Muslim-only gated community with mosque, Islamic school, apartments and childcare centre rejected

[rambot]

Race is an artificial concept.
White people are people, and black people are people.

That is all the differentiation that we need to have. Everything else is stereoptyping, or more precisely, race-baiting.

That's true! I remember how America was built, and frankly, could NEVER have achieved the greatness that it did on the basis of the HUGE influx of white slaves from Europe.
It's easy for us to sit here and say "race is an artificial concept" but that doesn't stop some bigot from choosing to not hire a black person.

Call me when EVERYONE realizes that race is an artificial concept. Until those that repress those BECAUSE of race understand that, I'm gonna have to work on the assumption that it isn't.

 

[rambot]

I am against a gated community of this type because it denies access to everyone else. So one could not shop in their stores, eat in their restaurants, etc. But they would still have full access to everything outside those walls. That is called segregation which has been proven to be harmful to society as a whole.

But you have no problems with the 10s of thousands of OTHER gated communities in the states. Or at least, you certainly haven't brought attention to your disgust at rich white people keeping you out.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Bad parenting is the fault of the police?

I said they walked into my home. Unannounced. Without knocking first.

...I don't understand why you had to say that. Nor do I want to understand it.

 

[rambot]

One time, when my oldest daughter was 6, I fell asleep and she apparently dialed 911 to see how that works and hung up the phone.

...Well I woke up on the couch with police yelling at me. They separated me from my little daughter and started interrogating her in the kitchen. Then they started cussing at me in front of her when I asked them why they barged in without knocking. They just walked right into my house like they owned the place.

The cops broke the law because they knew they could get away with it... They just need to say they didn't. And so they didn't.

Safety and security of a child is not important I guess hey?
No. That's ridiculous. Of course it's important and of course you'd agree.
They didn't walk in like they owned the place; they walked in because they were concerned about the 911 call. People usually call 911 when there is an emergency. I worked with someone who worked at a call centre. It was very common for police to respond to 911 calls by going into homes if children were involved. I don't know what procedures are there but if something happens like what your daughter said you did (call and hang up), 911 usually calls back to confirm the issue and if nobody picks up, they send someone out. and if nobody answers the door, they go in.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Safety and security of a child is not important I guess hey?
No. That's ridiculous. Of course it's important and of course you'd agree.
They didn't walk in like they owned the place; they walked in because they were concerned about the 911 call. People usually call 911 when there is an emergency. I worked with someone who worked at a call centre. It was very common for police to respond to 911 calls by going into homes if children were involved. I don't know what procedures are there but if something happens like what your daughter said you did (call and hang up), 911 usually calls back to confirm the issue and if nobody picks up, they send someone out. and if nobody answers the door, they go in.

No they don't go in. They're not allowed to do that unless there is an obvious sign like screaming, a trail of blood, etc.

They broke the law.

 

[rambot]

No they don't go in. They're not allowed to do that unless there is an obvious sign like screaming, a trail of blood, etc.

They broke the law.

And you know this as a procedure how?

 

[Landon Caeli]

Most people don't realize that police are not obligated to respond to distress calls...

https://www.google.com/amp/tribunis...ve-no-duty-to-protect-the-general-public/amp/

 

[Hank77]

But you have no problems with the 10s of thousands of OTHER gated communities in the states. Or at least, you certainly haven't brought attention to your disgust at rich white people keeping you out.

As far as I know those communities are only private homes, so no I don't have any problem with people keeping me out of their private home area. Not everyone is welcome to traipse around on my home's property either.

 

[Landon Caeli]

And you know this as a procedure how?

the Sixth Circuit published a decision clarifying that the police do not need a warrant to enter and search your home when responding to a 911 call on behalf of an injured person where there is evidence that someone may be hurt.

Warrantless Entry Allowed In Response to 911 Call Where There is Evidence of Injury | Varnum LLP

 

[Hank77]

But you have no problems with the 10s of thousands of OTHER gated communities in the states. Or at least, you certainly haven't brought attention to your disgust at rich white people keeping you out.

Oh and not all gated communities are inhabited by rich people either. Our friends in CA are not 'rich' though they make a nice living. My son-in-laws parents are retired, not rich not poor live in a gated community in FL. There are low income only apartment complexes that are gated.

 

[Hank77]

the Sixth Circuit published a decision clarifying that the police do not need a warrant to enter and search your home when responding to a 911 call on behalf of an injured person where there is evidence that someone may be hurt.

Warrantless Entry Allowed In Response to 911 Call Where There is Evidence of Injury | Varnum LLP

MAY be hurt. Just the call to 911 is plenty of evidence that someone MAY be hurt.

May be being held against their will, etc.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Oh and not all gated communities are inhabited by rich people either. Our friends in CA are not 'rich' though they make a nice living. My son-in-laws parents are retired, not rich not poor live in a gated community in FL. There are low income only apartment complexes that are gated.

My parents live in a gated retirement community in Arizona. But they do their shopping outside the comminity, and there is no community Church that everyone there agrees on either.

...Everyone gets old. I'm glad to grant senior citizens of every color and faith their own community if that's what they want.

 

[Landon Caeli]

MAY be hurt. Just the call to 911 is plenty of evidence that someone MAY be hurt.

May be being held against their will, etc.

Not according to the law it's not. They need actual evidence.

(I've already gone over this with other police officers and attorneys. They broke the law.)

 

[squirrel123]

Not according to the law it's not. They need actual evidence.

I don't know your laws, so I won't comment on that. However, If my 6-year-old called 911, I would want to the police to do whatever it takes to get to her, to make sure she's ok, even if that broke some laws.

If there was an intruder in your house who knocked you out, and who then found your kid calling 911 and stopped her, and did something to her to stop her screaming (anywhere on the scale from a hand over her mouth to murder), would you have been happy if the police arrived at your house, saw everything was quiet, and left without attempting to enter?

 

[Redac]

Strange. There are areas where minority groups just naturally congregate; not to avoid integrating, but to maintain a level of sanity, comfort and predictability.

Perhaps, but even if that's not their original intention, a lack of integration and assimilation is what tends to happen, especially when numbers get larger and the need to actually interact with the outside decreases. It remains a problem regardless of the intent.

Folks who complain about "outsiders not fitting in" rarely seem to have experienced living abroad as a minority over a long term (which is fine); It's just that they don't quite understand the experience and the struggles (and motivations and desires).

If we've experienced it, does it make our opinions on the subject more relevant?

They are paranoid and worried they're REALLY just gaining a foothold to take over.

This does begin to happen at some point, even if there's no grand conspiracy behind it.

It's more that they are trying to steady themselves because they are affraid they are going to get washed away.

If they aren't prepared to assimilate and integrate to whatever extent they are able, perhaps they should live somewhere else.

 

[Hank77]

Most people don't realize that police are not obligated to respond to distress calls...

https://www.google.com/amp/tribunis...ve-no-duty-to-protect-the-general-public/amp/

What an argument for gun rights those cases are.

 

[SolomonVII]

I am against a gated community of this type because it denies access to everyone else. So one could not shop in their stores, eat in their restaurants, etc. But they would still have full access to everything outside those walls. That is called segregation which has been proven to be harmful to society as a whole.

America is actually the example here for the rest of the world to follow. America's Muslim population is among the least radicalized in the Western world. The expectation in America is integration, if not assimilation. France has got its Islamic, often Islamist suburbs; England has entire villages replicated the Pakistani countryside, complete with cousin marriage. Their Islamic populations are accordingly radicalized.
The expectation in America though is that people will assimilate American values, become Americans in every aspect of the word.

This is not to say that segregation according to ethnicity still does not happen. But perhaps American history is working in its favor this time. Overall, segregation is viewed very negatively by most Americans-as it should be given its very negative history. It is considered to be a failure of the past rather than the hope for a multicultural future.

 

[rambot]

Perhaps, but even if that's not their original intention, a lack of integration and assimilation is what tends to happen, especially when numbers get larger and the need to actually interact with the outside decreases. It remains a problem regardless of the intent.

Have you had the pleasure of living as a minority in another country? I have. It's gREAT! Integration and assimilation does not happen when the home culture is not welcoming to them. Remember: Immigrants CHOOSE their new country purposefully and with GREAT consideration. They believe that there is something in "that place" that they can benefit from. If you are a guest in your neighbour's house and your neighbour welcomes you in, is friendly and hospitable, you will have good feelings toward them and want to spend more time with them. If your neighbour is not welcoming, feels your presence is an imposition and is SOLELY focussed on ensuring you obey the rules of his house (no shoes in the house, don't move the christmas diorama pieces), you feel that you are an imposition and you feel unwelcome.
It is silly to think that minorities will ever "stop" interacting with locals; they are almost TOTALLY immersed in the culture and experience of being an outsider. Also, if their new culture has been welcoming to previous immigrants, THOSE immigrants will shine a more positive light on the new culture on newcomers.

If we've experienced it, does it make our opinions on the subject more relevant?

Yes; it likely makes it better informed. It's like, experience gives you greater knowledge.

This does begin to happen at some point, even if there's no grand conspiracy behind it.

No, no it does not. That is fear based talk. SOOOOOO many european nations have had immigration from far off places for centuries, and yet their cultures thrive.

If they aren't prepared to assimilate and integrate to whatever extent they are able, perhaps they should live somewhere else.

So when you say "assimilate and integrate", what do you mean exactly? Because there are children bullying and teasing minority students for eating their ethnic food (and no doubt adults who do it too).
If it means "abide by the rules of the land", I agree. If it means they have to drop every cultural practice that is important to them, well, I disagree with that.

 

[rambot]

America is actually the example here for the rest of the world to follow. America's Muslim population is among the least radicalized in the Western world.

Source for this claim? Because the way I hear Americans posting here, SOMETHING seems unbelievable.

The expectation in America is integration, if not assimilation. France has got its Islamic, often Islamist suburbs; England has entire villages replicated the Pakistani countryside, complete with cousin marriage. Their Islamic populations are accordingly radicalized.
The expectation in America though is that people will assimilate American values, become Americans in every aspect of the word.

True but "the Western world" is a LOT more than England and France.

 

[SolomonVII]

Source for this claim? Because the way I hear Americans posting here, SOMETHING seems unbelievable.

Here is a fairly liberal source for my comment, which is fairly common knowledge around here, especially among CF liberals.
https://www.economist.com/news/unit...-better-america-europe-islamic-yet-integrated