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Mysteries within the Word of God

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Hervey, Feb 11, 2002.

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  1. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "There is no such thing as three are one, or three in one, anywhere, in the whole Word of God ! "

    yes there is..ice, water and vapor are three, but all have the formula H20. Sorry, you're (going along with my analogy) wet Hervey. ;)
     
  2. chagal was here

    chagal was here jack's raging bile

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    and the heresy is revealed.....
     
  3. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    Louis:

    H2O proves again also that there is no trinity ! It there was a triune god that made and created everything, then everything would be triune, but it is not !

    Even H2O is only made up of two differing parts hydrogen and oxygen.

    And God gave you only two arms and two legs and two eyes , etc !

    10 fingers and 10 divided by 7 leaves a remainder of 3 and 3 means complete - none other.

    And your two hands are mirror imgages of each other ! :)

    And the Word is written in just this way !

    God created Man (Adam) both male and female, and any second grader can count to two ! ;)

    L I C - Hervey
     
  4. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "It there was a triune god that made and created everything, then everything would be triune, but it is not ! "

    Another false statement. if you want to go further with this...not all things are made are in 2s..for example, what is the opposite of God? or a dog? There isnt' one.

    You're a gnostic through and through...and your doctering falls under the warning Paul gave us in col 2:8 so away with you :)
     
  5. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    Ah Louis, you just love me being around - admit it ! ;)

    L I C - Hervey
     
  6. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    yeah, but I could do without the numbers stuff....I do enjoy your posts as they are light hearted, just not the content :)
     
  7. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    Louis:

    Would you like to know what I find interesting about numbers ? It is the fact that numbers do not lie !

    The Word tells us to let God be true , and every man a liar.

    Does 1 + 1 + 1 =1 or = 3 ?

    Do you see how simple it is to spot a fraud ? While words on the other hand, can cause deceit in many different ways. A great deceiver can twist words in such a way, that one has to be very sharp in order to pick out what part of what he said is truth and what is not truth. A great deceiver can slip something past the hearer very easily. That is , unless the hearer has the ears of Christ !

    Numbers don't lie !

    L I C - Hervey
     
  8. rkbo

    rkbo Member

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    Hervey what is 1x1x1? That's right ..... one. How can you limit God or pretend to understand his nature. He is beyond our limited mind. Infinite intellect is just that infinite. We can only apprehend what God reveals and he does not use numerology. He reveals himself in three persons and yet claim there is no God besides him. We have to grab this in a Trinitarian way......there is no other way to do it.
     
  9. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    rkbo:

    What is 1 x 1 x 1 x 1 x 1 x 1 of anything ? One right ? Opps , is that too many one's for you to reason out in your mind ?

    The trinity doctrine says - 3 in one, and there is no record within the Word to defend this false doctrine with !

    Jesus Christ said that the Father and I are one. Simple math 1 + 1 = 2 or in this case 2 become one in the unity of the mind, purpose, strength, soul, heart.

    Jesus Christ said, I speak not of myself, but the Father that dwelleth in me - John 14:10 - he doeth the works.

    John 14:20 - "At that day ye shall know that I in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you"

    Lets look at this verse -- Christ is in the Father, and we Christians , are in Christ, and Christ is in us.

    We as Christians have both (two) the Father and Christ as their abode. John 14:23 - "If a man love me (as a brother), he will keep my words : and my Father will love him, and "we " will come unto him, and make "our " abode with him".

    As Christians - we have -- God(who is the Father) - IN Christ(who is the Son) - IN us !

    John 14:28 - "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice because I said, I go unto the Father ; for my Father is greater than I "

    Again we need to look at logic here. How can Jesus Christ be God, and the Father be greater than he is ? Logic tells us that this is impossible !

    The Word tells us that God is a God that changes not ! And if we assume that Jesus Christ is God, then by shear logic he would have to change, in order to be less than the Father !!

    Keep it simple !

    God is the Father of all - Ephesians 4:6

    Jesus is the son of man

    Christ is the Son of the living God - the only begotten Son of God.

    And we who have Christ IN us, are Christians, which makes us sons of God, because God put the spirit of his Son into our hearts crying Abba Father - Galatians 4:6

    L I C - Hervey
     
  10. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "It is the fact that numbers do not lie !
    "

    wrong again, you can mathematically prove that the factorial of one is zero and that 1+1=0. Take some upper level college math like differential equations. I was baffled when I saw this.

    "And if we assume that Jesus Christ is God"

    *sigh* its not an assumption, it says it in the word. The Logos is Christ's name (to put it another way) pre-being made flesh. He was made flesh, and was God. Its all in John 1. Funny how you meantion eps..in 2:22 it also shows that the HS is God as well....
     
  11. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    Louis:

    What I have shown you is simple math. Math that a fifth grader can do. Where 1 + 1 = 2

    There is not one verse in the Word that claims that Jesus is God - not one ! Yet you throw out verses like water , expect me to understand.

    If I was to tell you that baptism was in Galatians 2:1 , and if you tell me that you can not see anything about baptism in Galatians 2:1, does that mean that I am to consider you blind spiritually, or that you can not read ? Or could it be that if I made such a statement, that it would be I that see's something that is not there in Galatians 2:1 ? ?

    You said that in Ephesians 2:22 is the trinity, and that Jesus is God -- Where ? I don't see anything , that would give anyone even the hint of an idea that this verse shows us that Jesus is God !!

    Christ came in the flesh Louis , and we are to believe that Christ came in the flesh, and Christ was the Son of the living God. Read I John 4:15 & I John 4:3 = Jesus Christ is the Son of God -- who came in the flesh, and whosoever believes this --- "is of God " !!

    L I C - Hervey
     
  12. rkbo

    rkbo Member

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    Here's the thing Hervey. We have gone over all this before. We have answered all your verses and have shown that Jesus is God. He was subject to the father and that did not make him "not God" we have shown before that Jesus said the Father was greater than he using a military term as a General is higher than a private, but not better. We have gone through it all but you will not listen. You use all the Jehovah's Whitnesses arguments that don't wash.

    If God has to fit in a box for you, so that you can fully understand his nature, you will have a limited God. There is only one reason you reject the truth and that is because you are the one that is "Blind" believing cleverly divised tales of deciept. You need to humble yourself and come to Jesus as your Lord and your God.
     
  13. Phoenix

    Phoenix Senior Member

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    Hervey, have you read Isaiah Chapters 40 thru about 66 ?
    Especially 48:16-19 ? Who is speaking Jesus or God ?
     
  14. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    Phoenix:

    Answer to question #1 - Yes

    Answer to question #2 - Isaiah the Prophet is speaking for God, by way of prophecy.

    L I C - Hervey
     
  15. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    rkbo:

    God has given us His Word in order that he may reveal himself unto us. If you want to call God's Word a box, go right ahead, but that is a funny way of explaining a God that wants us to know him as he is , according to His Word ! Remember - The Word is God, and God is His Word !

    God limites himself to His Word, and will never go back on any of the promises He has made, or the explanations that He has give to us from His Word !

    And it is you that will not listen to what the scriptures say ! If God changes not, then he changes not !

    You are willing to change God , in order that your doctrine can be explained according to your worldly wisdom.

    God and His Word is not complicated ! It is simple !

    There is only One God , and he had a Son, and his name is Christ. Christ prays to God who is the Father of all, including His only begotten Son.

    I am not sure if you have a son or not, but simple logic will reveal unto you, that you are not your son, and your son is not you ! And God created and made man in His own image and likeness.

    You and others are the ones that want to make understanding God and who he is, complicated and confusing --- not I !!

    L I C - Hervey
     
  16. Phoenix

    Phoenix Senior Member

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    One of many commentaries on Isaiah 48:16 taken from the Blue Letter Bible on this site:

    16. not . . . in secret-- ( Isa 45:19 ). Jehovah foretold Cyrus' advent, not with the studied ambiguity of heathen oracles, but plainly.

    from the time, &c.--From the moment that the purpose began to be accomplished in the raising up of Cyrus I was present.

    sent me--The prophet here speaks, claiming attention to his announcement as to Cyrus, on the ground of his mission from God and His Spirit. But he speaks not in his own person so much as in that of Messiah, to whom alone in the fullest sense the words apply ( Isa 61:1 Jhn 10:36 ). Plainly, Isa 49:1 , which is the continuation of the forty-eighth chapter, from Isa 48:16 , where the change of speaker from God ( Isa 48:1, 12-15 ) begins, is the language of Messiah. Luk 4:1, 14, 18 , shows that the Spirit combined with the Father in sending the Son: therefore "His Spirit" is nominative to "sent," not accusative, following it.
     
  17. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "There is not one verse in the Word that claims that Jesus is God - not one ! Yet you throw out verses like water , expect me to understand. "

    Well, if you're a christian you do..that is spoken about in eps...1:8 "and he made know to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure which he purposed in Christ."

    John chapter 1 clearly shows Jesus is God.


    "Christ came in the flesh Louis , and we are to believe that Christ came in the flesh, and Christ was the Son of the living God. Read I John 4:15 & I John 4:3 = Jesus Christ is the Son of God -- who came in the flesh, and whosoever believes this --- "is of God " !!
    "

    You obviously haven't read Pslams 2 that clearly shows the title "Son of God" is a title of authority. It shows that this title doesn't mean that Christ is inferior to the Father. John chapter 1 also shows that Christ is God. Just read the chapter, its very easy to see. I urge you her to acutally read about jewish culture to understand the meaning of the title Son of God. The jewish people of that day worshiped Christ because they knew the title mean he was claiming authority of God, ie claiming to be God in the flesh. Christ is God, col 2:8-9
     
  18. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    Louis:

    You make off the wall comments that you do not back up with scripture. When you say that the Son is not inferior to the Father, you are saying that they are equal in all things. But we have already gone over the fact that they are not equal in all things !

    Here is just another example -- I Corinth. 11:3 - "the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man ; and the head of Christ is God"

    In this verse, if Christ is equal to God, then man would be equal to Christ and the woman would be equal to the man. And none would be inferior to the other. I would call that kind of thinking idolatry.

    But if you accept what it actually is saying , according to the purpose of God , that shows us His order of things, then you will see who is the head of whom !

    #1 - God
    #2 - Christ
    #3 - Man
    #4 - Woman

    Now you say that the trinity is in the revealed Mystery . And that one could find it in Eph. 1:9 ??? And now you are claiming that only christians can see the trinity in these verses you quote, and one can only be a christian if they confess that Jesus is God ???? When are you going to show clearly from scripture all these off the wall comments of yours ??

    Colossians 2:9 - "Godhead bodily" =

    God - over all
    Head - Christ over his body
    Bodily - Body of Christ and wife to Christ

    John chapter 1 - No trinity in there either ! Are you going to show me the trinity in this chapter Louis ?

    L I C - Hervey
     
  19. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    Two's

    Exodus starting with chapter 25 and continue reading through Leviticus chapter 24:6 Look at all the two's !!

    Everything written aforetime is for our learning - Rom. 15:4

    A false balance is an abomination .

    God is a God of balance throughout His Word, and three can not be in balance as far as the trinity is concerned !!

    The pure, undefiled Word of God is consistent through and through.

    Leviticus 24:6 shows balance - "And thou shalt set them in two rows , six on a row, upon the pure table before the Lord" = perfect balance !

    There were eight souls saved upon Noah's ark - 4 men and 4 women = balance

    The same with the animals that went into the ark.

    There is leaven and unleaven bread -- no third - only two !

    You can be hot or cold = 2 for God, but you can not be a third --- lukewarm , or God will spue you out of his mouth - Rev. 3:16

    Trinitarians love to show only two crucified with Christ , "so that " the literal eyes see three including Christ. But the truth is, is that there were two crucified on either side of Christ, and Christ in the midst, making five total.

    Three railed upon Jesus with their words , only two did not rail back - #1 - Jesus Christ and #2 - the malefactor that said to Jesus to remember him when he comes into his kingdom and Jesus promised him paradise.

    Three railed ------ Two did not rail back !!

    God is a God of two of everything !!

    L I C - Hervey
     
  20. Aikido7

    Aikido7 New Member

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    Believers who claim that they have a unique reverence for and subjection to the Bible--who claim that their version of Christianity (and theirs alone) is truly biblical and that the Bible itself is inerrant--have tacitly abandoned the authority of Scripture in favor of a conservative Protestant theology shaped largely in the 19th century.

    This fundamentalist theology they buttress with strings of quotations to give it a biblical flavor, but it predetermines their reading of Scripture so completely that one really cannot speak of the Bible as having any independent voice in their outlook.

    This "half-conscious Biblicism" in much of American Christianity wants to treat the texts as infalllible and, therefore, identical with God. The Bible itself says not a word about its own supposed infallibility and our pilgrimage as Christians is not served by using Scripture as a "proof text" to show how wrong someone else is.

    This squabbling over competing voices can be dampened by going back to the words and deeds of Jesus in their authentic form. Jesus' Kingdom of God showed once and for all that the Divine is accessible to anyone anywhere. Whether setting up Messiahs to idolize or placing tables in the Temple courtyard, we are putting up obstacles to faith.

    The curtian in front of the Holy place has already been torn in two.

    When are we going to really realize this?
     
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