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Mysteries within the Word of God

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Hervey, Feb 11, 2002.

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  1. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "When you say that the Son is not inferior to the Father, you are saying that they are equal in all things. But we have already gone over the fact that they are not equal in all things ! "

    What part of phil 2:5-8 did you miss...? "Who being in the very NATURE of God...." John chapter 1..logos is God Jesus is Logos therefore Jesus is God.

    "I Corinth. 11:3 "

    *sigh* context. its not talking about essenice or power in that passage. Get a clue dude ;)

    "And now you are claiming that only christians can see the trinity in these verses you quote, and one can only be a christian if they confess that Jesus is God ???? "

    Nope, nonchristians can clearly see it, but true christians always know its the truth.

    '"Colossians 2:9 - "Godhead bodily" =

    God - over all
    Head - Christ over his body
    Bodily - Body of Christ and wife to Christ "

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha..

    Okay, you have no knowledge of greek at all do you?

    John chapter 1 shows that Christ is God. Read the chapter, a 10 year old can spot it..can you? ;)
     
  2. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    Louis:

    From your explanations, I have come to the conclusion that you are spiritually discerned.

    This does not mean that you can not have the eyes of your understanding become enlightened. It means that for the time being, you are spiritually ignorant of the scriptures.

    In Philippians 2:6 the word "form " does not mean nature!

    The greek word for "form" is - "morphe" and is "only" translated "form".

    Maybe you should study these things more before making unwarranted comments ! ?

    A spirit has a form, but a spirit can not be seen with the physical eyes. He was in the form of God = a spirit, for God is Spirit. Even angels are in the "form " of God = spirit

    In Col. 2:9 - "Godhead" - greek word - "theotes" Not "theos". The word "Godhead" means God over or head ----- I Corinth. 11:- "the head of Christ is God"

    L I C- Hervey
     
  3. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "It means that for the time being, you are spiritually ignorant of the scriptures. "

    *sigh* according to scriptures no christian is spiritually ignorant of scripture. Sorry, you're in the false teachers catagory now. :) Read eps chapter 1 along with col chapter 2.

    "He was in the form of God = a spirit, for God is Spirit"

    *sigh* so the burning bush wasn't God then? What a joke. Is you're name ed? God is spirit but takes on other forms when relating to us. One such instance is when christ took on a bodily form to dwell among us as described in chapter 1 of John's gospel.

    "In Col. 2:9 "

    No, the word used here is to denounce the summation of the Godhead, ie trinity. This verse simply put means Jesus was God.
     
  4. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    Paul told Christians that he did not want them to be ignorant of spiritual things. Until this explanation, they were ignorant of spiritual things, and they were Christians at that paticular time Paul mentioned that he would not want them ignorant of spiritual things - I Corinth. 12:1 - whole chapter. But don't stop reading there, as you will be ignorant of what it says in chapter 13, but don't stop there, keep reading. Because if you were to stop reading after chapter 13 , then you would be ignorant of what it says in chapter 14.

    Your ignorant Louis of spiritual things, but I don't want you to be ignorant of spiritual things. That is why I point out truth to you, so that you can accept truth and reject it. Mostly from what I have seen, you have been rejecting truth.

    And -- no -- the burning bush was not God ! God used the bush to talk through, because no man has seen God at any time ! Are you going to reject this truth also Louis ?

    And --- God does not take on other forms. He uses different things and examples, but does not take on those forms ! We can read where God talked to certain people by using the wind to go through the trees , which made words that were discernable by the men listening, and they understood the words that were being manifested by the wind that went through the trees.

    God uses a cloud to give an example that he is there with them. But God is not the cloud ! Exodus 16:10 -- Exodus 19:9 --- Numbers 11:25

    Accept or reject truth, it is totally up to you Louis

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  5. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "Paul told Christians that he did not want them to be ignorant of spiritual things. Until this explanation, they were ignorant of spiritual things"

    WILLFULLY ignorant, big difference.

    "Your ignorant Louis of spiritual things"\

    *sigh* no, because your "spiritual" things aren't of christ, they are gnostic in nature and depend on the traditions of men and manipulating numbers, nothing more. They aren't spiritual truths.

    "And -- no -- the burning bush was not God ! God used the bush to talk through, because no man has seen God at any time ! Are you going to reject this truth also Louis ? "

    *umm...you haven't read that passage have you? Its made VERY clear that it was God present there, not just using the bush. Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, If you want to reject the truth, that's your business, though i wouldn't recommend it.

    "And --- God does not take on other forms. He uses different things and examples, but does not take on those forms ! "

    They you deny what John 1 says, and deny the bible. Logos is God, Logos became flesh. Sorry to tell you God became flesh.

    God also came down in the form of a cloud over the tabernacle. I think you need to spend less time messing with numbers and more time reading God's word.
     
  6. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    So I see you reject truth once again. It does not surprise me however. Most people will not back down from a stance that they have taken, even if the truth has been handed to them on a silver platter.

    Exodus 3:2 - "And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush "

    Louis, this verse ? The one which says that an angel of the Lord appeared unto him ? Where is God in this verse ?

    Everything you read in verses 4 thru chapter 4 and verse 17 was prophesy by way of this angel, who was speaking directly for God.

    This is just one other thing you need to try and understand Louis ! ;)

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  7. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    I think you misunderstand. Go check the hebrew of that passage and look how it says, "God says X.." in the passage. yes, He appeared in the form of a fire, Just as Christ appeared in the form of a man, ie Christ is God. :) you're getting there, slowly but surely...

    Her. The point is, God took form on this earth and revealed himself to people. Moses saw his robe as God passed by. He can take form, to say he can't is to limit him. In genesis you see this. God made noise WALKING through the garden. You still have to address how he came into the tabernacle.
     
  8. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    Louis:

    When you say - "He appeared in the form of fire" -- Who does the "He" in you sentence represent ?

    I will help you get there Louis , don't worry ! ;)

    L I C - Hervey
     
  9. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    Louis are you on vacation from the forums for a day or two ? :D

    L I C - Hervey
     
  10. Aikido7

    Aikido7 New Member

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    What meaning can be left when the fullness of the divine is reduced to a few dozen compressed words?

    What purpose is served by men's argument about human interpretation of history? And by pointing out the bit of sawdust in our brother's eye without first taking care of the wooden plank in our own eye first?

    What we need from history are images and words that focus, maybe a detailed story that stands for many stories, plus sayings and learnings which might not convey all meaning, or even be literally true, but can open eyes and hearts to deeper meaning.

    None of our opinions about the Bible could withstand detailed scrutiny. Every claim and counter-claim can be refuted by someone. But taken as a whole, for what they are, the various books of the Scripture can
    convey enough meaning to stir listeners to action.

    I remember walking the battlefield at Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, one summer evening after tourists had gone. I came to Cemetery Hill, where on July 3,
    1863, 12,000 Confederate troops trying to cross 1,000 yards of open ground were stopped by Union troops firing canister into their faces. They came within a few yards of breaching the Union line, but were forced to retreat.

    The details of that three-day battle would fill more volumes than the heart could bear to read. The accounts of historians are sobering enough. But
    nothing is clearer than standing on Cemetery Ridge next to one of the cannon, whose barrel is not pointed upward in an arc but is aimed chest-high where men once stood. Another few yards, and American history becomes a different story.

    Four months later, President Lincoln spoke 285 words at Gettysburg. Among them this quite erroneous assertion: "The world will little note, nor long
    remember, what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced."

    In fact, the nation remembered the speech vividly, but it neglected to learn from the battle or the war that it turned. The Confederacy was broken, but then the nation began 100 years of terror, inter-regional hatred and racial warfare that were still going on when, as a child, I first memorized Lincoln's Gettysburg Address.

    I don't want to reduce the Gospels to Presidential
    speeches. But if we Christians are to make any progress in finding oneness with each other or in fostering goodness and justice in our communities, we
    have got to stop fighting about Scripture.

    We have gottten stuck in the political and forgotten the social. Too many believers are acting from a "performance model" of relating to God instead of a "relationship model."

    To do that, I think we must recognize that the Gospels are not a detailed account of everything Jesus said and did. They are not history. They are not factual truths to beat another believer over the head with--no matter how "nice" we try to do so from a "holier than thou" stance. They are not a transcription.

    The Gospels present images, critical incidents, moments like standing on Cemetery Ridge when larger reality became clearer. Like the six presenters recounting four years of experience, each evangelist offered his own
    tapestry of meaning. The four accounts do not agree with each other, nor, I suspect, do they fully convey the man or his story.

    Their point was always to encourage action: examining one's own life, dedicating oneself to Jesus' unfinished work, daring to set aside enmity and to pursue justice. Not to memorize speeches, not to build memorials, but to learn from sacred history so that human history might be made better.

    Our battles over Scripture, like fussy re-enactments of Civil War battles, are no substitute for action.
     
  11. soulsisterclaire

    soulsisterclaire JESUS DIED FOR YOU & ME

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    That was definately written in love Aikido7, I wish that Hervey was here to see it...sadly he was banned...now he may never grasp the "TRUTH" :(
     
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