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Discussion in 'Biblical Archaeology' started by sampa, May 24, 2007.

  1. Ajax 777

    Ajax 777 God is the Truth, not an opinion. Supporter

    Moving right along... :)
  2. The_Joker

    The_Joker New Member

    I was actually very interested to see the response to my questions and problems with your "facts". But, I suppose, none will ever come. That satisfies me, actually, since my motivation for posting was based on the attitude I thought was improper.
  3. ~GodsMouthpiece~

    ~GodsMouthpiece~ Senior Member

    So you decided M to make things aright?...lol;)
  4. Ajax 777

    Ajax 777 God is the Truth, not an opinion. Supporter

    Right. :)
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  5. SummaScriptura

    SummaScriptura Forever Newbie

    As an interested observer, Ajax 777 owes the Joker an answer to his questions. Its only the proper thing to do in an online discussion. This is not the place for posts in which people write with the appearance of great authority when apparently there is none.

    If you decide not to answer Joker's queries, then your information is nothing more than one person's ideas.

    The idea that "Metanbucko" is anything other than a humanly-manufactured concept should either be defended by you or discarded by us.

    If you have an authoritative source for your ideas, let us know.

    Beliar (Belial) is mentioned once by that name in a typical Protestant 66-book Bible, where Paul seems to use it as an alternate title for the adversary of souls.

    There is no clear delineation in scripture, even when we add in the extra Old Testament books, of the organizational heirarchy of angels holy and fallen and the realm of the demonic. All attempts to figure out those heirarchies are speculation. When speculating, we should begin by stating, "my opinion is..." or "I think", etc

    None of us can rightly claim to be handing down "facts" as if graven in stone by the finger of God.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  6. Ajax 777

    Ajax 777 God is the Truth, not an opinion. Supporter

    Okay...I was only sharing information as it was given me,
    by murjahel. If you'll read up the posts a bit, you'll see me state this,
    and re-iterate it. I am not the writer of the articles or the teacher,
    just a friend who has copy-and-pasted his material...

    This poster, "Joker," is the sock of someone on this board,
    who has a personal agenda against myself, and I know who they are.

    Again, this is NOT my teaching.
    All teaching info posted by me, was the property of
    and posted with the permission of, MURJAHEL.

    So, if you have any questions or comments
    related to the teachings,
    kindly direct them to MURJAHEL.

    Now, if you have some OTHER issue with me, such as my refusal
    to be bullied by "Joker," then kindly address it as such.
  7. ~GodsMouthpiece~

    ~GodsMouthpiece~ Senior Member

    I saw that right off..Im sorry to say that not many people "actually" read around here...Brother Ajax never claimed authorship of the writings, nor did he claim to be an expert. ..You would also think Summa that your own studies of non-canonical writings such as Enoch would have brought you to a considerable conclusion on the hierarchy of fallen angels, and nephillium.
  8. The_Joker

    The_Joker New Member

    Both you and Murjahel have made this discussion far too personal. It was like that before I replied, and it ends that way also. The questions are legitimate and not "bullying". What justification is there for the idea that Belial is a Nephilym? Why should we believe that Belial is the "Prince of this World"? Why should we believe that Belial possessed Alexander the Great, and will possess the anti-Christ? When a writing is so large and full if alleged scriptural references and 'facts', one would think you could answer questions regarding certain points. Points, by the way, which appear to be more assertion than anything else. If I am the boogieman with a "personal agenda", what better way to get back at me than to defeat me in a simple battle of ideas? And if these other people are "insulting", stupid, or heretical, why don't you stick it to them by supporting your research? I know it is not yours, however, if you're going to post it one would think you'd understand it well enough to defend it. The questions I asked aren't hard. It isn't advanced physics. It isn't even algebra. All it is is asking for the souces of information that you pulled that from, the basis for your theories, the origin of this new theology on Belial etc. If Murjahel's book perhaps a fictional tale? If so, it will probably do very well. The whole fallen angel/human thing is all very fascinating. Giants, bigfoots, Vampires, warewolves, they all just 'click' together in some part of the human mind. We, as humans, also live to make order out of things that seemingly have no order. To solve all the mysteries of the world and to go where no one else has ever gone. That is why we are always trying to make "classifications" of this or that, even of Heaven and Hell! However, in the end, like the other poster noted, it is all mere speculation. It is all, in the end, a futile attempt to make sense of something that "no man has seen". In fact, I would even venture to say that human attempts to "classify' the heavens and the world of spirits has served only to degrade it, to twist it into something that is not as gloriously mysterious and beautiful as it really is, though, naturally, I can't know anything about how beautiful it "really is", but what I mean is that the "image" of heaven, that high place where no one (living) has seen, is degraded when man brings it down to Earth. That undefined concept is wonderful, that defined human concept often becomes stupid or filthy. Why should we give to something human order and understanding when even God never saw fit to do that?
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  9. SummaScriptura

    SummaScriptura Forever Newbie

    Thank you for the clarification.
  10. SummaScriptura

    SummaScriptura Forever Newbie

    I believe the Book of Enoch is true.

    I have read it some amount of times. As yet a concrete picture of such a heirarchy eludes me.

    Please, GMP, chapters and verses would be most helpful. I am amenable to a change of mind, but not without chapters and verses.

    I don't consider Enoch non-canonical in the least.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  11. Ajax 777

    Ajax 777 God is the Truth, not an opinion. Supporter

    Well, Jo... you have my "source" quoted.
    I copied-and-pasted because the post
    was germane to the thread subject.

    You do not believe God's written word to be God-breathed, irrefutable evidence
    of God's revelation to mankind? ...Or do you just believe that those few men
    whom God used to write the Bible were able to understand their writings,
    and the rest of us are mere daydreamers?

    If you want to debate the teachings posted, you can debate with the teacher.
    I simply shared part of what he has taken the time to compile with anyone
    who had a genuine interest... You have already confessed that your motives
    in posting in this thread were not because you were interested, but because
    you thought yourself fit to come in and "fix" something which had already
    been resolved... That is so very like you.

    I know you have an axe to grind,
    but I guess you'll just have to swim with it.

    If you're REALLY interested in the facts of the teachings,
    then talk to the guy who taught it, which is Murj.
    But I am otherwise not going to derail this thread
    just because you have nothing better to do.

    Oh, BTW...I took Physics and Trig in high school. :)
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  12. The_Joker

    The_Joker New Member

    Which apparently didn't improve your chances here at this 'farce' of a discussion. I pointed out that the scriptures you or Murjahel cited didn't even mention Belial, and I asked for justification for the claims that Belial is a half angel half human who possessed Alexander the Great and will possess the anti-Christ. I pointed out that the scriptures you cited had absolutely NOTHING to do with what you were using them to justify. Then you come back at me as if in another world and start talking about not believing the eternal word of God and being "like" this or that? I'm sorry, but I'm not even sure if we're on the same planet anymore. They're simple questions, I shouldn't have to go to the "teacher" to get an answer. If you quoted his work, you agree with it, so then why won't you answer a simple question like: "Where did you get the idea that Belial possessed Alexander and is a Nephilym, and is the Prince of this world"? Or what book he was quoting when he said (9:11)? It's not pulling teeth. But, I won't try anymore, since apparently we are not having the same discussion!
  13. Ajax 777

    Ajax 777 God is the Truth, not an opinion. Supporter

    No, very few things do improve one's chances
    against someone who is unteachable and
    dishonestly argumentative.

    But, hey, you tried.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  14. Ajax 777

    Ajax 777 God is the Truth, not an opinion. Supporter

    And for anyone who is reading this thread who genuinely wants the answer to Joker's query:
    I will, in the next few days or so, do my best to compile the answer.
    If Joker really wants an answer, he shall have one; and if anyone else's curiosity was piqued,
    then you deserve an answer, as well. More later.
  15. The_Joker

    The_Joker New Member

    Have at it, but I have no interest in being demonized further because I objected to this Belial theology. Good luck going to Israel in search of ancient buried scrolls and stone tablets that might prove your theories. I'm pretty sure it's going to take alot longer than a few days... And I pity the next guy who replies to you two.
  16. ~GodsMouthpiece~

    ~GodsMouthpiece~ Senior Member

    You dont see a Hierarchy here?

    6 And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. 2And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: "Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children."
    3And Semjâzâ, who was their leader, said unto them: "I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin."
    4And they all answered him and said: "Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing."
    5Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. 6And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it.
    7And these are the names of their leaders: Samîazâz, their leader, Arâkîba, Râmêêl, Kôkabîêl, Tâmîêl, Râmîêl, Dânêl, Êzêqêêl, Barâqîjal, Asâêl, Armârôs, Batârêl, Anânêl, Zaqîêl, Samsâpêêl, Satarêl, Tûrêl, Jômjâêl, Sariêl. 8These are their chiefs of tens.
  17. Kerwin

    Kerwin Newbie

    According to how I interpret scripture the nephillium were a hybrid of two species of man. The first species were the children of Seth called the children of God and the second species of man were the children of Cain. I believe that we are the descendants of the nephillium since we presently seem to suffer under the curse of Cain.

    The purebred children of Seth would not be cut off from God’s presence and yet we are. We know though that we are also descended from Seth as Noah was one of his decedents

    I do not know of any pre-flood archeology evidence. I am not even sure we know where to look for it. If someone knows please direct me to it.
  18. jamescarvin

    jamescarvin dummie

    Eastern Orthodox
    I have been spending the past week pouring through Council canons and acts in search of the assertion, stated by Murjahel, that the decision to exclude Enoch was simply a toss up between Enoch and Revelation and Revelation won because there was just not enough room for both.

    I have read no less than 400 web sites and also the canons and acts and commentary from the Post-Nicene fathers collection I have. I have still not been able to find what Murjahel is referring to. I trust that he did not simply make this up. I could use a little help, as I have exhausted my resources at this point and need to move on.

    I already did list through the canons given at various times beginning with the most ancient, which is the Muratorian. The gist on the issue of canonicity is that the church preferred the LXX to the Hebrew canon so even though various books were debated clear through Trent so that the whole church did not share the same canon, Enoch was never a part of the consideration, except of course, by the Ethiopians, who also accepted Jubilees and 3rd and 4th Esdras, and even a 3rd Macabees. Those look to the "authority" of the Ehtiopian Orthodox bishops who chose to include these books in the canon in order to justify Enoch, for whatever their personal agendas may be, really ought to think about what that authority really means. Are you now becoming Orthodox or Coptic? If you are I don't have a problem with that. Its just that calling on their authority and dumping them at the same time seems to me a bit of an acrobatic trick.

    Anyway, the idea that there was some sort of toss up is not popping up at me at all. Enoch was not a consideration in anything I've read. If you read back a few pages on this thread you will see that I carefully combed through all of the early church fathers on their opinion and use of Enoch. I also asked Murjahel, who has been active on this thread to supply anything I may have missed. So far, he has not done so. Sources are very important to me.

    One thing I found was that there are a lot of people quoting eachother on the web. I have seen it stated numerous times that "many copies" of the Enoch were found in Qumran and that "many" and even "most" of the early fathers accepted it. Clement of Alexandria is invariably listed as one who quoted it. Yet, my research is finding not a single quote or endorsement by Clement and a meagre number of quotes and references and fewer endorsements by other ECFs. Click here for what I found. I am still waiting for Murjahel to add to this list.

    It is amazing what you will find on the Internet. I have seen SDAs talk about the Council of Laodacea (364 A.D.) excluding Enochj like some plot because it supports the Sabbath. I have even found an atheist quote a council's authority in order to prove that Jesus was in error by believing the book to be canonical.

    Laodacea did not list Revelation, but did list Baruch and 2 Esra.

    I have been wondering which council or discussion surrounding one Murjahel was referring to. Since the conversation seems to center on Augustine and Augustine was a leading bishop in several North African Councils from Hippo through Carthiage 3, at the least I would have thought I might find something there, but none of these councils appears to have mentioned any toss up between Enoch and Revelation. A canon is given of the LXX at Hippo. Carthiage (probably 419 A.D.) ratified this and forwarded the proposal to Rome. We all know that Pope Damasus 1 overrode Jerome and we wound up with the same books that were ultimately affirmed at Trent.

    In the search for the opinions of Augustine, what I found is as follows:

    Augustine writes in Book 15, Ch. 23 of the City of God:

    "In the third book of this work (c. 5) we made a passing reference to this question, but did not decide whether angels, inasmuch as they are spirits, could have bodily intercourse with women. For it is written, Who makes His angels spirits, that is, He makes those who are by nature spirits His angels by appointing them to the duty of bearing His messages. For the Greek word ἄγγελος, which in Latin appears as angelus, means a messenger. But whether the Psalmist speaks of their bodies when he adds, and His ministers a flaming fire, or means that God's ministers ought to blaze with love as with a spiritual fire, is doubtful. However, the same trustworthy Scripture testifies that angels have appeared to men in such bodies as could not only be seen, but also touched. There is, too, a very general rumor, which many have verified by their own experience, or which trustworthy persons who have heard the experience of others corroborate, that sylvans and fauns, who are commonly called incubi, had often made wicked assaults upon women, and satisfied their lust upon them; and that certain devils, called Duses by the Gauls, are constantly attempting and effecting this impurity is so generally affirmed, that it were impudent to deny it. From these assertions, indeed, I dare not determine whether there be some spirits embodied in an aerial substance (for this element, even when agitated by a fan, is sensibly felt by the body), and who are capable of lust and of mingling sensibly with women; but certainly I could by no means believe that God's holy angels could at that time have so fallen, nor can I think that it is of them the Apostle Peter said, For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment. 2 Peter 2:4 I think he rather speaks of these who first apostatized from God, along with their chief the devil, who enviously deceived the first man under the form of a serpent. But the same holy Scripture affords the most ample testimony that even godly men have been called angels; for of John it is written: Behold, I send my messenger (angel) before Your face, who shall prepare Your way. Mark 1:2 And the prophet Malachi, by a peculiar grace specially communicated to him, was called an angel. Malachi 2:7."

    And on the valid elements of Sacred Tradition in the Book of Enoch, he admits:

    "Let us omit, then, the fables of those scriptures which are called apocryphal, because their obscure origin was unknown to the fathers from whom the authority of the true Scriptures has been transmitted to us by a most certain and well-ascertained succession. For though there is some truth in these apocryphal writings, yet they contain so many false statements, that they have no canonical authority. We cannot deny that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, left some divine writings, for this is asserted by the Apostle Jude in his canonical epistle. But it is not without reason that these writings have no place in that canon of Scripture which was preserved in the temple of the Hebrew people by the diligence of successive priests; for their antiquity brought them under suspicion, and it was impossible to ascertain whether these were his genuine writings, and they were not brought forward as genuine by the persons who were found to have carefully preserved the canonical books by a successive transmission. So that the writings which are produced under his name, and which contain these fables about the giants, saying that their fathers were not men, are properly judged by prudent men to be not genuine; just as many writings are produced by heretics under the names both of other prophets, and more recently, under the names of the apostles, all of which, after careful examination, have been set apart from canonical authority under the title of Apocrypha. There is therefore no doubt that, according to the Hebrew and Christian canonical Scriptures, there were many giants before the deluge, and that these were citizens of the earthly society of men, and that the sons of God, who were according to the flesh the sons of Seth, sunk into this community when they forsook righteousness. Nor need we wonder that giants should be born even from these. For all of their children were not giants; but there were more then than in the remaining periods since the deluge. And it pleased the Creator to produce them, that it might thus be demonstrated that neither beauty, nor yet size and strength, are of much moment to the wise man, whose blessedness lies in spiritual and immortal blessings, in far better and more enduring gifts, in the good things that are the peculiar property of the good, and are not shared by good and bad alike. It is this which another prophet confirms when he says, These were the giants, famous from the beginning, that were of so great stature, and so expert in war. Those did not the Lord choose, neither gave He the way of knowledge unto them; but they were destroyed because they had no wisdom, and perished through their own foolishness."

    Please understand that in providing these findings that I am not seeking to discredit anyone. I am honestly looking for sources because I find the claims to be very interesting. I am assuming at this point that I have just missed it and that Murjahel has some sources he will be willing to provide to substantiate his claims.

    I would also ask that other posters in this thread try to stick to the facts as it seems the subject has been somewhat derailed. Obviously, there is a debate about whether demons can mate with women and produce the "sons of God." A look at Job shows them in council with satan before God.

    The Lord Himself, God being Spirit, has become flesh born of a virgin. This seems like the perfect reversal of what we find in the Nephilim. I have never seen an angel that I am aware of and do not have an opinion at this time about whether Enoch is inspired or whether fallen angels can bear human/demon cross breeds. As this is an archeology forum I suppose what we might be looking for are the bones of the giants, but apparently the possibility exists that since these may be demons we are talking about, they may neither have been wiped out in a flood nor decomposed. I would suppose, being demons, even the half-breeds, that they live in hell if not among the powers of the air. And that would explain why we can't find them. I'm not opposed to some of the theories that might explain this and will be examining Enoch very closely in the coming days. I've now heard a very great variety of opinion on the subject.

    I will add another thought though, which is entirely my own. When Paul visited "the third heaven" he spoke of "such a one." And he said regarding this one, "whether in the body or out of the body I do not know."

    This is the same Paul who speaks of things being sown in one fashion and raised in another, yet each after its own kind.

    My point here is that when the heavenly and the fleshly are joined there is another kind of glory that pertains to the fleshly. We are not simply raised, and raised incorruptible, we are like the angels. We are already aware from Scripture that we have no canonical questions to dispute that the Lord was raised and that He ascended into heaven and that when He ascended into heaven he vanished from our site. At that point we were able to know that He was always with us, but not by site, only in faith and in the Holy Spirit, who comforts and guides us into all the truth.

    Now many have claimed to have seen Him and many others have claimed to have seen angels at times. I place no judgment on such appearances. I do see them as a kind of distraction though, given the fact that the Lord said "blessed are those who have not seen and yet believed." The constant vision of the Lord in faith by the Holy Spirit is something we should all cultivate both in ourselves and in those around us. Such cultivation takes place simply by asking that we may be born again from heaven.

    You see how the whole idea of the Nephilim is a reversal of this?

    Eschatology also fits into this question, even where Belial may already have possessed the antichrist. If this has happened I don't doubt it. I don't know. But one thing I do know. The cure for it is Jesus. But to "know" him not just intellectually but really, in the unity of the Holy Spirit. We look ahead and see a great tribulation period on the horizon and our inspired Bibles, even just counting 66 books, points to demons coming up out of the abyss. It is a frightening time. But the fear is gone when we realize we have a Savior who Shepherds us at all times. This one becomes the King so that Psalm 2 becomes true. The antichrist and the kings of the earth are devising a "vain thing" - riyk - nothingness against YHWH and his Meshiach. The one who sits in the heavens laughs at them. "But as for me I have installed MY King on Zion, my holy mountain. I will surely tell of the decree of the Lord. He said, 'Thou art my Son. Today I have begotten Thee. Ask of me and I will give Thee the nations as an inheritance, even the ends of the earth as Thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron. Thou shalt shatter them like earthenware."

    I could go on. My point is that the Lord will reign over the earth. In my opinion, this reign takes place in two stages, one before and one after the Sabbath Millennium begins. By the Holy Spirit, we as Christians are already the ones reigning as Sons in Zion. Obviously, we do so at this time in an incomplete way without our King returning in the flesh to bind satan for a thousand years. Satan is only partially bound at this time at best. On this issue Augustine was definitely at variance with the earlier church fathers.

    I thought that I might offer some hope-filled thoughts to this thread. Keep your eyes on Jesus. Focus your attention on your heart. Make sure you are always inviting the Holy Spirit there. You will know His Spirit by the love He puts in you there.
  19. Ajax 777

    Ajax 777 God is the Truth, not an opinion. Supporter

    Sound advice.
  20. murjahel

    murjahel Senior Veteran

    there is an Antichrist to come....
    a man.....
    but this man, will be inhabited by an evil spirit...
    and we are told some about this evil spirit in the Bible, and in history...
    There is a being, named BELIAL,
    which are the offspring of when angels cohabited with women,
    creating a race of giants, whose spirits now, being
    part ANGELIC, part HUMAN SPIRITS are evil and powerful spirits...
    Belial is the one called "the ruler of this world".
    The Bible refers to him:
    as "the prince of this world" (John 12:31, 16:11),
    and as "the god of this world" (II Cor. 4:4).
    He is the head of the "rulers of the darkness of this world".
    Ephesians 6:12 shows different levels of evil spirits.
    "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against:
    principalities (fallen arch angels)
    powers (fallen angels)
    rulers of the darkness of this world (half-angelic, half human spirits)
    wicked spirits in the heavenlies... (pre-adamite human spirits of a creation before Adam)."
    In the book of Genesis, and in other books, as Enoch,
    we see a story told of the fall of some evil angels
    who co-habited with women of this earth.
    This produced a race of giants, which were half-angelic, and half human...
    Their spirits are powerful evil spirits.
    Genesis 6:1,2,4
    "And it came to pass,
    when men began to multiply on the face of the earth,
    and daughters were born unto them,
    that the sons of God (angels) saw the daughters of men
    that they were fair;
    and they took them wives of all which they chose...
    There were giants in the earth in those days,
    and also after that,
    when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men,
    and they bare children to them,
    the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."
    The evil angels, who created this attempt to corrupt the seed
    from which the Messiah would come,
    were later bound in the abyss.
    II Peter 2:4-5
    "For if God spared not the angels that sinned,
    but cast them down to hell (tartarus, a term used in Greek mythology
    for the place where Chronos and the rebel Titan (giants) were bound),
    and delivered them into chains of darkness,
    to be reserved unto judgment,
    and spared not the old world, but saved Noah,
    the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness,
    bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly..."
    Jude 6-7
    "And the angels which kept not their first estate,
    but left their own habitation,
    He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness
    unto the judgment of that great day.
    Even as Sodom and Gomorrah,
    and the cities about them in like manner,
    giving themselves over to fornication,
    and going after strange flesh,
    are set forth for an example,
    suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."
    The angels who "left their first estate" to commit this "fornication"
    were bound in the abyss...
    The giants born to them lived and died on this earth...
    Many died in the flood, but "after that" first sinful time,
    after the flood, some angels again co-habited with women,
    and more giants were born...
    Descendants of these giants were still in the land of Israel
    when Joshua led the children of Israel back to the promised land...
    One of the post-flood giants born was named "Nimrod"...
    The nature of his birth is often missed.
    Note what the Scriptures show us:
    Genesis 10:7-9
    "And the sons of Cush;
    Seba and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raaman,
    and Sabtechah, and the sons of Raamah; Sheba and Dedan.
    And Cush begat Nimrod;
    he began to be a mighty one (Heb. "gibbore" = mighty one, used of the giants born to women seduced by a fallen angel) in the earth.
    He was a mighty (gibbore) hunter before the Lord
    (in the presence and awareness of the Lord);
    wherefore it is said,
    Even as Nimrod the mighty (gibbore) hunter before the Lord
    (in the presence and awareness of the Lord)."
    The Scriptures tell us that the angels tried this fornication again
    after the flood,
    but here we see who one of the first ones
    to be born of this sinful union of angels and women of the earth...
    Note in the "sons of Cush", there are five listed...
    and then it says that "Cush begat Nimrod".
    The Hebrew word for "begat" is "yalad", and means "deliver".
    As a midwife would deliver a child
    without being the conceiver of such child,
    so Cush delivered this child from his wife.
    This was a different wife than the mother of Cush's other sons.
    It was Rhea (Damkina), that he took to wife in his old age...
    unaware that she was half human, half angelic.
    She later was impregnated by one of the fallen angels named Ea...
    The Scripture is trying to make clear that Nimrod was a 'gibbore',
    but our translation loses much meaning...
    Three times in the next several verses,
    the word "mighty" (gibbore) meaning "mighty one"
    and used to refer to the gigantic off-spring of angels is employed.
    Nimrod, ruled the earth for 185 years (Jasher 27:16)...
    He established his kingdom "in the land of Shinar".
    The Babylonians called him "Bel-Merodach" and "Marduk",
    but the Hebrew corruption of the name became "Nimrod"...
    Later, the constellation known as "Orion"
    was honored as representing this half-human, half-angelic being...
    The book of Jasher records more of the earthly life of Nimrod
    than does the Bible...
    From it we learn that Nimrod tried to have Abraham killed several times.
    Following a sinful and evil reign,
    Esau killed Nimrod, by beheading him..
    The garments made for Adam by God,
    and indicating the right to rule the world for God,
    had been stolen from Noah by Ham,
    and given then to Cush, who gave them to Nimrod...
    Esau took these from Nimrod...
    The spirit of Nimrod remained loose to deceive, to rule, and to seek
    worship down through the ages...
    This leader of these giant beings
    was one called by many names throughout history.
    We shall use the name "Belial"...
    He was worshipped as "Baal" much in history.
    For the church age, he has been bound in the abyss,
    but will shortly be freed to inhabit the Antichrist during the tribulation period.
    The Antichrist is called "the king of Babylon" (Isaiah 14:4)
    and the Antichrist is connected with the "mystery Babylon" of Revelation 17:3-5.

    Nimrod was the original king of Babylon,
    and his spirit will inhabit the human last king of rebuilt Babylon.
    The Antichrist parallels the evil described of the Antichrist
    in II Thessalonians 2:4:
    "exalt himself above all that is called God,
    or that is worshipped, so that he as God,
    sitteth in the Temple of God, showing himself that he is god..."
    In Revelation 17:3, we see "a scarlet covered beast".
    This beast is Belial.
    He is the "beast out of the abyss" referred to by John in Revelation.
    He is an evil spirit, who will use the Antichrist
    to restore the old Grecian empire as the eighth kingdom.
    Belial leads the ten kings, and directs the Antichrist to "make war with the Lamb".
    "Belial" (from the Hebrew - Bal-ya-al - meaning
    "a being of no ascent or resurrection")
    is actually his title.
    His name is "Metanbuchus" which is from the two Hebrew words
    "mattan bukah" meaning "the gift of the abyss".
    This one is part human and part angelic spirit
    (from the angels that co-habited with women in Genesis creating a race of giants).

    "He dwelt in the heart of Manasseh" (Apoc. of Isaiah 9:11),
    he also inhabited Alexander the Great (according to the prophecy of Daniel).

    Later Jesus bound him to the abyss.
    Someday, he will be released to inhabit the Antichrist.
    He is the "gift" of the abyss.
    A dreadful and horrible "gift" to return to this earth,
    but like his name - Metanbuchus - he has a destiny for these last days.
    There is no resurrection for this Belial, and others like him,
    other angelic/human spirits.
    The Psalmist prophesied that some would think
    that Christ was inhabited by such a being,
    and therefore, they did not need to fear His resurrection.
    Psalms 41:8
    "An evil disease (literally =Belial) say they cleaveth fast unto him,
    and now that he lieth he shall rise up no more."
    Isaiah 26:13-14
    "O Lord our God, other lords beside Thee have had dominion over us,
    but by Thee only will make mention of Thy name.
    They are dead, they shall not live;
    they are deceased (Rephaim, a name of the giants created
    by the fornication of angels with women),
    they shall not rise!
    Therefore, hast Thou visited and destroyed them,
    and made all their memory to perish."
    The term "sons of Belial" is used often in the Old Testament
    (Deut. 13:13, Judg, 19:22, 20:13, I Sam. 1:16, 2:12, 10:27, 25:17, 25, 30:22, II Sam. 16:7, 20:1, 23:6, I Ki. 21:10, 13, II Chron. 13:7).
    Revelation 17:11 tells of different kingdoms,
    five came before John's day,
    Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece...
    The sixth kingdom was the Roman kingdom which existed in John's day...
    The seventh kingdom is the one of ten kings making up the old Roman empire...
    The demon, Belial,
    is the one who inhabited and empowered Alexander the Great,
    and built the old Grecian empire, the fourth kingdom.
    When Jesus came, He sent "Belial" to the abyss,
    and this evil spirit has long awaited his release to inhabit
    the ruler of the last kingdom.
    We have not had to face this evil being,
    since when Jesus came, His death and resurrection meant a binding
    of this Belial to the abyss until the last days.
    Jesus came, in His first coming, to cast this Belial into the abyss.
    John 12:31
    "...now shall the prince of this world be cast out..."
    When the Spirit came at Pentecost,
    Belial had already been judged and imprisoned into the abyss.
    John 16:11
    "of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged..."
    He is confined now, until this release to restore first the
    Grecian empire,
    then the old Roman empire...
    This part angelic, part human spirit, that once had a body we call 'Nimrod'
    but now is an evil spirit we call Belial... and is bound in the abyss...
    explains this verse....
    Revelation 17:8
    "The beast that thou sawest was,
    and is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit,
    and go into perdition (the man of sin, i.e. the Antichrist)"
    Apoc. of Isa. 10:2
    "Belial, the evil demon who rules this age since its inception
    as the king of demons, will come from his place (the abyss)
    and inhabit the likeness of man, and dwell in a lawless king..."
    This evil spirit called 'Belial' is now bound, not free any longer...
    but will be freed to come and inhabit, and empower the Antichrist...
    Revelation 11:7
    "The beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit
    shall make war against them
    (the two witnesses) and shall overcome them and kill them..."
    II Thessalonians 2:3 speaks of:
    the "man of lawlessness"
    and "he that opposes and exalteth himself against all that is called God..."
    Many believe that "man of sin (or lawlessness)" is a reference to Belial,
    and the other a reference to the Antichrist.
    That makes this a reference to the Antichrist as one possessed by Belial.
    Dan 2:10-11
    "...there shall rise unto you from the tribe of Judah and of Levi,
    the salvation (Yeshua) of the Lord,
    and He shall make war against Belial"
    This Belial was an opponent of Christ.
    Belial has shown great antagonism against God and
    Jesus throughout history.
    II Cor. 6:15
    "What concord hath Christ with Belial?"
    Revelation 13:1 speaks of a "beast" that will "rise out of the sea"
    representing the evil spirit (Belial) that inhabits the Antichrist.
    This Belial will be utterly defeated during Armageddon,
    and the Millennial rule of Jesus will be void of this Belial.
    Revelation 19:19
    "And I say the beast, and the kings of the earth,
    and their armies, gathered together
    to make war against Him that sat on the horse,
    and against His army."
    Isaiah 14:4-6:
    "...The Lord hath broken the staff of the 'wicked one' (Belial),
    ...he (Belial) that ruled the nations in anger is persecuted, and none hindereth..."
    In the scheme of the devil to bring about one who he hoped could defeat
    the promised Messiah...
    the devil used
    1. a daughter of mankind
    2. a fallen angel (Babylonian records call him 'Ea")
    their sexual union resulted in
    3. Rhea (a half angelic, half human being..)
    4. Ea or another fallen angel conceived with Rhea, another child...
    Rhea had been taken to wife of Cush, but he only 'delivered the child...
    it was not his son...
    5. This son was named Nimrod, and the Bible indicates he was
    of the angelic seed... When Nimrod died, this part angelic spirit became ruler of the spirits of part human, part fallen angel beings...
    Now we come to the number 6 person involved in the devil's plot...

    The number six person in the plot was Manasseh...
    the devil had the evil spirit, Belial inhabit Manasseh...
    Manasseh was the most wicked of all the kings of Israel...
    but in the end, he turned to God...
    so the devil's plot to use number 6 person was a failure...
    So the devil looked for a second number 6 person...
    and he chose Alexander the Great...

    Alexander the Great was wicked, evil, powerful...
    and he was inhabited by Belial...
    but in the end... he committed suicide...
    So the devil's attempt to have some number 6 person to be ready to defeat

    the promised 'Seed of woman' to come and defeat him...
    The devil is awaiting a chance to have this evil spirit, Belial
    inhabit a third number 6 person...
    But Belial was bound in the abyss by Jesus ...
    and he awaits his release during the trib. to inhabit and empower someone to
    oppose Christ....
    II Thess. 2:7-8
    For the mystery (Greek = musterion, meaning 'secret')
    of iniquity (Greek = anomia, meaning 'lawless one')
    doth already work (this refers to the scheme of the devil to empower some man to oppose Jesus... having two failures to have the number 6 person in the plan ready...)
    Only he who now letteth (hinders) will let (hinder) (referrring to the church who hinders evil spirits by being able to cast them out, and into the abyss)
    until he be taken out of the way (the church will be raptured, and then the evil spirit will return to inhabit the Antichrist... the third number 6 person... i.e. the number
    666 person...
    And then shall that Wicked One (Greek = anomos = lawless one, referring again to Belial)
    be revealed (Greek = apolalupto , meaning 'unveiled, having the cover removed)
    whom the Lord will consume with the spirit of His mouth,
    shall destroy (Greek = katargeo meaning make of no effect, make vanish away)
    with the brightness of His coming."
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2008