My Abraham Challenge

[miknik5]

Nobody is allowed to kill anyone. But these sins will and still happen because not all men are covered and redeemed by the blood and there is division amongst the children. Not all are washed and justified and covered and not all have grown up into THE HEAD (who is CHRIST) unto the full knowledge of HIM

When Peter asked the Lord, should we rain fire down from heaven, HE as rebuked and told you do not know of whose SPIRIT you truly are of
Because, if one claims to belong to GOD, he is not allowed to rise above GOD's final judgement and take matters into his own hands by uprooting, avenging,living by the sword

All men, are ultimately left to GOD's final judgement

 

[miknik5]

In the end it will be made manifest those who knew of whose SPIRIT they truly are of from those who simply did lip service to HIS NAME

 

[miknik5]

We are to bring all our works into the light to discern what is wrought in GOD

And what isn't...repent of these works

But don't attribute these works to GOD!

Abraham's call to sacrifice his PROMISED SON was simply a reenactment of GOD's plan from the beginning

If you do not understand that plan, don't in error put evil for good because those who do understand HIS PLAN are testifying that what GOD did was for our good!

 

[miknik5]

Wait, what?

That is my point! You are plagarizing my point!

If a loving God exists, he would not ask us to rape, pillage or murder. Thus a loving God would not ask Abraham to kill his son.


Get with the program, please.

I didn't write that in response to God and Abraham. I wrote that in response to what you said. You said you would murder people if you were confident God was commanding it. Would you also rape people if you were confident God was commanding it? I see you evade the question.

I do not evade that question. If I was confident God was commanding me to do an immoral thing, then I would not do that immoral thing.

A loving GOD put in place HIS forespoken plan by providing HIS creation a visible sign soeaking of THAT forespoken plan

 

[miknik5]

Talking about justice. please read and contemplate Romans 3:25 through Romans 3:26

 

[Alla27]

And what should the judge do? Bring his son into the court, wait for somebody to kill his son, and then announce that now we have both justice and mercy? Is that what should happen in your story?

Of course, not.
So, let's say there is the law - do not kill - and of course there is a punishment (Justice)- death penalty or life in prison. Let's say I broke this law - I killed someone. Let's say that judge forgave me completely - Mercy. Did this judge rob the Justice?
Or, let's say judge sentenced me to 5 years in prison. this is also some kind of mercy. Did this judge still rob Justice(death penalty or life in prison)?
After you answer, we will get to killing the son part.

 

[Alla27]

If God exists, I would hope that he would be both merciful and just, like we try in our country to be both merciful and just.

Good News! God is both - Justice and Mercy. We know that Justice for any sin is death. So, if God punishes me for any sin and don't forgive He will do Justice. But Mercy will be robbed completely. If God forgives me it will be Mercy. But Justice will be robbed.
This is why we need the son part. We need that both Mercy and Justice to be satisfied. Because God is BOTH - Justice and Mercy.

 

[Alla27]

If by "give his son" do you mean "kill"?

No, nobody had to kill Jesus so He could atone for us. But God knew that Jesus will be killed. It will be Jesus's killers choice. God wanted to show Abraham that even that He knew His Son will be killed by evil people He still had to send Him on earth. Because Jesus had to do one important work - to save us from our sins(the atonement).

According to your spin, were the 9/11 terrorists "giving up the plane" to God? No! No! No! They were murdering.

In their evil or confused minds they were doing God's work. But we do not believe them. Did the Holy Ghost ever testified to you personally that what they claim is true? He never testified this to me. So, that is why we don't buy what they claim and we call them evil people.

 

[miknik5]

Unless a grain of wheat die it abides alone

The world will rejoice while you sorrow. But your sorrow will turn to joy

Father if it is your will let this cup pass

Do you not think that I could call my father's angels and they would not come? But then how would scripture be fulfilled that says it must be

HE started telling Peter all that HE would suffer and Pwter said Lord it will not happen

CHRIST rebuked h pretty strong fly and said "tou do not have the work of my father in mind


Are you sure that CHRIST JESUS was not supposed to suffer and then enter into HIS GLORY (the GLORY HE had with THE FATHER before the world ever was)

 

[Alla27]

Are you sure that CHRIST JESUS was not supposed to suffer and then enter into HIS GLORY (the GLORY HE had with THE FATHER before the world ever was)

I am not sure who you are asking this question.
Did someone claim that to atone for sins of humanity is not suffering?

 

[miknik5]

I am not sure who you are asking this question.
Did someone claim that to atone for sins of humanity is not suffering?

No, nobody had to kill Jesus so He could atone for us. But God knew that Jesus will be killed. It will be Jesus's killers choice. God wanted to show Abraham that even that He knew His Son will be killed by evil people He still had to send Him on earth. Because Jesus had to do one important work - to save us from our sins(the atonement).

In their evil or confused minds they were doing God's work. But we do not believe them. Did the Holy Ghost ever testified to you personally that what they claim is true? He never testified this to me. So, that is why we don't buy what they claim and we call them evil people.

Please review your statement bolded above...
In my response, I was simply reminding you of the scriptures that clearly show that it wasn't a mistake...

 

[Alla27]

Please review your statement bolded above...
In my response, I was simply reminding you of the scriptures that clearly show that it wasn't a mistake...

Yes, where do you see here my claim that atonement is not suffering? I said no such thing. I said that nobody had to kill Jesus so He could atone for us. I didn't say that Jesus didn't have to suffer while He was taking our sins upon Himself.

 

[Alla27]

I have a question: what if nobody wanted to kill Jesus, how would He save us?

 

[-57]

Good News! God is both - Justice and Mercy. We know that Justice for any sin is death. So, if God punishes me for any sin and don't forgive He will do Justice. But Mercy will be robbed completely. If God forgives me it will be Mercy. But Justice will be robbed.
This is why we need the son part. We need that both Mercy and Justice to be satisfied. Because God is BOTH - Justice and Mercy.

Justice isn't robbed when we receive mercy. When I was given mercy...Jesus took my Justice when my sins were imputed to Him.

 

[-57]

I have a question: what if nobody wanted to kill Jesus, how would He save us?

There is no other way. The wages of sin is death....Jesus paid the wages..death.

If Christ didn't die..there would be absolutly no hope for salvation.

 

[miknik5]

Yes, where do you see here my claim that atonement is not suffering? I said no such thing. I said that nobody had to kill Jesus so He could atone for us. I didn't say that Jesus didn't have to suffer while He was taking our sins upon Himself.

What? Let's stick to what you initially said before moving onto being made perfect through suffering so that HE might become for us OUR one and only SOURCE of SALVATION...

It was fitting that GOD would make the author of our salvation perfect through suffering, since the children (of flesh) suffer...

How else could HE be an effective HIGH PRIEST before GOD, if HE did not walk and suffer in our humanity even as HE is the LIKENESS and the HOLINESS of GOD made manifest in the flesh?

 

[miknik5]

I have a question: what if nobody wanted to kill Jesus, how would He save us?

The scripture already said that HE would suffer...okay?

That the chastisement fell upon HIM...so that by HIS WOUNDS, we would be healed.

Further, please expound the necessity of having hidden in GOD's WORD, cursed is anyone who hangs from a tree...

 

[Alla27]

There is no other way. The wages of sin is death....Jesus paid the wages..death.
If Christ didn't die..there would be absolutly no hope for salvation.

Is it necessary to be killed by someone in order to die?
I didn't say that Christ didn't have to die at all. I said it was not necessary that someone had to kill Jesus Christ so He could atone for our sins.
Of course, Jesus had to die so He would resurrect. But in order for Him to be resurrected and to save others He had to be without sin.

 

[miknik5]

And by the way, let's not forget that no one took HIS LIFE from HIM...HE had the power to lay it down and to take it up again...

 

[Alla27]

So, my question remains: if nobody wanted to take that sin upon himself and kill innocent man, how would Jesus save us from our sins?