NO MORE PREACHING ON HELL

[2PhiloVoid]

I wasn't sure what you meant by the rise of 'nones' but I looked it up = non-affliated to any religion. I would be classed as a Gen Xer I suppose, but I never understood these generational descriptions (Baby boomers, Gen Xers until recently). I have mixed thoughts about the whole hell thing. sometimes I buy books and read articles, and sermons by christians who obvious believe there is a hell such as CS Lewis, and try to persuade myself of the danger, but I had such difficulties and worries about it when young, that I don't like to think much about it.

Going back to the OP maybe the preaching has moved away from what happens after you die.

In Dallas Willard's book the Divine Conspiracy, he has a chapter called Gospels of Sin Management in which he gives the two must common versions of the Gospel. The Gospel on the Right (fundamentalism) and the Gospel on the Left (theological liberalism the social gospel). I would disagree with Willard if he was suggesting those two theologies constitute the whole picture.

But he seems to be saying one or other of these two understandings dominate the minds of many christians.

He says the fundamentalist understanding, what he calls 'Bar code faith', leads to a disjunction between faith and ordinary life.

Hi dms1972,

I, too, am a Gen Xer, and there probably isn't a clear division line as to where social experts will continue to define the line, or maintain the age range between Baby Boomers, Gen Xers, Millenials, and the next generation. In general, if a person in the English speaking world is around 40 years of age or younger, then they're in a demographic sector that is finding it increasingly more difficult to identify with traditional religious (Christian) institutions and ideals. Of course, I'm sure you know this already.

I respect Dallas Willard's point of view, although I can't say for sure that the 'Bar cod faith' type of teaching definitely leads to a disjunction between faith and ordinary life, but it is something many younger people who are more oriented toward the "Information Age/Education" feel makes a huge difference in whether they can believe or not.

Probably, direct teaching about Hell isn't what is chasing the younger ages away, but their growing intolerance for what is perceived as "judgementalism" in the Church. And I can vouch for some of that; I have a family member who was the 'victim,' so to speak, of a Christian pastor who was neither a very insightful man, nor a helpful one, nor one who understood that "pushing" people toward the faith with guilt-trips wasn't a good way to help immature Christians grow.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[Original Happy Camper]

We must always tell the truth, but always in love. Never putting one down until we have walked a mile in their shoes. God Bless !!!!

You are apparently reading more into my post than is intended.

First lie ever told
Gen 3
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

If you believe that those in hell are burning forever and do not die then you are believing the serpents lie.

 

[Light of the East]

Amen yes he was.....
John the baptist, acting crazy shouting REPENT REPENT for the kingdom is at hand. Now im just telling ya, that would get my attention. Dont pat me on the back, tell me the truth.

Wait a minute. "Repent, repent for the kingdom is at hand" does not sound like "Repent, repent or you will go to hell."

 

[Ajushi]

I know what you mean, heard plenty myself. BUT NO DONT GET ME WRONG.....I dont think or want to hear it every week at all. Im referring to the fact that you totally do not hear it anymore.....nowhere.

This perhaps this is the great falling away
and the lukewarm church described in revelations 3.
The fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom.
But from there we should enter into experiencing His perfect love, where there is no more tormenting fear based relationship with God.

 

[Light of the East]

the good news makes little sense without the bad news.

What is the bad news?

 

[Light of the East]

Not sure how much love someone would have for God, if their primary motive for accepting Christ was to avoid hell

That is exactly the problem with hellfire preaching. Getting people's emotions all worked up so they will make a "decision for Jesus" under extreme duress is not the same as showing Jesus conquering death by His death, burial, and glorious Resurrection so that all mankind can return to God and have eternal life.

The former can produce obedience done in dread.

The latter is more likely to produce obedience from a heart filled with love.

 

[FireDragon76]

Hell gets mentioned at least service at my church, in the Creed... "He descended into Hell". But probably not quite the same meaning as in fundamentalist evangelical churches, ya know...

I think the American Puritans and Pietists abused the hell out of hell, to the point its something people just don't find credible and/or compelling. The idea of God being angry is hard for people to fathom. The idea of God at all is increasingly hard for people to fathom. So I think alot of our churches are just dealing with the basics, experiencing God in the first place. You can deal with the existential crises later, pastorally.

Go listen to some black spirituals, almost never do they talk about hell either. It's possible to be a Christian without sticks and carrots and emotional manipulation being a constant part of your spiritual life.

 

[FireDragon76]

the good news makes little sense without the bad news.

To paraphrase my pastor, some folks have been living with the bad news their entire lives. I think that's why hell is not so popular anymore. We don't need preaching about it, we know it intimately.

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

Here lately I have wondered why I do not hear ANY sermons preached on hell. I grew up Pentecostal and all those years I would hear preaching on hell fire, repent and give your life to Christ. Many times I saw the Holy Spirit convict people during these sermons and they would practically run to the altar. It seems here lately and has been happening for years now that preachers no longer preach on this matter. Why has everything turned into a pretty package, tickle your ears service?? Why have we strayed away from this? The preacher used to pour out his heart to the congregation, pleading the case of Jesus to turn from the wickedness of this world for there is a heaven and there is a hell, choose today who you will serve, repent for the time is drawing near. What happened to this teaching and preaching, it seems it has all but vanished?

God's grace isn't real until His wrath is relevant..

 

[RickyD]

Here lately I have wondered why I do not hear ANY sermons preached on hell. I grew up Pentecostal and all those years I would hear preaching on hell fire, repent and give your life to Christ. Many times I saw the Holy Spirit convict people during these sermons and they would practically run to the altar. It seems here lately and has been happening for years now that preachers no longer preach on this matter. Why has everything turned into a pretty package, tickle your ears service?? Why have we strayed away from this? The preacher used to pour out his heart to the congregation, pleading the case of Jesus to turn from the wickedness of this world for there is a heaven and there is a hell, choose today who you will serve, repent for the time is drawing near. What happened to this teaching and preaching, it seems it has all but vanished?

Good question. Possibly some pastors are focusing on the Grace of God as opposed to the misery of Hell. Some might even desire to train up their congregations as the Christians we are all called to be. Sons and Daughters of the Most High God. Priests, Princes,and Kings. All charged with the very Power of Christ. Fearless, wise, and without effective adversary.

What is Hell, to that? Meaningless.

 

[miknik5]

Tithing has nothing to do with the new testament christian. The storehouse was a literal storehouse and tithing was never money. The spiritual meaning behind my point is that these hirelings serve mammon.

Then let the hireling serve mammon

But that wasn't what those called by THE LORD to "go" were supposed to do

And you're right the tithes to THE LORD had nothing to do with mammon

HE was never building HIS STOREHOUSE by gathering into it money

 

[miknik5]

God's grace isn't real until His wrath is relevant..

Wrong ministry right now

And none were supposed to go above THE ONE WHO IS MASTER AND HEAD over HIS OWN BODY

We entered into a ministry of reconciliation as witnesses pointing to GOD's GRACE found in HIS SON


Isaiah 61 clearly expresses that it is still the year of GOD's FAVOR

 

[miknik5]

You are apparently reading more into my post than is intended.

First lie ever told
Gen 3
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

If you believe that those in hell are burning forever and do not die then you are believing the serpents lie.

They have a worm
That does not die
In order for one to have. Worm that does not die one has to be a viable host

 

[stuart lawrence]

God's grace isn't real until His wrath is relevant..

Eh?

 

[enigmadi]

I think, sadly, the reason we don't hear these sermons in some churches today is because some preachers do not wish to "insult" people and, thus, candy-coat the message.

 

[Saint Nod]

Here lately I have wondered why I do not hear ANY sermons preached on hell. I grew up Pentecostal and all those years I would hear preaching on hell fire, repent and give your life to Christ. Many times I saw the Holy Spirit convict people during these sermons and they would practically run to the altar. It seems here lately and has been happening for years now that preachers no longer preach on this matter. Why has everything turned into a pretty package, tickle your ears service?? Why have we strayed away from this? The preacher used to pour out his heart to the congregation, pleading the case of Jesus to turn from the wickedness of this world for there is a heaven and there is a hell, choose today who you will serve, repent for the time is drawing near. What happened to this teaching and preaching, it seems it has all but vanished?

I agree

I don't know what the right thing is to do but I believe HE is always ready to forgive

We are told to forgive our brother we are told anyone who confesses their sin HE is faithful and just to purify us of all unrighteousness that the one who hopes in HIM purified thenself even as HE is pure

Those who are terrified who have made mistakes Who received the GOSPEL out of fear of hell. What happens to them when and if they sin?

Will they know to come to and keep coming to HIM to be washed

i agree, often sermons are pitched at addressing issues that Christians will likely face in the society they live in. Unfortunately not many people these days consider the eternal consequences of their lifestyles.

 

[Striver]

I can remember the grade school days and reading about Jonathan Edwards' Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God. To read most history books, you would have thought the Puritans and their descendants followed the old Mencken phrase that they were worried about someone, somewhere possibly being happy. While I think Puritan excesses are in play at times, but it's hardly a fair blanket characterization. I began to actually read Edwards some and his spent a good bit of time talking about other things, namely Christ.

Firstly, you have to look at preaching in historical context. In an Agrarian lifestyle, hell is all the more pressing if the local people don't hold up their end of the social bargains. In other words, if the farmers didn't farm and the local blacksmith didn't do his job, it wasn't just a hit to his own family. Thus, hell becomes a bigger focus as a place where you go when you don't do right. A natural continuation on medieval theology and hell, if you will.

Obviously there is room for theological debate on the topic, but the Bible does mention hell a number of times. Now we've switched to a society where the golden rule is personal, individual freedom. Thus the focus on the more immediate, including primarily feelings. Hell is scary. (It well should be, it's the place of punishment and other terrifying descriptions.) Because of associations with judgment and pain, it gets a little left out.

The modern formula is generally to ignore, bypass, or shout down things you don't like. It's just a part of the epistemology of relativism. It leaves us with a church culture chasing the wider culture by calibrating the message. I'm honestly not as tough as my forebears, and so the message has changed to grapple with that. It's less of a shift to be relevant than it is a move to speak the same language, though the former is certainly in play at times.

Hell does need to be in the picture a little more. Part of understanding God is love is understanding what that love keeps us from.

 

[FireDragon76]

I think, sadly, the reason we don't hear these sermons in some churches today is because some preachers do not wish to "insult" people and, thus, candy-coat the message.

My pastor often says he can't talk about certain things or he'll lose half his congregation . But then again I never have really seen him say that's a bad thing. He's not the authoritarian type that thinks everything has to be his way. And I think that's really the issue- hell was a big topic during the times that Christianity was more cozy with authoritarianism and upholding authoritarian institutions. With paternalism and "father knows best" style societies where the serfs were told to obey their often abusive masters. It really makes sense because that's what hell is about, upholding civil morality by talking about a place of final justice for those who have been naughty. But you know, that's a limited sort of religion that most people now days simply do not need. We are good not because we fear hell, but just because it's so much more convenient than sitting in jail for years or just having all the headaches that come with a lifetime of antisocial living.

 

[Kit Sigmon]

That preaching is still available today if you not getting it at where you gather, there's an online site with the preacher Tommy Bates, he preaches boldly and don't shy away from speaking
about hell, repentance, sin an so forth. I hear him online from time to time...I also listen to sermons on:
SermonIndex.net Audio Sermons - Sermon Index

 

[Solomons Porch]

You are apparently reading more into my post than is intended.

First lie ever told
Gen 3
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

If you believe that those in hell are burning forever and do not die then you are believing the serpents lie.

I cannot understand why you feel this way, for I am not believing a lie, I am simply stating that we must be and show compassion to ones pain. Not placing judgement. If i offended you, my apologies for our post, or (my post) to you bothered you and for that I apologize. Blessings I have nothing against your words or you.

And that is the problem, I do believe they are burning and suffering....something I do not want for them.