My Abraham Challenge

[miknik5]

Good luck DoubtingMerle...May you remove from your heart and mind every thing that hinders you in searching with a pure heart and mind the TRUTH of THE GOSPEL of THE SON of GOD

 

[doubtingmerle]

You sir believe you are wiser than GOD and because of it the TRUTH will be kept from you

Why are you making up stuff that you know is not true?

I don't know if God exists, but if he does, then almost by definition he would be smarter than me.

Is it too much to ask that you refrain from making up things about other people and posting them here?

 

[doubtingmerle]

HE will say blessed are those who have not seen and believe.

He will just evade the question? That's odd.

I would not expect that behavior from God.

 

[doubtingmerle]

GOD, in HIS WISDOM has done it that way sir.

I see. God in his wisdom has decided he won't forgive unless somebody first kill his son? Strange behavior, that.

Are you sure the people who told you this about God are telling the truth?

 

[miknik5]

HE did not hide HIS TRUTH sir

HE gave it

You do not accept it
You want "another way"

And there is no other way

 

[miknik5]

There is nothing I can tell you I can't change THE TRUTH

I can't adjust it. I can't alter it

If I did it wouldn't be THE TRUTH

 

[Alla27]

And if God says to fly a plane full of people into a building, then in your view it is morally right to fly the plane into the building, and morally wrong to land the plane safely, yes?

My view? Is my view always the true view? If "yes" how can I know this?
(These are rhetorical questions).

I remember this :
every time God YHWH tells to do something
1)His motif is not evil motif
2)it is for good
3)He knows what I don't know. It means that my judgment can be wrong.

And if God says to set off a nuke, or rape, murder ans pillage, well, then you say to do it?

I say that "to kill someone" is neither immoral nor moral. If I kill someone in self-defense is it moral or immoral?
You may judge God YHWH's actions but your judgment may be wrong and unfair when you do NOT know motif of God YHWH and when you know NOTHING about ETERNAL principles.

And why should you do these things that most people consider evil?

Because God YHWH is my authority NOT mortal IMPERFECT people who know NOTHING about ETERNAL principles. Motif - this is what makes many choices moral or immoral.

Is it because he is the most powerful being, and might makes right?

It is because He knows what is good for our ETERNAL PROGRESS and what is bad.

It seems to me that, if the most powerful being says to do wrong, it is still wrong.

is it wrong to stick a needle(source of great physical pain and great fear) in the toddler?

 

[-57]

My boss is able to change my wages. Why couldn't an all powerful God also change the wages he pays? Who is forcing God to pay for sin with the wages of death?

One would think that an Almighty God could forgive, even if people didn't kill his Son. Why is it that God cannot forgive unless somebody kills his Son?

What should the cost of forgiveness be?

 

[-57]

How did Abraham know he heard God? How could he possibly know that the voice he was hearing was the God of the universe?

It's quite simple, if you hear a voice claiming to be God, and telling you to kill your son, don't do it.

Like you, I wasn't there. So I don't know how Abraham knew he was hearing from God.. But, what we do know is that he did.

Now, if you feel the need to claim it wasn't God..then so be it.

 

[-57]

Wait, what? You say this in response to, "My worldview precludes murder and human sacrifice."

So your worldview also precludes killing your son and sacrificing him?

Can I remind you that in a previous post you said:



So once again, if you are certain you hear God telling you to kill your son as a sacrifice, would you do it? You told me you would do it, but here you say your morality precludes human sacrifice. So which way is it? Would you kill him or wouldn't you?

Absolutly. If God told me to kill my son...Abraham style...I would like to think I would obey the soverign Lord.
Now, am I going out to kill my son? No. But you keep suggesting I would which is getting tiresome.

 

[Alla27]

So the test is if Abraham would do that which would be morally wrong for you and I to do

No. The test was if Abraham was willing to make the greatest sacrifice.
The same sacrifice God Himself had to do about 2000 year ago. God sacrificed His Son Jesus Christ. Abraham could understand that God loved him so much that He would sacrifice His Son in the future for Abraham's sake.
Sacrifice is expression of love.

 

[doubtingmerle]

What should the cost of forgiveness be?

It varies.

Suppose a friend does something that hurts you and asks your forgiveness. If he offers restitution, what would you expect of him before you forgive him? It varies.

But I know one thing you would not do. You would not tell him that, if he wants your forgiveness, he must kill your son. You would not tell him, that after he has killed your son, then you could forgive him.

But somehow we are to believe that God could not forgive us until his son was killed. That makes no sense.

 

[doubtingmerle]

No. The test was if Abraham was willing to make the greatest sacrifice.
The same sacrifice God Himself had to do about 2000 year ago. God sacrificed His Son Jesus Christ. Abraham could understand that God loved him so much that He would sacrifice His Son in the future for Abraham's sake.
Sacrifice is expression of love.

The test was whether Abraham would set out to do that which is wicked, to kill his son.

The Bible says Abraham set out to kill his son, and that God praised him for setting out to do this think I consider evil. That is the problem.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Absolutly. If God told me to kill my son...Abraham style...I would like to think I would obey the soverign Lord.

If you were convinced God told you to rape, would you rape?

If you were convinced God told you to fly a plane full of people into a building, would you do it?

If you were convinced God told you to set off a nuke, would you do it?

 

[Alla27]

The test was whether Abraham would set out to do that which is wicked, to kill his son.

The test was whether Abraham has enough FAITH or TRUSTED God enough to make that kind of great sacrifice.
We know from the Bible that God did NOT want Abraham to kill Isaak. That was not what God needed.

The Bible says Abraham set out to kill his son, and that God praised him for setting out to do this think I consider evil. That is the problem.

God was praising Abraham for being ready to give his son to Him. God was praising Abraham for readiness to do what Abraham hated to do. What is real sacrifice? Real sacrifice is to give something you really don't want to give. It is to do something you really don't want to do. God wanted to test faith of Abraham and to know if Abraham was willing to give Him the most precious cargo. His beloved son.
That kind of test was only for Abraham. God does not give anybody else this test.

 

[-57]

It varies.

Suppose a friend does something that hurts you and asks your forgiveness. If he offers restitution, what would you expect of him before you forgive him? It varies.

But I know one thing you would not do. You would not tell him that, if he wants your forgiveness, he must kill your son. You would not tell him, that after he has killed your son, then you could forgive him.

But somehow we are to believe that God could not forgive us until his son was killed. That makes no sense.

It's hard to argue with someone who doesn't undertand biblical forgiveness. For example many were forgiven prior to Christ death.

I also noticed you seem to keep forgetting that the wages of sin against God is eternal death.

Also we should forgive someone who hurts us even if they don't offer restitution.

 

[-57]

If you were convinced God told you to rape, would you rape?

If you were convinced God told you to fly a plane full of people into a building, would you do it?

If you were convinced God told you to set off a nuke, would you do it?

God would not have me do any of those things. Secondly, they have nothing to do with what God asked Abraham to do.

 

[Alla27]

It varies.

Suppose a friend does something that hurts you and asks your forgiveness. If he offers restitution, what would you expect of him before you forgive him? It varies.

But I know one thing you would not do. You would not tell him that, if he wants your forgiveness, he must kill your son. You would not tell him, that after he has killed your son, then you could forgive him.

But somehow we are to believe that God could not forgive us until his son was killed. That makes no sense.

I have a question. Let's say I killed your relative. Let's say I ask judge to forgive me. Let's say judge forgave me. It calls "mercy". Where is justice?
I have another question: if God is merciful but NOT just what kind of God is this?

 

[-57]

The test was whether Abraham has enough FAITH or TRUSTED God enough to make that kind of great sacrifice.
We know from the Bible that God did NOT want Abraham to kill Isaak. That was not what God needed.

God was praising Abraham for being ready to give his son to Him. God was praising Abraham for readiness to do what Abraham hated to do. What is real sacrifice? Real sacrifice is to give something you really don't want to give. It is to do something you really don't want to do. God wanted to test faith of Abraham and to know if Abraham was willing to give Him the most precious cargo. His beloved son.
That kind of test was only for Abraham. God does not give anybody else this test.

I think you summed it up very well in your last sentence
"That kind of test was only for Abraham. God does not give anybody else this test."

 

[Alla27]

It's hard to argue with someone who doesn't undertand biblical forgiveness.

do you?

For example many were forgiven prior to Christ death.

really? who says this?