world have known THIS love prior to the incarnation of the Son?

    Revelation 21:5. Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new [kainos].”
    And He said to me, “Write, for these words are True and Faithful.”
     
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  6. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Developing in Judaism? I believe if anything, that YHWH's word has been suffering from entropy in Judaism. Yahshua spoke the word that was given to Moses.
     
  7. Rachel20

    Rachel20 Member

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    My take is that it was a new law, just happened to be the same as the old law. Needed because of the change of priesthood from the levitical to order of Melchizedek.

    For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. Hebrews 7:11-12
     
  8. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Witness

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    John 8:28. Then Jesus said to them, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I Am, and I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things.

    Yeshua, of course, knew the written word, but He also spoke a living Word. As can we, if we abide.
    Why else would you get up before the sunrise to spend time with the Father?

    1 Corinthians 12:
    7
    But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
    8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word
    of knowledge through the same Spirit,
    9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit...

    This can, in fact, simply be a verse of scripture timely given, but in experience can be much more personal, if in fact, you have known very intimate fellowship with other believers. Testify if you will.
     
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  9. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That word change is better translated as transferred. The laws concerning the High Priesthood were transferred with the office of the High Priesthood.

    (CLV) Hb 7:12
    For, the priesthood being transferred, of necessity there is coming to be a transference of law also,

    YHWH doesn't change. His law is his nature.
     
  10. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Witness

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    The Law was given after The Ten at Sinai specifically because the people refused to listen to the Voice that they were allowed to hear from the Presence.
    Exodus 21:19. Then they said to Moses, “You speak with us, and we will hear;
    but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

    Abraham fulfilled the Law BEFORE it was given because he heeded The Voice.
    This was BEFORE YHWH was even proclaimed.
    Genesis 26:5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.
    Even with his hand raised preparing to slay Isaac, The Angel of the Lord was able
    to make The Voice heard with Abraham. Most people are too distracted by the mundane
    to have that kind of "hearing of faith".
     
  11. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Witness

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    John 15:13. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
    1 John 3:16. Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and
    we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
     
  12. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's right.

    Yahshua gave us no neos commandments.
     
  13. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Witness

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    Actually, Yeshua was professing His absolute obedience to the Will of His Father
    in the here and now of His incarnation.[note His use of 'son of man' in this verse if that helps]
    But if you want to try to work it into your OP, may He grant you Grace. Have we already reached the all too familiar place where you refuse to acknowledge any possible shortcoming in the position you take in an OP? I won't indulge you any further if that is the case. Good night and good luck. Over and Out.
     
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  14. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What shortcoming?
     
  15. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Witness

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    Exactly. You have none. Maybe read #5 again and explain how that supports the position you are taking in the OP. Spoiler Alert, it was a refutation. Yeshua had the authority and used that authority to make all things new, including an understanding of God's Love for the entire world that was never discovered in Torah by the men that were entrusted with it. The love of God was manifested to the world by the incarnation of the Son, and you say that He was not doing a new thing?
    I guess I will just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
     
  16. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I didn't claim that it supports my position. If you want to make that argument; have at it.

    You've already acknowledged that neos was not the word used in Revelation 21:5.

    The onus is not on me to play guessing games, to decipher cryptic messages which might imply logical arguments that my detractors fail to convey; that I might rise to the occasion to make failed logical arguments in their stead.
     
  17. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Witness

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    This is "refreshing'" Love Thy Neighbor or was it taking it to an all NEW level.
    John 15:13. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
    1 John 3:16. Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and
    we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
     
  18. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's what magnification does.

    (CLV) Isa 42:21
    Yahweh, He has delight for the sake of His righteousness, And He may magnify the law and ennoble it.

    Was that you're refutation of the OP; or am I still waiting for a response?
     
  19. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Witness

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    Fact: Love Thy Neighbor already fulfills the law.

    Let's look at the verses you do not acknowledge.
    John 15:13. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
    1 John 3:16. Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and
    we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

    Time and again, the gospels proclaim a new thing, not a magnified thing, not a refreshed thing.

    Romans 8:4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

    You have made clear your position that you can walk that walk by keeping the Torah. Which also implies that you don't have to be crucified with Christ, you don't have to be baptized into His death. So walk it. Just don't call it Grace. And don't call it a new thing.
    “Behold, I make all things new, or refreshed, or magnified." Whatever floats your boat.
     
  20. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Oh, a strawman argument. Very nice choice of fallacious arguments.
     
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