Muhammad Ali, is he really as great.....

[Larniavc]

Where did I take a "sly pop"?

By making this thread. To clarify. My uncle (coincidently) died this morning. He and I did not see eye to eye and there were numerous faults I believe the man had.

It would be enormously poor form to make a thread here to enumerate these faults.

Do you see, now?

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

I keep reading a few people mumble about him being a draft dodger on Facebook. But I've always heard the war wasn't our place. So maybe he has a point about that.

Among the Facebook vet community, from what I can see.. all of a sudden.. he is a draft dodging coward and they hate him. But they are doing like a false comparison.. comparing him to like Dakokta Meyer for some reason. that is like the wrong person to compare to. Seems silly and petty to me. I had a huge long list of replies when I I thought he was still a hero for different reasons.

I am noticing a bad trend among american culture, that spans across all spectrum of politics or beliefs:
everyone is free to think what they want, unless it disagrees with me.

 

[LoricaLady]

I did not think so, at least I tried to make it even handed...I don't have anything against or for Ali; a great boxer but past that I don't know much aabout his personal life which is what I am looking for.... good or not so good. That is why I was asking for supporting evidence of a persons statement.

I have something against him, as mentioned. Boxing is entertainment. He was at the top in his field. Where is he now, though? Rhetorical Q of course.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

I did not think so, at least I tried to make it even handed...I don't have anything against or for Ali; a great boxer but past that I don't know much aabout his personal life which is what I am looking for.... good or not so good. That is why I was asking for supporting evidence of a persons statement.

well there is this:

But what is perhaps one of his most important but least known accomplishments is how he travelled to Iraq in 1990 to negotiate the release of 15 United States citizens taken hostage by Saddam Hussein after his invasion of Kuwait.

http://www.sportskeeda.com/boxing/the-forgotten-tale-of-ali-15-freed-hostages-and-saddam-hussein

 

[Chesterton]

I'm fairly certain everyone here is human, though I could be wrong.

ChrisBot: I am real.

 

[LoricaLady]

By making this thread. To clarify. My uncle (coincidently) died this morning. He and I did not see eye to eye and there were numerous faults I believe the man had.

It would be enormously poor form to make a thread here to enumerate these faults.

Do you see, now?

No one was asked to enumerate faults. There was an open ended question that could have gotten responses in either direction. Your uncle wasn't famous. If he had been famous he would have been up for grabs, or comments, by the masses.

 

[Larniavc]

No one was asked to enumerate faults. There was an open ended question that could have gotten responses in either direction. Your uncle wasn't famous. If he had been famous he would have been up for grabs, or comments, by the masses.

In the initial post.

"Is that really true or is there another less tolerant and humanitarian side to him?"

Asking for evidence of his faults.

Like I said: poor form and not what I would expect from a Christian. I was brought up to believe that Christians would be too compassionate to go online asking people to provide evidence for an imperfect human's flaws very soon after he had died.

 

[LoricaLady]

In the initial post.

"Is that really true or is there another less tolerant and humanitarian side to him?"

Asking for evidence of his faults.

Like I said: poor form and not what I would expect from a Christian. I was brought up to believe that Christians would be too compassionate to go online asking people to provide evidence for an imperfect human's flaws very soon after he had died.

Christians are flawed and confused people who - hopefully - are moving more and more toward perfection (though rarely fully obtaining it in this life.)

When famous people die it is natural to reflect on what their lives actually were all about, for good or bad. Is that "unchristian"? Well, it all depends on the spirit with which it is done.

 

[civilwarbuff]

By making this thread. To clarify. My uncle (coincidently) died this morning. He and I did not see eye to eye and there were numerous faults I believe the man had.

It would be enormously poor form to make a thread here to enumerate these faults.

Do you see, now?

Sorry for your loss.
However, was your uncle famous? Is the major media extolling his virtues? Does he have foreign dignataries coming to his funeral? Is his funeral going to be a miles long parade attended by thousands? Then I don't think he qualifies the way M.A., or anyone other celebrity whose life is celebrated publicly, qualifies. I asked the question even handedly; as I said I know little about his personal life. Other people may know more and I am asking that they share. As someone pointed out earlier a celebrity spends a hour in a hospital or school talking and signing autographs and the media extoll his humanitarianism. There are people who spend major parts of their life serving others with little or no notice. The bar should not be so low. So, what did M.A. accomplish to lauded so publicly as such a compassionate individual? Or does he not deserve being thought of in that manner? There are many apologists for him so I don't believe he is at a disadvantage of not being able to defend himself.

 

[civilwarbuff]

In the initial post.

"Is that really true or is there another less tolerant and humanitarian side to him?"

Asking for evidence of his faults.

Lets put both sentences together so the context is there:

For the past week the press has lionized Ali as a great, wonderful, compassionate individual. Is that really true or is there another less tolerant and humanitarian side to him?

 

[civilwarbuff]

In the initial post.

"Is that really true or is there another less tolerant and humanitarian side to him?"

Asking for evidence of his faults.

Like I said: poor form and not what I would expect from a Christian. I was brought up to believe that Christians would be too compassionate to go online asking people to provide evidence for an imperfect human's flaws very soon after he had died.

Are you just here to criticize me and my OP or do you have something to contribute to the question?

 

[LoricaLady]

Sorry for your loss.
However, was your uncle famous? Is the major media extolling his virtues? Does he have foreign dignataries coming to his funeral? Is his funeral going to be a miles long parade attended by thousands? Then I don't think he qualifies the way M.A., or anyone other celebrity whose life is celebrated publicly, qualifies. I asked the question even handedly; as I said I know little about his personal life. Other people may know more and I am asking that they share. As someone pointed out earlier a celebrity spends a hour in a hospital or school talking and signing autographs and the media extoll his humanitarianism. There are people who spend major parts of their life serving others with little or no notice. The bar should not be so low. So, what did M.A. accomplish to lauded so publicly as such a compassionate individual? Or does he not deserve being thought of in that manner? There are many apologists for him so I don't believe he is at a disadvantage of not being able to defend himself.

The world is doing its worldly thing as usual. Someone who could punch someone in the head, hard enough to knock him unconscious, is lauded and adored. He has had his reward. Those who, as you say, have been "serving others with little or no notice" will have unending reward beyond imagining, however.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

How many of us here can say we saved a man from suicide?

 

[civilwarbuff]

How many of us here can say we saved a man from suicide?

Chalk one up for Ali.....good for him.

 

[Larniavc]

Are you just here to criticize me and my OP or do you have something to contribute to the question?

Just to criticise this thread.

 

[bhsmte]

The world is doing its worldly thing as usual. Someone who could punch someone in the head, hard enough to knock him unconscious, is lauded and adored. He has had his reward. Those who, as you say, have been "serving others with little or no notice" will have unending reward beyond imagining, however.

What Ali did in the ring, was a small part of his life.

To me, he helped many more people than your average person and was willing to stand for what he believed in and go out on a limb to help others.

To me, how many people a person helps, in a positive way, is the best measure of the life they led.

 

[LoricaLady]

How many of us here can say we saved a man from suicide?

How many of us are focused on worldly things and worldly accomplishments? "What does it profit a man if he gains the world and loses his soul?" If Ali saved a man's life, great. If that man went after Allah, thanks to Ali, well, re read the Bible verse.

Saving a life is great. For awhile. Saving a soul, especially one's own, is forever.

Many, many people save others' lives. This includes doctors, nurses, EMS workers etc. etc. They aren't getting any press as a rule. Many people have talked others down from bridges where they were going to jump. Someone whose big deal is that he could punch someone unconcscious is somehow more special than all of them? I don't think so.

 

[bhsmte]

How many of us are focused on worldly things and worldly accomplishments? "What does it profit a man if he gains the world and loses his soul?" If Ali saved a man's life, great. If that man went after Allah, thanks to Ali, well, re read the Bible verse.

Saving a life is great. For awhile. Saving a soul, especially one's own, is forever.

Many, many people save others' lives. This includes doctors, nurses, EMS workers etc. etc. They aren't getting any press as a rule. Many people have talked others down from bridges where they were going to jump. Someone whose big deal is that he can punch someone unconcscious is somehow more special than all of them? I don't think so.

Does it bother you that Ali was not a Christian?

 

[GoldenBoy89]

How many of us are focused on worldly things and worldly accomplishments? "What does it profit a man if he gains the world and loses his soul?" If Ali saved a man's life, great. If that man went after Allah, thanks to Ali, well, re read the Bible verse.

Saving a life is great. For awhile. Saving a soul, especially one's own, is forever.

Many, many people save others' lives. This includes doctors, nurses, EMS workers etc. etc. They aren't getting any press as a rule. Many people have talked others down from bridges where they were going to jump. Someone whose big deal is that he can punch someone unconcscious is somehow more special than all of them? I don't think so.

How many boxers (or athletes, in general) can say they talked someone down from suicide? Did you watch the video? They're was a psychologist and a pastor and both failed where Ali succeeded. Maybe it was specifically his celebrity status that helped convince the man it wasn't worth it.

 

[civilwarbuff]

How many boxers (or athletes, in general) can say they talked someone down from suicide? Did you watch the video? They're was a psychologist and a pastor and both failed where Ali succeeded. Maybe it was specifically his celebrity status that helped convince the man it wasn't worth it.

It most likely was his celebrity status but he certainly put it to good use.....