I didn't assume. I just asked, because you responded to a quote from me with a couple of posts which had nothing to do with the quote.
Trust me, I pass on plenty of chances to bash Islam.
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Black Muslims in American & Americanism: Has American Religion been in competition with Islam?
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I didn't assume. I just asked, because you responded to a quote from me with a couple of posts which had nothing to do with the quote.
Trust me, I pass on plenty of chances to bash Islam.
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Actually....
I am saddened to see the resistance to addressing what the OP has always said....As it seems you again chose to do falsehood, since it was already noted that you both ignored what was in the FIRST posting - and it is not really that difficult to address. The FIRST posting in this thread started out with "There was a fascinating review." In order to claim anything was started out After you made a comment, you would have had to be the first one to make the OP.
You didn't - so please do not even try acting such. Moreover, the OP ALWAYS said the thread's focus was directly on discussing the positives of Muslims within the history of America - from Muhammad Ali to Black slaves and many others. You avoided those outright AND you avoided the initial article discussing what the FOUNDING Fathers said on Muslims since that was the focus.
The argument you attempted fails since it avoids 2 things:
- Claiming "He edited the topic AFTER I commented" fails to show where an edit happened on the topic itself and it was IMMEDIATELY stated in the second posting what the focus was...seen in Jun 16, 2016#3. ...when I noted the contributions of Islam to the U.S via Black Muslims for centuries. You argued against it despite not being the author of the OP/knowing the thread intent......and when the OP was brought up/cited point for point, you skipped.
- Claiming "He edited the topic AFTER I commented" is an attempt to STILL avoid the topic itself of the thread when the thread has been clear on the discussion and you already claimed your bias in saying Anything positive about Muslims is simply "propaganda" - as expressed when you later stated "If you only wanted to hear positive propaganda you should have said that" .(http://www.christianforums.com/thre...competition-with-islam.7952001/#post-69755292 )...meaning you ONLY wanted to discuss the negatives and claim that's all Muslims are (hasty generalization). So it is a moot point discussing you wanted history. It was never a thread focusing on the tendency you have on only wanting to discuss why you disliked Islam - it was focusing on things others have done in the Muslim world which we can appreciate and you chose to come into a thread dedicated to that to be intentionally against pertinent discussion.
Claiming the CENTER point of the thread of focusing on positives was somehow added in is a red herring since the focus was already clear in the main article referenced from the beginning. Falsely claiming something was added in is false since you failed to even deal with what was said directly multiple times before you even posted. Respectfully, If you're going to do a falsehood, again, there are better ways to go about it. Especially when it was so easily able to be called out due to the avoidance of what was said plainly.
The first posting has always sai the following:
The FIRST article in the thread for discussion was Donald Trump vs. the Founding Fathers on Muslims Coming ... - Truthdig. Despite the protests/rants you gave on the thread, you never even touched that in a thread focused on the positives of Muslims ....you never addressed it when it came to what the Founding Fathers said on Islam and Muslims....or what the history was for Black Muslims in the U.S.. Moreover, as the thread was discussing the history of Muslims in the U.S in regards to slavery, you ignored plainly the context of that post from the start since it was stated directly what the topic was about - as said right after the main article:
And of course, as noted before directly, the main purpose of the thread was said from the jump in the same FIRST post as stated here:
It was said directly: "I do hope that anyone choosing to enter into this thread would be willing to do so in order to deal with the subject of showing how not all stereotypes about Muslims are true. The goal of the thread is simple discussion on how Muslims simply impact all of us in everyday life in positive ways we're rarely aware of it....and have noted how often the things said about them are not consistent with Muslim communities in how they live life - and for the many amazing and beautiful Muslims around the world and in our nation, it is a privilege to honor them for their sacrifices and all they do.....'"
Claiming otherwise on your part showed a commitment to wrangling since it was blatantly against what was stated IN the OP on discussing positives.
Posting a negative comment saying all Muslims can be summed up by 9/11 is NOT dealing with the history of Muslims in the U.S. - and thus, your comment was hardly pertinent. It was and is STILL no different than someone saying you as an Orthodox Christian are defined by the Bosnian Genocide because Orthodox Christians participated in massive killing of Muslims and that is therefore the history of the entire camp. The Bosnian genocide consisted of three specific groups: Bosnian Serbs (Orthodox Catholic Christians), Bosniaks (Sunni Muslims), and Bosnian Croats (Roman Catholic Christians), (Genocide-Bosnia) - and following communist leader, Josip Tito, a new leader by the name of Slobodan Milosevic, a Serbian, rose up in the 1980's and had a vision was for the Serbians who were Orthodox Catholic Christians to be the dominant religion in every area or country they made up....leading to the genocide of THOUSANDS OF Muslims.
Again,
For historical demonstration, we also have one of the most brutal acts of Christian terrorism that is often overlooked. ...That is the Bosnian Genocide, which refers to the attempted annihilation of Muslims by Christian Serbs in former Yugoslavia from about 1992-1995. Bosnian Serbs killed more than 8,000 Muslim men and boys, as well as the ethnic cleansing of another 25,000–30,000 refugees, in and around the town of Srebrenica in Bosnia and Herzegovina in what is now referred to as the Srebrenica massacre (http://endgenocide.org/learn/past-genocides/the-bosnian-war-and-srebrenica-genocide/ ). It is highly unfortunate to witness how when Bosnia attempted to secede, Serbia – under Slobodan Miloševic’s leadership – invaded with the claim that it was there to “free” fellow Serbian Orthodox Christians living in Bosnia.
--"Genocide in Bosnia - Holocaust Museum Houston" ( https://www.hmh.org/la_Genocide_Bosnia.shtml )
-"Bosnian Genocide « World Without Genocide - Working to Create a WORLD Without Genocide" ( http://worldwithoutgenocide.org/genocides-and-conflicts/bosnian-genocide )
The Srebrenica massacre is the largest mass murder in Europe since World War
Then we also have the extensive amount of Anti-abortion groups who are known to kill as well. As an example, in November 2015, Robert Lewis Dear killed three and injured nine at the Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Colorado (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/20...parenthood-shooter-was-a-christian-terrorist/ ) - "The history of anti-abortion terrorism in the United States" ( http://www.dailydot.com/politics/history-anti-abortion-terrorism-violence-united-states/ )
If that isn't enough, I'll raise you one: We can also deal with the Dutch Reformed in South Africa when seeing the ways that they treated those who were Indigenous to the land and call them Cannanites. We already see where the Dutch Calvinists - especially in places like South Africa - were EXTREMELY uncomfortable with racial diversity (due to the Eurocentric focus) and we know what came of that when seeing the history of treatment with blacks in South Africa.since the Dutch - like the Puritans - have seen South Africa as a promised land, a New Jerusalem...
-"APARTHEID IN SOUTH AFRICA: CALVIN'S LEGACY?" ( https://www.ucumberlands.edu/downloads/academics/history/vol3/BlakeWilliams91.htm )
--"CALVINISM AND APARTHEID: THE DEVELOPMENT OF AFRIKANER NATIONALISM" ( https://pseudointellectualchat.word...eid-the-development-of-afrikaner-nationalism/ )
And for others in the U.S, we can see people such as the Branch Davidians (as with Koresh ) and others like the KKK which were condoned in the U.S for an extensive amount of time, in addition to other groups that were openly promoting segregation and enforcing that through violence (from lynching to mob beatings - be it on black people or whites supporting them - and many other things).
In addition to this, we can also examine the history of groups who claimed to represent Christ such as Mormons.....groups which have been noted to be semi-Christian even though there is an extensive history of violence in the camp. One hundred fifty years ago, the U.S. Army marched into Utah prepared to battle Brigham Young and his Mormon militia which did damage to countless people after harming others:
-"The Brink of War | History | Smithsonian" ( The Brink of War | History | Smithsonian ) (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-brink-of-war-48447228/?no-ist )
-"Utah War 1857-1858: Mormon Militarism & the War for Deseret " ( The Warfare Historian: Utah War 1857-1858: Mormon Militarism & the War for Deseret )
(http://warfarehistorian.blogspot.com/2012/07/conflicts-you-should-know-utah-war-1857.html )
-Mormon war on Native Americans (Black Hawk War between Natives and Mormons) - YouTube (
A lot of that is simply a reflection of Manifest Destiny - connected with American Exceptionalism ideals that often justified eradication of minority groups in the name of God condoning it. . This is similar to what happened with the Puritans when they came over (at least in certain camps) when they initially came over and later felt it was God's calling for them to treat Native Americans and Blacks in negative ways because of God backing it (even though other Puritans felt otherwise ) - more shared in Utopian Promise as well as Perry Miller's "Errand into the Wilderness
And those were not even the full instances of history where people claiming Christ led the way with doing harm. The same can be said of American history with Jim Crow in the South and many other points. That does not define all Christians thankfully - but to insist that it does would be disrespectful. Lynchings, bombings of Black churches, beatings/mob violence - these have happened since the Founding Fathers to African Americans by people claiming Jesus.....but again, that doesn't define all of them.
And if someone said "Lets discuss the positive history of Christians in America" in a thread dedicated to that, it would be taken disrepsectfully for you to come in and say "I remember the slave days!!" and say that defined them all. It would show you don't really care to discuss HISTORY.
We can go down the list starting with the group you refuse to deal with as it concerns the KKK and its history claiming Christ and yet doing acts of violence (http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-cia-the-kkk-and-the-usa/21463 ) ....
-"The Ku Klux Klan: America's Forgotten Terrorists - University of Houston-Victoria" ( http://www.uhv.edu/asa/articles/kkkamericasforgottenterrorists.pdf )
KKK claims to be Christian (http://www.christianpost.com/news/k...n-claims-the-klan-is-not-a-hate-group-116614/ )
--"KU KLUX KLAN: History Channel" ( http://www.history.com/topics/ku-klux-klan )
--"American Experience ..PBS: : Top 5 Questions About the KKK" ( http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/general-article/klansville-faq/ )
-" The Protestant Churches and Lynching, 1919-1939, The Journal of Negro History, pp. 118-131)" ( http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/cms_content?page=268919&event=EBRN )
The KKK have had a long history in the South and we'd be foolish to ignore that. And to be clear, many of the white supremacist groups in the US are united under the banner of “Christian Unity,” while the Ku Klux Klan website claims that its “better way” is “the Christian way.” ( http://www.kkk.com/). According to David Schanzer and Charles Kurzman’s recent article in the New York Times, a study produced by the US Military Academy’s “Combating Terrorism Center” at West Point counted an average of 6 terrorism-related plots per year carried out by Muslims since 9/11....which resulted in a total of 50 fatalities. However, the same study found that right-wing extremists averaged 337 attacks per year, causing a total of 254 fatalities (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/opinion/the-other-terror-threat.html )...
The KKK was 'Christian' only in the sense that they claimed Christ even though everything else they did was on the basis of abusing scripture - no different than many of the Reformers and many others (http://41.media.tumblr.com/4fa7af7a0e4d0ddce1c7df9a319cd788/tumblr_nic3f5nKlX1s7e5k5o1_500.jpg ) / ( ). Klansmen were Protestants, but they could not be described exclusively or even predominantly as fundamentalists. In reality, their religious affiliations mirrored the whole of white Protestant society, including those who did not belong to any church, according to the book The Rise of the Ku Klux Klan. So, anyone who was not a Protestant was not welcomed. And this history is not forgotten by Black Christians in the U.S when it comes to seeing the KKK today or their history......and why others don't have a problem with them and yet try to separate their imagery from what they did in the name of Christ.
-"Book Review: The Cross and the Lynching Tree by James H. Cone" ( http://thejesusquestion.org/2014/04/14/book-review-the-cross-and-the-lynching-tree-by-james-h-cone/ )
\
The same could be said of Andrew Jackson, who sanctioned the extermination of Native Americans - others being shocked at the acts of ISIS - and yet seeming to say that nothing occurring in U.S history was ever on the same level when it comes to people we have made patriots of. Being Afro-Hispanic myself, to see times in history where the U.S has literally burned others on crosses (or lynched) in the name of Christ (as occurred often during Jim Crow and the KKK - with a basic example among many thousands of others being the charred corpse of Will Brown, Omaha, NE, after being killed, mutilated and burned by a white mob )or the many acts of dehumanization done to people in other nations at the approval of America when it comes to U.S Imperialism IN THE NAME of our "Christian Nation", we choose to minimize it in the name of "We didn't know better" but then try to excuse our inconsistency with others in the name of saying "They believed that and so do the rest - all others not violent like them are not true Muslims!!!"
Outside of the KKK doing the same as certain Muslims did in violent cases, We can also deal with several other groups besides that claiming Christ (http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-po...ristian-terrorist-groups-you-never-hear-about ). The LRA is a good start.
For reference:
--" The Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA) is a Christian Fundamentalist terrorist group originally from Uganda, but now active in the Sudan, the Central African Republic, and other places. Uganda, you may remember, is a hotbed of Christian Fundamentalism, so it makes sense that a group who calls themselves “Christianist” would come from the country. The LRA surfaced in the popular conscious sometime ago when Joesph Kony suddenly became a meme on the internet; up to that point, their main claim to fame is child sex slaves and children soldiers. Indeed, the LRA is known to orchestrate kidnappings, railroading young boys into fighting while forcing young girls into sexual slavery. Those who refused to fight were hacked to pieces. The young girls are forced to be “brides” for the soldiers, and thus helping to spread HIV. They’re especially brutal towards civilians, as well, wiping out entire villages and attacking refugee camps."The goal of the LRA is pretty straight froward: they want a Bible-based state that uses the Ten Commandments as guide posts." ( )
-"Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) - GlobalSecurity.org" ( http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/lra.htm )
-"The Lord's Resistance Army: The US Response - Federation of American Scientists" (https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R42094.pdf )
If one wishes to keep up with the LRA today, one can go to "LRA Crisis Watch" (https://lracrisistracker.com/ ) to keep track of their activities....within the last month alone abductions and killings have occurred sadly. The documentary Invisible Children (
There's also the violence of the Christian groups like Anti-balaka against Muslims, which rose to a crescendo in the Central African Republic in February 2014, when the country’s first Muslim leader, Michel Djotodia, was forced to step down after taking power in a coup:
-"Tens of thousands of Muslims flee Christian militias in Central African Republic" ( https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...1adbb2-9032-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html )
-""France and the Militarization of Central Africa: Thousands of Muslims Fleeing the Central African Republic"" ( http://www.globalresearch.ca/france...-fleeing-the-central-african-republic/5369276 )
-"Christian threats force Muslim convoy to turn back in CAR exodus" ( http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/14/muslim-convoy-central-african-republic-exodus )
Historically, some members have forcibly converted Muslims to Christianity:
-" "‘A Question of Humanity’: Witness to the Turning Point In Central African Republic"" ( http://time.com/42131/anti-balaka-central-african-republic/ ). We already see where in 2014, Amnesty International reported several massacres committed by anti-balaka against Muslim civilians, forcing thousands of Muslims to flee the country.
Besides that, We can also start here as it concerns the U.S and the Cartels. People forget that a drug cartel inspired by Christianity, which calls itself the Knights Templar, is the newest cartel in the Mexico drug war (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Amer...el-beware-Mexico-strikes-deal-with-vigilantes ) - from last year alone.
At the end of the day, none of those things would be a discussion of the POSITIVES of Christians - and if there was a thread stating plainly "We're here to focus on the POSITIVES of Christians", bringing that up would be OFF topic for the thread.
That is the bottom line with what your comment on 9/11 was really about since it avoided the history of positives of Muslims. Whether you want to deal with the topic doesn't change what it was. Again, your comment was disrespectful and intentionally avoiding the topic.
And as the author of the OP, I know what the topic was about/stated such - both in the TITLE and the CONTENT when clarifying on it. You avoided it each time and that's not surprising when you came in avoiding dealing with the history of Muslims in the U.S since the Founding Fathers.
Unfortunately, you made random comments about rappers doing terrorism universally and several other off-topic points do not change where the topic of discussion was clear and it seemed evident you were trying to derail a thread - in addition to showing a lack of awareness on racial issues since the focus was on Blacks in the history of America who were Muslim.
The show ROOTS with Levar Burton - for anyone taking seriously the history of Slavery in America and its impacts on Blacks - understands this when it comes to the many Muslims who were beaten/mistreated as African Americans.
When there is a topic on the issue and someone chooses to be involved who does NOT care about slavery in America done to Blacks (or has a serious lack of understanding/interaction with Black culture) I expect avoidance of the topic to occur. Sadly, in your cases, this is more than evident.
IMHO, The bottom line is that since there is evidently some racial issues on your part that you are unable to deal with in the thread, it was chosen to derail it. Both derailing and showing disrespect for African-Americans and Blacks in slavery are unacceptable - and as said before, any further derailing/off-topic comments are simply reported since it was requested respectfully to either deal with the topic as written or be respectful in not commenting off topic.
Disrespecting racial issues is not acceptable, especially when it disrespects a lot of Americans in this nation whose ancestors were a part of the nation's founding and were Muslim. It does dishonor to the Muslims who helped Black and Hispanic Christians in the U.S. fight for freedom during the Civil Rights era - and who helped out communities during the era of Jim Crow and earlier. It also ignores the many Muslims/Christians together who were Black in the 70s/many periods before (including those who were VETERANS in the U.S. Army) condemning violence wherever it was found - be it in places with Radial Islam (apostate in Islam) overseas or the ways that the U.S. has participated in GLOBAL terrorism via gun running, proxy wars, toppling of governments, CIA, USING Child soldiers and many other things in the name of God repeatedly.
Because you don't even deal with Muslims in the Founding Father's era or Black slaves who were Muslims and helped others find freedom, it is rather evident you were never concerned with even dealing with any real notice of Islam's involvement in American history. And this thread was focused squarely on the positives Muslims have been to America.
Speaking past that intentionally (after the topic has been clarified several times) is derailing - so as said before, please be respectful.
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I am glad I was not the only one who noticed after it was said originally in the OP what the topic was on (before comments) and what kept being reiterated for clarification/direction right back to what the OP said. It was more than clear - and that's why if any further comments occur which involve the bashing of African Americans who are Muslim or grew up in Muslim sects (as my grandmother did) I am simply going to ignore it. If they continue in disrespect, that's simply a matter of reporting (though I hope it doesn't come to that) since it can come off as racial hostility on a very significant level for those who have African Americans in their family that are Muslim, have been here since the Founding Fathers and have been present/a part of the American story as citizens for sometime.
Much of this goes right back to the assumption that groups are monolithic rather than remembering how diverse camps are (as discussed before).
And for Muslims who are Black in the U.S., the history is VERY diverse.
If someone is not going to claim all people who are White are automatically with the KKK because of what was done by whites supporting that kind of mess, then it is respectful to not demean all African American Muslims as somehow supporting the tragedy of 9/11 when they are talking about the experiences of their ancestors in the U.S. It is simply not going to be tolerated and it really doesn't reflect well on the heart of God or the Church.
As I said earlier, if discussing the history of Muslims in the U.S., one can show true desire to discuss the positives by discussing what occurred with Black Muslims in the U.S. There's history in the 20th century with Muslim veterans who served our nation/laid their lives on the line for this nation - and we dishonor them by forgetting their sacrifices. One of the best books on the issue can be found in The Black Muslims in America - Page 106
- Let's remember the many Muslim-American military members who've ...been fighting terrorism too
Muslim Americans at The National Cemetery
And going further back, under George Washington, several Muslim Americans served in the Continental Army during the Revolutionary War...Bampett Muhammad, for example, who fought for the “Virginia Line” between 1775 and 1783.
Ayyub ibn Sulayman, Yarrow Mamout, and Omar Ibn Said
The historical record is clear that the Muslim population of West Africa had been growing since the 10th century. Some of them were enslaved and brought to the Americas during the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade from the 16th to 19th centuries. While Muslims did not comprise a majority of the enslaved Africans, they were a significant minority, estimated at between twenty and thirty percent with large concentrations of Muslims in places like South Carolina, the Georgia Sea Islands, and Louisiana. Anthropologists still study latent Islamic influence in these communities.
Epic sagas such as Roots will always bring that point home - both the NEW ONE and the old one....as many are not aware of how Alex Haley made Kunte Kinte Muslim since he was a Mandinka warrior.
Others aware of the African Diaspora take this fact seriously......
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You didn't seriously expect me to read that, did you? I started to until I realized it was an essay-length diatribe of intolerance complete with multimedia presentation. You wouldn't sit down for conversation over coffee in real life and lecture someone by talking for 10 minutes straight would you? It would be incredibly rude in real life and it's rude here. If you want to write essays on here you can do that all you want, but I'm not obliged to read them.
Bottom line: I disagreed with you. I disagree with you. I don't know how old you are but at some point in life it would be mentally healthy for you to accept that people will disagree with you. People can disagree with each other and not demonize each other. People can even be friends and disagree, even about important things.
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Who said I was writing it for you? I don't expect things from people that are beyond their level of wisdom. I didn't care if you read it, as it was for the others who've since complained at the rudeness in avoiding the topic, derailing and noting the inconsistency on your part in public and private. Documentation on where you consistently avoided facts. It was also noted since at every point the situation for Blacks who were enslaved/Muslim in the U.S and yet did great things, you revealed you had no desire to deal with that.
That tends to happen often from people who do not either care for Black culture in general/what has happened to it - or who do not know and WANT to stay ignorant on what it is like. For the record, what was stated was for the their sake since it is not that difficult showing where you are already no different than the claims you made against Muslims (And tend to do in discussion).
As you already have avoided anything pertaining to dealing with Muslims in nuanced settings or history and have shown yourself to be antagonistic toward African Americans within the Muslim community, from slavery or before, of course it was not expected for you to read it - you do not care to deal with history.
No one cares about whether you are unable to deal with things based on you ALREADY being disposed to avoid anything against your leanings - and therefore having to justify it because you're unable to deal with where you offered a diatribe/ad hominem in place of a real argument.
As it is, others have written far more besides that and focusing on length is not the same as addressing the CONTENT. You avoided it - and I noted it again as it was said in the FIRST post:
And as it concerns Blacks in the U.S, IT is beyond evident there are clear racial issues on your part that are a big enough problem. So the rants and multiple other violations on our part are needless. Speaking on intolerance is pointless when you already demonstrated that by the first comment - in a thread dedicated to speaking on the contributions of Black Muslims in the history of the U.S and Muslims since the FOUNDING Fathers.
Your insistence to come into a thread on that topic and avoid it for the sake of offering as many quips/attempts at jabs (as if they would be taken seriously as a real demonstration of knowledge on Muslim history in the U.S) are moot - and it is incredulous speaking on intolerance when you already showed that by claiming all Muslims in the history of the U.S. are terrorists. It was ignorant of history - but it is not surprising.
Obviously, it'll never be respectful.
And like I said, again, IMHO it seems rather obvious you have some racial issues since you've avoided dealing with the topic on Muslims in the U.S (Black Muslims), it is evident you are derailing and all other comments off topic will be reported. It was and will always be rude going into a thread avoiding the topic. It will be rude and ALWAYS disrespectful claiming all people in an ethnic group are terrorists, especially those who are African American. Period. So please save the wrangling for another thread before commenting next time.
Proverbs 14:6 - anyone seeking to mock will always find a reason to avoid giving an informed response. And in REAL life, most of these things stated (which you reacted to) are said in less than 3-4 minutes....and others who have intelligent conversation go back/forth after addressing the issue FOR 30 minutes or more. Having had this conversation on the topic a number of times with others involved in the Civil Rights era, they come from a time when people actually knew how to listen/pay attention...and they're in their 60s/70s.
That said, no one would sit down with anyone ranting on about all in a group being terrorists or take seriously someone who jumps into a discussion on Muslims who were Black slaves/their contributions to building the U.S. and then claim "Well they are all about violence like 9/11!!"....I have actually see those conversations play out and people were checked who did so, even witnessing other Christians put in check by fellow Christians who chose to do ignorance in stereotyping all Muslims....or disrespecting African Americans who were Muslim.
That will always be rude in real life - no different than anyone trying to stir up controversy for its own sake - and of course, you are doing no differently here. Appeal to ridicule is what you have done consistently on any topic with Muslims - but in this one, the racial prejudice you did on the issue was more than evident.
No one said you were obliged to read things here. Others do NOT have to tolerate you being rude when going into discussions you have ZERO intention dealing with on topic - and it does NOT have to be allowed when you show racial prejudice by labeling all BLACK Muslims as terrorists for 9/11,
You can either cease the behavior...or please get over it when others do not take you seriously when it's evident you did not want to deal with the history. This is NOT your thread - so you can take conversation elsewhere if you want the discussion to be on something else besides the main topic.
And on the issue, people have demonstrated far more reasonable discussion than you have since folks have sat down for coffee for hours listening/going back and forth on a specific topic.
So again, if you want to be rude, there are better places to do that than with others wanting to discuss issues on topic.
Bottom line: You showed a lack of awareness on a topic BEFORE commenting - and you never dealt with the issue, so it is speaking in disagreement with something you did not deal with. You had a stereotype - a caricature - and did not care to deal with the inaccurate aspects of it when putting that forward as if that's what people were discussing. I couldn't care less about whether you disagree since your disagreement was not based on an informed response or anything pertaining to the subject.
And this was the subject:
You already had the topic outlined - you avoided it.
You cannot intelligently disagree with an issue when you didn't deal with the topic. Discussing mathematics and saying "2+2=4" mean nothing if you come in claiming "But I love the alphabet and I disagree!!" ...no one cares if you disagree.
Get over it.
As your response is not something I've seen many older adults really take seriously (especially when trying to make a discussion personal because someone called you out on where you came in wanting to start a fight/derail), I would seriously suggest learning how to stay on topic. People here who are Muslim and Christian have disagreed PLENTY of times with me (and I with them) but we're committed to discussing intelligently on issues. And it is unhealthy trying to jump into things for the sake of argument and then throw a fit.
Coming in to talk on issues without being informed is hardly an issue of learning to accept people disagreeing. So the appeal to emotion is lacking on your part again. When a discussion is about one topic and you come in DEMANDING to discuss another, it is not about disagreement. It is about an inability to show awareness of what the issues are and chasing the wrong issues.
And as already stated, people disagreeing with me have ALREADY noted they saw where you were avoiding the issue. There are plenty of others I am friends with here whom we disagree with and yet we are able to stay focused on a topic - and disagree agreeably since we're focused on the same issue.
But again, there's no need for further discussing so long as you refuse to deal with the main topic of discussion.
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What you noted is something that is sadly avoided in our times today and it is bad enough. I've seen that on the discussion a lot when it comes to stereotyping Muslims - and then avoiding the history of Muslims in Minority communities.
Being West Indian and having friends who've come to America from Latin American countries (i.e. Costa Rica, Panama, Barbados, Dominican Republic, Mexico and others coming up) and to see religious development in other nations is a VERY real reality - as Islam has come through the backdoor of Latin America (with my mom being from Panama) and other Muslims living in the Caribbean - one of my good sisters was from Trinidad and her uncle was the founder of Ahmadiyya Muslim Community in Trinidad - so it is a different world many are not aware of and it doesn't take going to the Middle East to see it.
- Ramadan 2015 In Latin America: Latino Muslims? = )
- "U.S. Latina/o Muslims Since 1920: From “Moors” to “Latino Muslims”
- Latino Muslims in the United States After 9/11: The Triple Bind".
- a Causa: Civil Rights, Social Justice and the Struggle for Equality ...
- Crescent Over Another Horizon: Islam in Latin America, the ...
What we both grew up seeing (as she did growing up Muslims with numerous other Islamic communities) and the way you learned to work with others (as my mom was a devoted Christian) it something I wish others were more aware of. For Muslims in the U.S.
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- Jan 25, 2009
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Was glad when I attended the Smithsonian Museum of the African American during the opening week that they had this on display:
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- Jan 25, 2009
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As an aside, I came across this recently and was very thankful for the review it gave when showing how complicated the reality of slavery was.
As important as it is to remember the African Slave Trade and its roots, it helps to Remember where the slave trade started - and as much as it impacted folks of Black Descent with the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade, many forget about the Mediteranean slave trade that brought many folks to that part of the world. This is not at all something said to dismiss others when they see that historical realities that have impacted us are still here - and this is not said to make it out as if the focus now shifts from blaming all Whites as a THE problem to saying "Look at the ARABS!!!!" because that world is not monolithic either. And there are numerous Arabic people with amazing stories.
Nonetheless, I think we need to get the context correct when it comes to seeing what occurred with the Global Black experience. I do not have a mindset that excludes Black shades from the Middle Eastern or Near-Eastern context, as I've said multiple times that reading in scripture will show you QUICKLY on the African/North East African context that they took place in.
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