Must Confession be Catholic?

[Tayla]

those issues are more individual church/people issues then catholic issues.

These are practical issues which override the abstract theory.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Priest does not forgive any sins though. It is Jesus that forgives. Thought you would have known that?

Yeaaaaah, that was kind of my point. Thanks for finally agreeing.

 

[Goatee]

I understand Catholicism better than you do. I speak from first hand experience.

Doesn't look that way buddy.

 

[Goatee]

Yeaaaaah, that was kind of my point. Thanks for finally agreeing.

Superb. Nice that you understand that it is indeed through the priest that Jesus forgives. Just like it was the same with His Apostles.

Nice one.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Superb. Nice that you understand that it is indeed through the priest that Jesus forgives. Just like it was the same with His Apostles.

Nice one.

Only through the priest? No, which was my point. Thanks again.

 

[Goatee]

glad u

Only through the priest? No, which was my point. Thanks again.

Glad you agree.

Jesus gave us the Priest to go to for confession. Jesus works through the priest to absolve sins. It's a wonderful sacrament of the Catholic church.

Through Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture.

Jesus sent out His Apostles to forgive sins. Only those that were blessed by Him. Today the catholic church continues as Jesus taught. Priesthood with Traditions handed down since the very first day in the upper room.

God bless u buddy

 

[Phil 1:21]

Glad you agree.

Well, yeah, that was my original point. I'm not sure why you decided to disagree with me about it, but I'm glad you now understand what I was saying. God bless.

 

[iwbswiaihl2]

1 Pet 2:9-10 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy. Peter writing to the saints tell them they are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, and because of this, having been saved by grace through faith we are to proclaim the good news, in word and in practice. When we share the good news and one receives Jesus as their Savior we can then tell them that by faith in Him their sins have been forgiven and now they are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. That is what the scriptures teach. If only special people could have your sins forgiven, suppose you live where there were none of the so called special priests and you died, were you lost of saved? Our sins are forgiven when we come to Jesus for salvation and are then freed from the law of sin and death which is what the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to write in Rom 8:2-4 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. So explain how if one is freed from the law of sin and death in Christ Jesus how they are charged with the curse of the law which is, the soul that sins shall surely die. He set all believers free from the curse of the law, Himself have become a curse for us, Gal 3:10-14 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” 13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree, 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

If you reply do not forget to answer the question I highlighted and underlined above, thanks.

 

[paul becke]

Not you personally. Obviously, the formal sacrament of Reconciliation or Confession exists, depending on the church. I was referring to the fact that private confession as we know it and as you were referring to it was not practiced in the Apostolic church but came along later in time.


It is something of a technicality, but certainly the church admits that a person might come to Christ while a prisoner in North Korea, let's say, and not have any opportunity to receive any of the sacraments. But if he's repentant, would he be lost if he were killed by the authorities? The church would not say that. On the other hand, the church does require members to go to sacramental confession on a certain schedule.

In the Catholic church, I believe the minimum requirement is once a year, preferably during Easter (surely, including Lent).

As goatee seemed to imply above, there is often a palpably mystical dimension that one can experience after making a confession - It would seem to be well described by the expression, 'the peace that passeth understanding.'

I used to feel a bit embarrassed by confessing to the same just two or three besetting sins, which seem more serious than the rest, mostly thoughts of hatred and impure/lustful thoughts. (I'm not talking now about demonic attacks caused by way of OCD, for which the sufferer is not responsible, although, since normally, our sins derive from our fallen condition, they would all ultimately derive from demonic assaults of one kind or another). Then I saw an article in a Catholic online journal, in which the author related that he'd felt the same, and apologised to his confessor. He, however, asked him, 'Why ? Do you want to confess to new sins every week ?' Good point !

Anyway, I'm not always sure how promptly or slowly I put away thoughts of hatred or lust, so I tend to mention that. Sometimes, I realise I was slow. Such venial sins, however, as prompt an immediate response of regret can be made the subject of Acts of Contrition,* at least as a temporary measure. Although, if I tried to keep track of all the lesser venials sins, I'd probably never have time to do anything else.

* An example of an Act of Contrition

O my God, I am sorry for having sinned against you, because I have offended your infinite goodness ; and with the help of your Grace, I resolve never to sin again.

Note that phrase , 'and with the help of your grace.' Clearly, the Church , in its wisdom, has realised that virtue is not only a duty incumbent on the Christian, but is also every bit as much a privilege !

Incidentally, note how David, no matter how anguished his complaints or urgent his petitions to God, concerning his enemies, and no matter how bellicosely he wishes to see them brought to nought, thrown down in the dust and punished, always acknowledges to God his own need of His mercy for his many sins - in the same Psalm.

 

[Goatee]

Well, yeah, that was my original point. I'm not sure why you decided to disagree with me about it, but I'm glad you now understand what I was saying. God bless.

It's good to know that u too agree that Catholic confession comes straight from Jesus. A long line in history. Right from the Apostles.

 

[Albion]

In the Catholic church, I believe the minimum requirement is once a year, preferably during Easter (surely, including Lent).

Yes.

As goatee seemed to imply above, there is often a palpably mystical dimension that one can experience after making a confession - It would seem to be well described by the expression, 'the peace that passeth understanding.'

I wouldn't deny that, but some people feel the same way after reciting the general confession (in those churches which do it that way). Many feel like that after going to Communion, or after receiving a laying on of hands, or a number of other acts that are considered to be high points in the life of the believer/churchgoer.

 

[Phil 1:21]

It's good to know that u too agree that Catholic confession comes straight from Jesus. A long line in history. Right from the Apostles.

If believing that makes you happy, then God bless.

 

[Tree of Life]

Your first assumption is untrue, therefor, your argument falls apart.

I wasn't aware that I was making an argument, but perhaps I was implicitly. What do you think my argument was?

Penance is a TEMPORAL rather than eternal punishment. It gives you a, "get out of jail for 90 days," card which you can use to get out of the EARTHLY punishment for your sins. As I mentioned on a different thread, the penances (earthly punishments) were severe in the years after Rome fell. Now, I agree with Luther that selling them was wrong. You have to earn them, and not buy them. And the whole idea of getting people out of Purgatory (not hell, once you land there, you're in for good) was seen as a way of making money for the Vatican, and I disagree with that, as well.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by "temporal punishment"? In what way does penance deliver a person from earthly punishments for sins?

As I also mentioned in an earlier post, the priest is standing in front of you as a witness. As you are also standing in front of an Icon of Jesus, He is there, as well (beside the point of "Where two or three...) When you confess to the priest, he is there to listen, to counsel, to console, and to teach. You confess your sins. God hears, when the priest pronounces your forgiveness, God supplies the grace, not the priest. (this of course is how EASTERN CATHOLICS do it.)

In the Roman right, the confessor sits (nowadays) in front of the penitent. The idea that God is there is the same, (where two or three...) When you confess, God gives you the grace to do it right. And when the priest blesses you, and pronounces your forgiveness, God supplies the grace, and not the priest.

That's what I said.

 

[paul becke]

Yes.


I wouldn't deny that, but some people feel the same way after reciting the general confession (in those churches which do it that way). Many feel like that after going to Communion, or after receiving a laying on of hands, or a number of other acts that are considered to be high points in the life of the believer/churchgoer.

I'm sure you are right, Albion. Though only Confession and Holy Communion can be experienced repeatedly and regularly. The sacraments are supernatural, indeed, directly divine miracles. And anyway, I believe such experiences are far, far more common than the church even knows; perhaps, understandably, since the culture would make them fearful of seeming to boast.

I was very surprised to read that Pope Benedict said that he had never had a mystical experience, because the impression he made on everyone when he visited the UK seemed miraculous. It certainly did for me, and I wasn't expecting to be so absolutely enchanted. Believe it or not, the colours on our telly, which normally seemed to have been borrowed from an oil-slick, showed in the most beautiful pastel hues, throughout the broadcasting of his visit ! And he just radiated peace. So, I can only assume, with regard to his claim to have never had any kind of mystical experience, that he was like a fish wondering what water would be like.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Could you elaborate on what you mean by "temporal punishment"? In what way does penance deliver a person from earthly punishments for sins?

If you rob a bank and get caught, and convicted, you go to jail. Sorry, but that is an easy one. But in the times Luther was complaining about, you would be forced to wear sack cloth and ashes for six months for unintentionally shorting your neighbor on a sack of flour, or other such things. Time in the stocks would be for more serious matters, such as eavesdropping, gossiping, etc.

 

[Tree of Life]

If you rob a bank and get caught, and convicted, you go to jail. Sorry, but that is an easy one. But in the times Luther was complaining about, you would be forced to wear sack cloth and ashes for six months for unintentionally shorting your neighbor on a sack of flour, or other such things. Time in the stocks would be for more serious matters, such as eavesdropping, gossiping, etc.

So are you saying that temporal punishment is legal punishment that we are liable to for committing crimes? Is penance meant to replace the need to deal with criminal activity through the legal system?

 

[Monk Brendan]

So are you saying that temporal punishment is legal punishment that we are liable to for committing crimes? Is penance meant to replace the need to deal with criminal activity through the legal system?

In those times yes. TEMPORAL means "in time." It is why we call our time here on earth temporary! However, you are a Presbyterian, aren't you? I think that means you're a Calvinist, correct? I've been told time and again that Calvinists don't believe in all that Romish, Papist stuff. Or am I wrong?

 

[Tree of Life]

In those times yes. TEMPORAL means "in time." It is why we call our time here on earth temporary! However, you are a Presbyterian, aren't you? I think that means you're a Calvinist, correct? I've been told time and again that Calvinists don't believe in all that Romish, Papist stuff. Or am I wrong?

Calvinists reject what we see as the superstition and excesses of papacy. But there's much good in Catholicism that can be embraced.

So in what way does penance save us from temporary consequences of sin?

 

[Albion]

If the penance you are referring to is what the priest assigns as he's granting you absolution, it doesn't remit anything. Your contrition and confession and resolve to amend your life is what counts. The "penance," if we mean by that the "saying of ten Hail Marys and three Our Fathers," for example, is just a gesture on the part of the person who has received the sacrament.

 

[Root of Jesse]

As a Reformed believer I've always admired the Catholic practice of confession. I think that it ends up having some theological pitfalls and my Catholic brothers are welcome to correct me if I'm misunderstanding them. But to me, the pitfalls are:

1. A notion of penance which appears to be a form of re-payment for our sins.
2. The insistence that an ordained priest must hear confession in order for a person to receive forgiveness (extenuating circumstances aside).

Reformed types, and by extension most Protestants, have rejected these theological pitfalls, but why have we rejected the practice of confession altogether? The idea of fixed hours wherein parishioners may come to the pastor or elders of the church in order to confess their sins seems to me to be a wonderful help against the corruptions of the flesh. Yet this is not advertised, encouraged, or even practiced among reformed believers and protestants alike.

Why not? Wouldn't we benefit from it?

Repayment? no. Atonement, more like. If a kid bats a ball through a window, you can never unbreak the window. You can make reparition, though. It's an attempt to make right what is wrong. Jesus told us "“If your brother* sins [against you], go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church." I know this sounds backward, but in the first instance, you're allowing the one who sinned against you to repent. That's confession. In modern day, it's voluntary.

By the way, you don't have to only go during set hours. You can tap the priest on the shoulder almost any time, or make an appointment.