NO MORE PREACHING ON HELL

[FireDragon76]

Firstly, you have to look at preaching in historical context. In an Agrarian lifestyle, hell is all the more pressing if the local people don't hold up their end of the social bargains. In other words, if the farmers didn't farm and the local blacksmith didn't do his job, it wasn't just a hit to his own family. Thus, hell becomes a bigger focus as a place where you go when you don't do right. A natural continuation on medieval theology and hell, if you will.

Exactly. It's not even so much biblical as much as Medieval Christendom's Great Chain of Being style theology, where everybody knows their place. Well, hell is the place for the bad people. This is getting farther away from the original message of 1st century followers of Jesus, as Light from the East pointed out. Just the sheer wonder of this guy that was murdered for doing all the right things by the Powers that Be and God raising him from the grave in approval of his mission, and his followers seeing this as a sign of his divinity and lordship.

 

[FireDragon76]

i agree, often sermons are pitched at addressing issues that Christians will likely face in the society they live in. Unfortunately not many people these days consider the eternal consequences of their lifestyles.

I've heard sermons at my church, and it's a mainline church (ELCA), that are about this subject (eternal consequences), but it's framed in a modern idiom. You can do that without trying to have a Jonathan Edwards style sermon.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

They have a worm
That does not die
In order for one to have. Worm that does not die one has to be a viable host

I assume you are referring to these verses
Mark 9:44
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mark 9:46
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mark 9:48
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

You must be taking these versus literally based on you response.
Malachi 4:3
And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

"The fire is not quenchable" "everlasting" when the fuel supply is gone it goes out, until then it can not be quenched

Quote from Majors, Manson and Wright (the mission and message of Jesus) "Worm or a maggot "The undying worm is not the symbol of a soul which cannot die but is the symbol of corruption which cannot be purged" In v 43 "life" is set forth in contrast with "the fire that shall never be quenched"
In Rom 6:23 and many other scriptures "life" stands in contrast with "death". In John 3:16 the contrast is between "everlasting life" and "perishing". It is obvious that Jesus here intends the same contrast. "The fire is not quenched" stands in opposition to "their worm dieth not" and is an equivalent expression, yet it seems incongruous that maggots should pursue their work in the presence of fire. There is nothing in the word "worm" that remotely justifies the popular explanation equating "worm" with "soul" a fact recognized by most commentators, what ever they mat think personally about the state of man in death.

Remember what it takes to become a living soul = dust + breath of life. no such thing as a dead soul in the Bible
Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Without the breath of life there is no soul.

 

[FireDragon76]

Nobody has ever equated worms with souls, that seems bizarre to me. The idea is that hell is eternal corruption, not true life. That doesn't negate the traditional Christian belief in "eternal conscious torment".

 

[LeoS]

Meh, some prefer to use fear and anger to bring a person to submission, and some prefer to use love and grace to bring a person to salvation.

 

[miknik5]

In the last days the true sons and daughters of the kingdom will be made manifest by what they do or don't do

I'm that day the TRUE CHURCH, just as it was depicted in Acts 2 will once again be a profound testimony and witness before all men of CHRIST

I think, sadly, the reason we don't hear these sermons in some churches today is because some preachers do not wish to "insult" people and, thus, candy-coat the message.

Can someone tell me what the message is without candy coating it?

 

[miknik5]

Could it be John 3?
Or Acts 2
Or Romans 10
Or John 6

 

[Original Happy Camper]

And that is the problem, I do believe they are burning and suffering....something I do not want for them.

See post #183

My God is a loving God and would never punish one of his children with fire for eternity.

 

[D2wing]

I suppose you could divide Christians by who reads and believes the Bible as opposed to those who listen to those that interpret the Bible. The Social gospel tends to be an interpretation that ignores the hard teaching of the Bible. Like heaven is not all inclusive, there is a judgement and hell. Christianity is about discipline, anybody ever hear of disciples? To serve the master you must master yourself. Something that is unheard of today. Another thing is total commitment as opposed to lip service. The popularity of the heretic movie "The Shack" amazes me." Narrow is the way and few that find it" . As another poster said, we are ministers of reconciliation not Judgement. But that does not mean we can ignore warning people of the peril they are in. Yes Virginia, there is a hell and unless you repent and take up your cross you are going there. Sure it is great to preach the benefits of Christ. But to ignore that a person must become a Christian and be born again is wrong. I am not for making the road to hell comfortable. Some of you are selling what feels good is right. I am amazed by what some people post.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

And that is the problem, I do believe they are burning and suffering....something I do not want for them.

The Bible says the wicked suffer "death" (Romans 6:23), will suffer "destruction" (Job 21:30), "shall perish" (Psalms 37:20), will "burn" up (Malachi 4:1), "shall be destroyed together" (Psalms 37:38), will "consume away" (Psalms 37:20), "shall be cut off" (Psalms 37:9), "shall be slain" (Psalms 62:3). God will "destroy" them (Psalms 145:20), and "fire shall devour them" (Psalms 21:9). Note that all of these references make it clear that the wicked die and are destroyed. They do not live forever in misery.

 

[FireDragon76]

See post #183

My God is a loving God and would never punish one of his children with fire for eternity.

Just snuff them out? I don't know if that's any better, it may even be worse. Annihilationism doesn't make much sense of the Divine Image. I can also see a strange message in believing you can lead a horrible wanton life only to find at the end...nothing. That's effective atheism, as far as I'm concerned, since God made no difference in that person's life, not even in its summation.

I suppose you could divide Christians by who reads and believes the Bible as opposed to those who listen to those that interpret the Bible. The Social gospel tends to be an interpretation that ignores the hard teaching of the Bible.

Social justice is intrinsic to what it means to be a doer, and not just a hearer.

 

[miknik5]

See post #183

My God is a loving God and would never punish one of his children with fire for eternity.

Who was JESUS speaking to when HE said

If you do not believe I AM HE Ye shall die in your sins

Where I am going you can not come

And if you do not believe I AM HE Ye shall die in your sins?

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Just snuff them out? I don't know if that's any better, it may even be worse. Annihilationism doesn't make much sense of the Divine Image. I can also see a strange message in believing you can lead a horrible wanton life only to find at the end...nothing. That's effective atheism, as far as I'm concerned, since God made no difference in that person's life, not even in its summation.

Eternal separation from God
Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

This applies to the first death into the grave awaiting the resurrection and second death that is into the lake of fire.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Who was JESUS speaking to when HE said

The lost

Where I am going you can not come

Heaven

 

[Original Happy Camper]

And if you do not believe I AM HE Ye shall die in your sins?

Into the lake of fire without a resurrection after that.

 

[Heaven's Refuge]

Unfortunately these days we have many preachers who are after getting your money rather than saving your soul. They have taken the Joel Osteen approach with "feel good" sermons.

Think about it.... what do you think would happen to the church goers if the Pastor just came right out and said YOU ARE ALL SINNERS. Half the church would never come back. We know we are all sinners but it offends people if you say it. If the Pastor says GAY PEOPLE WILL CAN NEVER INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD, even straight normal people would exit the back doors. We have some otherwise Christian denominations preaching that there is no literal Hell.

When I am among a group of Pastors introducing themselves to each other for the first time, usually one of the first things they all ask is what is your weekly attendance? In today's crazy world of PC, Pastors are scared to death to touch on topics that offend and can potentially hurt those attendance numbers.

In Canada, it is a federal crime to preach on Romans 1, Leviticus 18 and 1 Corinthians anti gay passages, even within the 4 walls of your church. How long do you think it will be before all that including sermons on Hell is illegal in the states?

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Annihilationism doesn't make much sense of the Divine Image.

Torture for eternity, does that make sense for a Loving God?

 

[Original Happy Camper]

How long do you think it will be before all that including sermons on Hell is illegal in the states?

I think it will be more along the lines of Canada before Hell is Illegal now that the Presedent has the Evangelicals behind him.

 

[dhh712]

Here lately I have wondered why I do not hear ANY sermons preached on hell. I grew up Pentecostal and all those years I would hear preaching on hell fire, repent and give your life to Christ. Many times I saw the Holy Spirit convict people during these sermons and they would practically run to the altar. It seems here lately and has been happening for years now that preachers no longer preach on this matter. Why has everything turned into a pretty package, tickle your ears service?? Why have we strayed away from this? The preacher used to pour out his heart to the congregation, pleading the case of Jesus to turn from the wickedness of this world for there is a heaven and there is a hell, choose today who you will serve, repent for the time is drawing near. What happened to this teaching and preaching, it seems it has all but vanished?

That seems to just be in the mainline churches. They seem to not want to say anything that offends people even though Jesus preached about hell many, many, many times (I'm told more times than he preached about heaven, but then I haven't had the time to do the totals).

I guarantee if you attend an Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America, an Orthodox Presbyterian Church or a Presbyterian Church of America, you'll hear about hell eventually, if not that sermon than surely the next one or two down the road.

 

[dhh712]

Torture for eternity, does that make sense for a Loving God?

Some form of punishment makes sense for a just God.