Cool! Where are you living?
It also does not happen when people are not encouraged to assimilate. Telling everyone "hey, you just set up your own ethnic enclaves, don't worry about assimilating, we're multiculti!" doesn't work as well as you might think.
Why would someone move to a COMPLETELY different country to better their situation and not make ANY efforts to assimilate? Nobody is dictating anything of the sort. I am saying it naturally happens. And multiculturalism is working fantastically in Canada; except for the people who hate immigrants anyways. And frankly...forget about them.
Often that benefit is purely material. I'm not inclined to let the rest of the world into my country and bend over backwards to accommodate them -- because God forbid they ever feel even a little bit out of place in a foreign land. Especially when they have no interest in becoming part of the country, but are only there because their own country sucks.
What does "bend over backwards" entail, I wonder. Also, even if their own country sucks, they still chose your country ON PURPOSE. You keep repeating these assumptions that immigrants have "no interest" in becoming functioning members of their new society and frankly, I think that presumption is very misguided. I say this based on the experience of pretty much every immigrant I've met. My parents were immigrants; my community was almost all immigrants within the last 2 generations; I've worked with refugees and asylum seekers and I continue to enjoy the presence of many immigrants in my church.
Tough. The answer then is to go back to your own house if you feel like you're not as welcomed as you think you should be, and you just can't deal with that. It's not to bring over your own family and friends and set everyone up in the guest room, hoping the homeowner is too busy or nice to kick you all out .
Who benefits from the attitude you display here?
It sort of depends. When their numbers relative to the native population are like it is where I am? Yeah, it's just about impossible. When the numbers get larger, and they begin to congregate in the same areas, the "locals" more and more become other immigrants like you. This only becomes further exacerbated when you do something like was originally proposed in the OP's new story (i.e. set up your own Muslim-only gated community and forbid "the locals").
First off, I take umbrage that you seperate the idea that "muslims" are working against "the locals" in reference to the OP. As though there are no local muslims?
I can agree that it becomes easier and more likely you would have more friends that belong to your minority group, but again, you haven't providing anything convincing that suggests these people would no longer, go out, partake in movies, immerse themselves in the popular culture, get jobs working with various other groups. There is a reason that many muslims in North America are relatively liberal compared to muslims in, say, the middle east. The new generations of muslims have been immersing themselves in American culture. This is not a "freak" outcome.
I found this article. I could only skim it but my oh my does it ever provide a COMPLETELY FASCINATING insight into Muslims in Europe and America; comparing the two. I had never really heard about the beginnings. A couple nuggets that jumped out:
Europe, this process was different, with large numbers of immigrants coming to work as manual labor. World War II, in which 70 million to 80 million people were killed, devastated Europe’s economy and manpower was needed in factories. Agreements were signed with Muslim nations, commonly former colonies, to provide such manpower. So Algerians went to France, Moroccans to Spain, and Pakistanis to the U.K. Exceptions included Germany, which had no Muslim colonies and drew on its historical relationship with Turkey in recruiting large numbers of Turks as “guest workers.”...In Europe, Muslims are predominately working class. They originally came mainly from Muslim agricultural societies...In the U.S., Muslim immigrants tended to be part of the professional class, with many doctors, lawyers and engineers.
Really interesting article this:
The Best Place in the World to be a Muslim: America or Europe? - The Islamic Monthly
But, back to the discussion:
Integration of Muslims is Europe’s best kept secret - Europe’s World
This depends on those previous immigrants having also more or less totally assimilated a few generations on. If they haven't, what do you expect to happen?
So if your culture is cold and unwelcoming to outsiders, what do YOU expect to happen? If someone is treated like garbage
Well, like I said, I'm doing it right now. Not long-term yet, but I am a "below .5% of the population" minority here.
What are your general thoughts on it? Personally, I kinda loved it. I did NOT like the lack of ALL cultures (most far east countries have very few immigrants) but I did like being a minority. It allowed me a chance to see what outsiders may feel like in Canada.
What? Do Chinatowns not exist? Do Muslim-dominated neighborhoods that more closely resemble Muslim countries than their host country not exist? Are there not entire towns in California that look more like they should be south of the border? This isn't "fear based talk", this is just something that happens when you put large numbers of a foreign people in the same place and encourage them to create their own little communities.
If you go back through the conversation, you'd see I was addressing the idea that these groups would "get a foothold" and "take over". I can't and would NOT deny those places exist.
What examples of this are you thinking of, exactly?
USA (slaves helped out a lot right?); Postwar Europe...almost all of it (and before that); Australia
Learn the language, adopt local customs to at least some extent, try to become part of the wider community rather than holing up in your own gated ethnic enclave, etc. I don't actually think it's possible for first-generation immigrants anywhere to ever fully assimilate, but they still have a duty to do so to whatever extent they can.
I agree with learning the language. Not because they "should to integrate" but they should so that they can be independent. Luckily, almost all immigrants want to do that. It is certainly easier for men (who tend to be out in the community working) than for women (from cultures where they are meant to stay at home and not work).
Out of curiosity, when I read your list, it sounds like you expect them to ADD things to their "cultural repetoire"; is it safe to say they don't need to take anything away (that isn't against the law of their new homeland, of course).
If you met my father and mother, I think you would disagree that it's impossible for 1st geners to assimilate. What helps? They are as white and dress exactly like everyone else.
Drop everything? Not really possible. But you would be expected to adapt to the customs and cultural norms of your new country as much as possible.[/QUOTE]But sooooo many of these are personal, private and barely affect anyone else because so many of them happen within the family or within the family home.
EDIT: Sidebar: Doesn' all the "assimilate" talk sound and feel a bit too "borg" like?
