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Muhammad Ali, is he really as great.....

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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I'm not saying it doesn't/has never happened. However, you're acting like it's suddenly okay that it was done in Ali's case just because a Christian here or there has done it on occasion in the past. I mean, that was your point, right? Separation of church and state is something that should be adhered to and not excused when violated in every case. What I posted is actually relevant to the topic at hand- but just because you and others keep bringing up incidents of other people doing it too doesn't suddenly make what was done right.

ETA- my posting history on this board has always been one of being for adherence to this principle- even when it's Christians violating it.
Actually I not real okay religion being forced on students . I just think when Christians force people to listen to them. It's way worse then Muhammed Ali not forcing students to come and watch him. Now if Muhammed Ali or the school forced the students to listen to him. Then I would have a problem with that.
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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I believe that the Carpenter from Nazareth is the Way, the Truth and the Life. I believe He is the Savior of the world. It makes me sad to think how many impressionable people may have been led away from Him because of Mohammed Ali.


Now in the Bible we are told of a Man Who believed in Adam and Eve and Noah as being actual, historical figures. The Bible says He did miracles and told others to do things like raise the dead and heal the sick. It also describes His death and burial. Is there any actual scientific data to support those stories? Absolutely.

See Medical Marvel Beyond Chance, from a secular source, with a pediatrician giving his report. this one attesting to a dying child's healing which cannot be explained by modern medicine, and came after a relative laid hands on her and prayed for her.

See secular news reports about Val Thomas, dead for 17 hours but now also alive and normal after prayers from her family and her Church.

Here is some more documented, scientific, evidence, not nearly all of it at all. See CBN Dean Braxton. You'll hear his critical care doctor, rated the best patient care doctor in Washington state, saying "It is a miracle...a miracle..." that Braxton is alive, has no brain damage and is normal in every way. Why? He had no heart beat and no respiration for 1 3/4 hours! His family believed in divine healing and they and others were praying for him. Also see CBN Dr. Chauncey Crandall Raises A Man From The Dead.

Get Dr. Richard Casdorph's book The Miracles. There he gives medical documentation for miracles, mostly, but not all, from Kathryn Kuhlman's healing services. Casdorph came to Kuhlman's meetings to debunk her but turned into a supporter, as did other doctors. You can see him and other doctors in some of her healing services on YT. (She is now deceased.) Delores Winder is one of the cases documented in his book. You can watch her amazing story on YT with Sid Roth. The book The Audacity of Prayer by Don Nordin lists medically documented miracles.

On Andrew Wommack's vids you can see doctors talking about "miracles" too. Check out the YT vid with the opthamologist who says Yes, Ronald Coyne could see out of an empty eye socket after a faith healer prayed for him. You can see him doing demos. At the end of the book Don't Limit God you see a medical statement by a doctor saying that his patient used to have M.S. and diabetes but is now cured.

And btw do you think that Someone Who can raise the dead and heal people of deadly "incurable" diseases, Someone Who created time, space, matter, energy and you - needed "evolution" to make life forms? No He created them fully formed and fully functional in 6 days just as Genesis, a Book He always supported, tells you.

Then there is the Shroud of Turin. If you don't know, the Shroud is a linen burial shroud with the faint image of a crucified man on it. It is the most scientifically studied artifact in history. If you have heard that the Shroud was proven to be a Medieval fake based on carbon 14 testing, in the documentary Jesus And The Shroud of Turin you can see the very inventor of carbon 14 testing saying that the sample was invalid due to contamination.

The vid demonstrates many more miraculous features such as pollen from Jerusalem and faint images of flowers that are found only in the Jerusalem area during the spring, as at Passover when Messiah was crucified. With modern technology we also see that the Shroud has an x ray quality which reveals bones and dentition of the Man on the Shroud.

Maybe start out with a short vid, though,The Jew And The Shroud on Tedx, with Barry Schwortz.

In the 70s a NASA scientist noticed the Shroud's photographs had inexplicable, unique in the world, qualities. He got up a team of scientists, called STURP, to examine it in person in Italy. (No, the Shroud is not "just a Catholic thing" as the Vatican only came into possession of it fairly recently in history.) They used NASA, and other, high tech equipment with 100s of thousands of hours of research. Their findings are seen all over the net and were published in respected science journals.

The team was composed of 3 Jews, at least one agnostic and one atheist, and people of various faiths. They all agreed on these things: There is no paint on the Shroud and they have no clue how the image got there. It exactly matches, down to blood stains where a crown of thorns would be, the description of Messiah's death and burial as given in the Bible, what NT writers report. The image could not be duplicated with modern technology.

These miracles are not what many would call proof. But they are certainly evidence. In a court of law you generally rely on evidence, not proof, as the actual crime is historical and cannot usually be observed (unless there was a video cam.)

I pray for all who read this post that we will all meet in Heaven some day.
tl;dr & OT
 
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seashale76

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Actually I not real okay religion being forced on students . I just think when Christians force people to listen to them. It's way worse then Muhammed Ali not forcing students to come and watch him. Now if Muhammed Ali or the school forced the students to listen to him. Then I would have a problem with that.
I have already told you that it was not an optional assembly for me when I was a student. I had to sit there in a public school and was proselytized to by Muhammad Ali. However, you're trying to claim it's worse when Christians do it than when anyone else does? Really? Hmm...
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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I have already told you that it was not an optional assembly for me when I was a student. I had to sit there in a public school and was proselytized to by Muhammad Ali. However, you're trying to claim it's worse when Christians do it than when anyone else does? Really? Hmm...
I'm thinking when you went to school people discussing religion was legal. Kids have rights now, they don't have to listen to a Muslim speaker if they don't want to. If you weren't allowed to walk out and didn't sue. It's really not my concern.
 
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LoricaLady

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tl;dr & OT
I don't know what those symbols mean. I offered scientific reports from scientific sources. If you don't like them, a more intelligent response would be to present scientific evidence refuting what I posted.
 
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seashale76

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I'm thinking when you went to school people discussing religion was legal. Kids have rights now, they don't have to listen to a Muslim speaker if they don't want to. If you weren't allowed to walk out and didn't sue. It's really not my concern.
No. It was not legal back when I was in school either. We've had this separation of church and state thing for a while. What I don't understand is why you keep responding to me to argue about it and making it seem like you're totally fine with that occurring- as long as it is anyone else besides a Christian doing it.
 
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LoricaLady

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tl;dr & OT
P.S. Oh I seem to remember that tl dr means too long dear. Too long for you. Some have been very happy to get the information. It takes a long time to break through prejudices and faulty paradigms, btw. This I know from personal experience.
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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His arrogant style was repulsive to me.
I never even heard about his arrogant styles until he died. All I ever seen of him was after he had Parkinson.
 
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Tinker Grey

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I don't know what those symbols mean. I offered scientific reports from scientific sources. If you don't like them, a more intelligent response would be to present scientific evidence refuting what I posted.
Too Long; Didn't Read & Off Topic.
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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No. It was not legal back when I was in school either. We've had this separation of church and state thing for a while. What I don't understand is why you keep responding to me to argue about it and making it seem like you're totally fine with that occurring- as long as it is anyone else besides a Christian doing it.
Actually. I rather not have any religion of any kind in school. But if you didn't walk out. That's on you. If you couldn't walk out, then you could have sued the school and choose not too. That's on you. But ever religion seems to bug people about their religion, Not just Ali.
 
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seashale76

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Actually. I rather not have any religion of any kind in school. But if you didn't walk out. That's on you. If you couldn't walk out, then you could have sued the school and choose not too. That's on you. But ever religion seems to bug people about their religion, Not just Ali.
I was thirteen. Also- no- every religious person actually doesn't bug everyone about their religion. Having been a teacher- it was a rare occurrence for me to ever see students doing so amongst their peers either. Again- you're trying to make this about other people- and that isn't the topic.
 
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LoricaLady

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Too Long; Didn't Read & Off Topic.
It would take about 5 minutes to read. Stretch you mind. See if you can refute scientific evidence for the Messiah. What if you're missing out on something, or I should say Someone?

Here is something off topic too: There is an Almighty and He loves you and wants you to know and love Him too. And it's not Allah.
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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P.S. Oh I seem to remember that tl dr means too long dear. Too long for you. Some have been very happy to get the information. It takes a long time to break through prejudices and faulty paradigms, btw. This I know from personal experience.

And OT means off topic. Your post was not germane to the thread or the News and Current Events subforum.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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I don't know what 'usually' is, but when I was in high school, the Power Team came and lifted weights for Jesus at a mandatory assembly. 30 years later, they're still in business.

I remember we had those guys show up at our school when I was younger. I don't remember them distinctly proselytizing...I remember them referring to their own faith, but not specifically trying to necessarily recruit anyone.

Perhaps court rulings and laws have made them revise their act? When I was in school and they came in, it was probably some time in the mid-late 90's.

I think the real irony of their act, is that they spent nearly 75% of their time teaching on the dangers of drug use...now looking back on it, there's a few of those guys who I bet wouldn't have passed a drug test...or at the very least, were on the gear at some point in their power lifting careers.
 
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LoricaLady

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And OT means off topic. Your post was not germane to the thread or the News and Current Events subforum.
I noticed someone above posting a rather long piece all about being a Moslem. Somehow I fail to see how that is not OT, as you say. It seems two people on this string are complaining about information being presented about one faith only.

This is a Christian website. Did you notice that?
 
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Far Side Of the Moon

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You're invited to insult the legacy of a dead man. Post here! :) Show proof!
In Jesus name?
Wow...then you aren't much of a Christian..people who insult a dead man because of a holier than thou complex have something wrong with them.
 
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LoricaLady

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And OT means off topic. Your post was not germane to the thread or the News and Current Events subforum.

P.S. I was glancing over this string and noticed more off topic areas which you didn't feel any need to make complaints about. Not only was there the long, glowing description of why one person loves Islam, some people are also talking about unpleasant religious indoctrination in schools, some are debating about whether or not someone can insult the dead, etc. Why is it that those topics don't cause you any problems but you want to restrict the topic of the One that this website is to honor? Rhetorical Q but one perhaps that it would be good for you to ponder.
 
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Landon Caeli

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Wow...then you aren't much of a Christian..people who insult a dead man because of a holier than thou complex have something wrong with them.

Is there something wrong with them if they dont have the holier than thou complex yet still insult the dead?
 
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Blondepudding

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Wow...then you aren't much of a Christian..people who insult a dead man because of a holier than thou complex have something wrong with them.
You're right. I'm not much of a Christian. :) Thank you.
 
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