NO MORE PREACHING ON HELL

[miknik5]

Hi miknik,

Yes. In John chapter 6, as we divide the Scriptures, Jesus speaks of how we must take of his flesh and that his flesh will be given for their lives. Then we are told that a number of his disciples considered such a teaching too hard to comprehend and turned back.

According to Jesus one must eat of his flesh and drink of his blood to remain in him. I believe that he is speaking here more specifically of being in fellowship with him, the Father and the Spirit through the act of communion. Jesus speaks pretty much these exact same words to his disciples as he institutes the practice of the communion of the last supper.

God bless you,
IN Christ, ted

You will note if you read further in John 6 it is noted that

HE already knew who did not believe

John 6:64

 

[miamited]

You will note if you read further in John 6 it is noted that

HE already knew who did not believe

John 6:64

Yes, Jesus knew which of them did not have a personal relationship with the Father, through him and he knew already the one doomed to destruction.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

 

[miknik5]

Yes, Jesus knew which of them did not have a personal relationship with the Father, through him and he knew already the one doomed to destruction.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

Do you think this has changed today?

Or

Do you think JESUS still today already knows who believes in HIM from those who do not believe?

 

[Monna]

Do you think JESUS still today already knows who believes in HIM from those who do not believe?

John 17:12
"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

If he knew then, I am quite sure he knows now. He intercedes for his people constantly before the throne of God. (Romans 8:34)

1 Timothy 2:5
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;"

See also Hebrews 9:15.

 

[Greyy]

Here lately I have wondered why I do not hear ANY sermons preached on hell. I grew up Pentecostal and all those years I would hear preaching on hell fire, repent and give your life to Christ. Many times I saw the Holy Spirit convict people during these sermons and they would practically run to the altar. It seems here lately and has been happening for years now that preachers no longer preach on this matter. Why has everything turned into a pretty package, tickle your ears service?? Why have we strayed away from this? The preacher used to pour out his heart to the congregation, pleading the case of Jesus to turn from the wickedness of this world for there is a heaven and there is a hell, choose today who you will serve, repent for the time is drawing near. What happened to this teaching and preaching, it seems it has all but vanished?

Your father loves you, but if you don't do as he says, he'll make you suffer literally forever.

That's an abusive relationship. That's how people from bad homes understand God.

 

[Monna]

Your father loves you, but if you don't do as he says, he'll make you suffer literally forever.

I stood on the parapet 25 floors up and intended to jump.
My father, who loves me dearly, said "Don't jump! If you do you will go splat on the sidewalk before."
Talk about an abusive relationship!

When a child doesn't heed the warning about touching the hot stove (or the command as the child understands it), is it her mother who punishes the kid by burning it, when it touches the stove anyway? Or is the unavoidable consequence of the child's action?

Should the mother have kept quiet so as not to be blamed for punishing her child, or what she right to warn her child of the consequences?

And how does the mother react afterwards? Does she said "stupid child, I told you so. Now you can suffer for your disobedience!" Or does she take the child, hold its fingers under the cold water tap, gently put balm on the wound, and comfort the child with loads of love?

 

[miknik5]

I stood on the parapet 25 floors up and intended to jump.
My father, who loves me dearly, said "Don't jump! If you do you will go splat on the sidewalk before."
Talk about an abusive relationship!

When a child doesn't heed the warning about touching the hot stove (or the command as the child understands it), is it her mother who punishes the kid by burning it, when it touches the stove anyway? Or is the unavoidable consequence of the child's action?

Should the mother have kept quiet so as not to be blamed for punishing her child, or what she right to warn her child of the consequences?

And how does the mother react afterwards? Does she said "stupid child, I told you so. Now you can suffer for your disobedience!" Or does she take the child, hold its fingers under the cold water tap, gently put balm on the wound, and comfort the child with loads of love?

Thank you
So
Do those who hear their father yelling and threatening them come to know HIM as a GOOD and LOVING FATHER?

Or should they hear exactly what HE said:

Come to me all you who are weary and heavy laden take MY YOKE upon you and learn of ME

For I am humble and meek of heart and you shall find rest for your souls

 

[Monna]

Come to me all you who are weary and heavy laden take MY YOKE upon you and learn of ME

The Spirit draws people to God in many ways, and through many mechanisms. Some definitely come to the Lord because they are trying to escape something (e.g. through hell fire preachers, including those who don't present the full Gospel), including heavy burdens of guilt or self-doubt; some because they are in the depths of depression, worry, suffering from loneliness, coming to the realisation that there must be more to life than "this drudgery." The Spirit works with the individual and he can use any appraoch that he wants. There is no "one size fits all." At the same time I believe he only uses "methods" that are consistent with the ends he wishes to achieve.

Jesus used the above quote in one situation. He also told the Samaritan woman that he could quench her thirst; he told others that he was the bread of life who could permanently fill our hunger. His constant work as a healer, a restorer of sight and hearing, or healing the lame, are also beyond the physical healings, indicatrions that he can open the eyes of the searcher, open the hearing of the spiritual deaf, he can give us the spring of life to our lameness, restore our broken lives, be our hope, our ultimate goal and meaning in life! He meets us where we are, and answers our individual needs.

From personal experience I currently believe that "hell fire preaching" and the use of fear to scare me into the kingdom, scarred me for decades, and it has only been through his revelation to me of the mutuality of the meaning of love in a relationship that has begun to repair the damage fear as done in my life. So in answer to your question, if we emphasise the angry, threatening God, we may find it extra difficult to reorient the picture of God as Jesus portrayed him during his life here.

I have never found relationships easy. Probably for many reasons, but fear in several different guises has been one factor. Thinking through 1 Cor. 13 asGod's self-portrait finally made a powerful impact on me. Ordinary people usually think of God in terms of omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence. In this chapter he makes it clear that what HE wants us to envisage him as in a loving God. Omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence are (in his own view) of no value unless applied in and with love. Then he defines love for us. And I read that 'he believes in me' (you believe in the one you love, and he loves me!). I have always been encouraged to "believe in God" so to understand that he believes in ME, that he never gives up on me, that he always gives me the benefit of the doubt - this was the beginning of the end of my fear of him. But the journey is still going on...I still have a long way to go. He has been working on a 'good plan' for me from the outset, and it is a major regret that I didn't understand this a long long time ago.

 

[Monna]

Do those who hear their father yelling and threatening them come to know HIM as a GOOD and LOVING FATHER?

We can see God's word to Adam and Eve in Eden in either of two ways, of even in both.
Don't eat of that fruit because you will die, as surely as I live. (a command with a threat)
Don't eat of that fruite because if you do the natural consequence will be death (as warning of the consequence).
It is difficult to disengage the principles embodied in the concept of "trust and obey."
If they had understood and accepted the warning, they would have obeyed. They didn't believe and they disobeyed.

I personally favour the warning and the disbelief, mostly because our relationship with God is one of belief. God wanted a relationship with humans based on love. There cannot be a forced love, love must be a choice to be real - and therefore there had to be free will. And if he were to build the relationship on command alone, there would be less room for love.

But I also acknowledge the link between "trust and obedience." We know he loves us and wishes our best. Therefore we can be sure that any warnings he gives are given in love, not as threats.

 

[Solomons Porch]

The Spirit draws people to God in many ways, and through many mechanisms. Some definitely come to the Lord because they are trying to escape something (e.g. through hell fire preachers, including those who don't present the full Gospel), including heavy burdens of guilt or self-doubt; some because they are in the depths of depression, worry, suffering from loneliness, coming to the realisation that there must be more to life than "this drudgery." The Spirit works with the individual and he can use any appraoch that he wants. There is no "one size fits all." At the same time I believe he only uses "methods" that are consistent with the ends he wishes to achieve.

Jesus used the above quote in one situation. He also told the Samaritan woman that he could quench her thirst; he told others that he was the bread of life who could permanently fill our hunger. His constant work as a healer, a restorer of sight and hearing, or healing the lame, are also beyond the physical healings, indicatrions that he can open the eyes of the searcher, open the hearing of the spiritual deaf, he can give us the spring of life to our lameness, restore our broken lives, be our hope, our ultimate goal and meaning in life! He meets us where we are, and answers our individual needs.

From personal experience I currently believe that "hell fire preaching" and the use of fear to scare me into the kingdom, scarred me for decades, and it has only been through his revelation to me of the mutuality of the meaning of love in a relationship that has begun to repair the damage fear as done in my life. So in answer to your question, if we emphasise the angry, threatening God, we may find it extra difficult to reorient the picture of God as Jesus portrayed him during his life here.

I have never found relationships easy. Probably for many reasons, but fear in several different guises has been one factor. Thinking through 1 Cor. 13 asGod's self-portrait finally made a powerful impact on me. Ordinary people usually think of God in terms of omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence. In this chapter he makes it clear that what HE wants us to envisage him as in a loving God. Omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence are (in his own view) of no value unless applied in and with love. Then he defines love for us. And I read that 'he believes in me' (you believe in the one you love, and he loves me!). I have always been encouraged to "believe in God" so to understand that he believes in ME, that he never gives up on me, that he always gives me the benefit of the doubt - this was the beginning of the end of my fear of him. But the journey is still going on...I still have a long way to go. He has been working on a 'good plan' for me from the outset, and it is a major regret that I didn't understand this a long long time ago.

Beautifully written and explained clearly and understandably God Bless

 

[miknik5]

We can see God's word to Adam and Eve in Eden in either of two ways, of even in both.
Don't eat of that fruit because you will die, as surely as I live. (a command with a threat)
Don't eat of that fruite because if you do the natural consequence will be death (as warning of the consequence).
It is difficult to disengage the principles embodied in the concept of "trust and obey."
If they had understood and accepted the warning, they would have obeyed. They didn't believe and they disobeyed.

I personally favour the warning and the disbelief, mostly because our relationship with God is one of belief. God wanted a relationship with humans based on love. There cannot be a forced love, love must be a choice to be real - and therefore there had to be free will. And if he were to build the relationship on command alone, there would be less room for love.

But I also acknowledge the link between "trust and obedience." We know he loves us and wishes our best. Therefore we can be sure that any warnings he gives are given in love, not as threats.

HE knew and knows from the beginning who would come to HIM through faith directed in and on HIM and HIS provision

Eventhough we are not and can never be perfect had HE not done for us what we could not do for ourselves

 

[miknik5]

We can see God's word to Adam and Eve in Eden in either of two ways, of even in both.
Don't eat of that fruit because you will die, as surely as I live. (a command with a threat)
Don't eat of that fruite because if you do the natural consequence will be death (as warning of the consequence).
It is difficult to disengage the principles embodied in the concept of "trust and obey."
If they had understood and accepted the warning, they would have obeyed. They didn't believe and they disobeyed.

I personally favour the warning and the disbelief, mostly because our relationship with God is one of belief. God wanted a relationship with humans based on love. There cannot be a forced love, love must be a choice to be real - and therefore there had to be free will. And if he were to build the relationship on command alone, there would be less room for love.

But I also acknowledge the link between "trust and obedience." We know he loves us and wishes our best. Therefore we can be sure that any warnings he gives are given in love, not as threats.

The Spirit draws people to God in many ways, and through many mechanisms. Some definitely come to the Lord because they are trying to escape something (e.g. through hell fire preachers, including those who don't present the full Gospel), including heavy burdens of guilt or self-doubt; some because they are in the depths of depression, worry, suffering from loneliness, coming to the realisation that there must be more to life than "this drudgery." The Spirit works with the individual and he can use any appraoch that he wants. There is no "one size fits all." At the same time I believe he only uses "methods" that are consistent with the ends he wishes to achieve.

Jesus used the above quote in one situation. He also told the Samaritan woman that he could quench her thirst; he told others that he was the bread of life who could permanently fill our hunger. His constant work as a healer, a restorer of sight and hearing, or healing the lame, are also beyond the physical healings, indicatrions that he can open the eyes of the searcher, open the hearing of the spiritual deaf, he can give us the spring of life to our lameness, restore our broken lives, be our hope, our ultimate goal and meaning in life! He meets us where we are, and answers our individual needs.

From personal experience I currently believe that "hell fire preaching" and the use of fear to scare me into the kingdom, scarred me for decades, and it has only been through his revelation to me of the mutuality of the meaning of love in a relationship that has begun to repair the damage fear as done in my life. So in answer to your question, if we emphasise the angry, threatening God, we may find it extra difficult to reorient the picture of God as Jesus portrayed him during his life here.

I have never found relationships easy. Probably for many reasons, but fear in several different guises has been one factor. Thinking through 1 Cor. 13 asGod's self-portrait finally made a powerful impact on me. Ordinary people usually think of God in terms of omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence. In this chapter he makes it clear that what HE wants us to envisage him as in a loving God. Omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence are (in his own view) of no value unless applied in and with love. Then he defines love for us. And I read that 'he believes in me' (you believe in the one you love, and he loves me!). I have always been encouraged to "believe in God" so to understand that he believes in ME, that he never gives up on me, that he always gives me the benefit of the doubt - this was the beginning of the end of my fear of him. But the journey is still going on...I still have a long way to go. He has been working on a 'good plan' for me from the outset, and it is a major regret that I didn't understand this a long long time ago.

And I believe Romans 8
And I believe there is only ONE GOSPEL preached

Not many
And I know that THE SPIRIT glorifies THE SON
And I know no one can come to THE SON unless THE FATHER enables it

And I know if THE FATHER enables it no man can snatch him out of HIS HANDS

 

[miknik5]

I know some more things too

I know no one can come to THE FATHER except through the SON

That no one knows the FATHER e except THE SON and those to whom THE SON chooses to reveal HIM

And finally:

That anyone who comes to THE SON HE will in no wise cast out


If..,only....

We knew THE GIFT OF GOD