(Moved) The law. Is it done away with? Is it, really?

[klutedavid]

Interesting opinion you have there - you are welcomed to it of course.

Or did you intend to actually show the OT text saying all gentiles had to be circumcised - just as in Isaiah 56:1-8 Gentiles were to keep Sabbath -- and in fact "all mankind" to keep Sabbath Isaiah 66:23.

Discussion has gone on for many many months - still waiting for you to post that text.

Hello Bob.

Waiting to post what text?

 

[Dig4truth]

Hello Bob.

If a Gentile wanted to celebrate the Passover they had to be circumcised, which I have already demonstrated (Exodus 12:48).

Your quotation from Isaiah 56, regarding a sojourner joining the old covenant, they are required to sacrifice.

Isaiah 56
6 “Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath
And holds fast My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

On the one hand you claim sacrifices are abolished, yet these verses indicate the Gentile will sacrifice.

There is a problem with your quotation from Isaiah 56, you can't get around this one.

If you watch the video I linked to in post #736 you can find the answer.

 

[klutedavid]

Again, I ask the same question: "I have seen in Scripture that Israel will be a nation before God as long as the earth exists as normal."

Jer 31:35 Thus says the LORD,
Who gives the sun for light by day
And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar;
The LORD of hosts is His name:
36“If this fixed order departs
From before Me,” declares the LORD,
“Then the offspring of Israel also will cease
From being a nation before Me forever.”

Has this fixed order departed? If not then please justify your position with Scripture.
Please don't argue with me, graple with the Word of God.

Hello Dig4truth.

Simple question, did Israel cease to be a nation?

Answer: Yes

Thus the fixed order must have ceased, could it be that Christ established a new creation altogether?

 

[klutedavid]

If you watch the video I linked to in post #736 you can find the answer.

Hello Dig4truth.

You are failing to admit that Israel as a nation, has not existed for two thousand years.
How do you explain this absence of the existence of the nation?

 

[Dig4truth]

Didn't say it did.

But isn't it more of a people group, ie Hebrews, like a blood line?

God calls them a nation, you can call them whatever you like.

 

[Dig4truth]

Hello Dig4truth.

Simple question, did Israel cease to be a nation?

Answer: Yes

Thus the fixed order must have ceased, could it be that Christ established a new creation altogether?

Are you being serious?

 

[Dig4truth]

Hello Dig4truth.

You are failing to admit that Israel as a nation, has not existed for two thousand years.
How do you explain this absence of the existence of the nation?

God says that they have not ceased to be a nation. And they did come back to their homeland, so it would seem that He was correct. But you can fight it if you desire.

 

[Dig4truth]

Hello Dig4truth.

You are failing to admit that Israel as a nation, has not existed for two thousand years.
How do you explain this absence of the existence of the nation?

How do you go against God who said that they would never cease to be a nation? Perhaps God has a different definition of nation other than dirt (land).

 

[Dig4truth]

Hello Dig4truth.

You are failing to admit that Israel as a nation, has not existed for two thousand years.
How do you explain this absence of the existence of the nation?

You seem to want to argue with me but God has said in His Word that they did NOT cease to be a nation. Deal with that with Scripture and then we'll talk.

 

[klutedavid]

God says that they have not ceased to be a nation. And they did come back to their homeland, so it would seem that He was correct. But you can fight it if you desire.

Hello Dig4truth.

Covenant Israel under the law will never be seen again.

Modern Israel has nothing to do with the law.

Old covenant Israel will be forever, only as long as they abide by that old covenant. Which they did not, so the nation itself was grafted out. Selective quoting from the Old Testament will not bring back the Israel of old.

 

[bugkiller]

Because I prefer a Bible based discussion.

You mean that is all you have to say about the verse I posted?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

you mean --- like this?

"circumcision is nothing and uncirumcision is nothing but what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

I find our logic "illusive"

What does your response have to do with Rom 2?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

hint - gentiles were not required to celebrate Passover in the OT or the NT.
Just as gentiles were not required to be circumcised in OT or NT - in order to worship the one true God.

Thus all the uncircumcised gentiles in Acts 13, and 17, and 18 in the Synagogues worshiping the one true God.

The point remains.

Yet (by contrast) ALL gentiles are told to keep the Sabbath in Isaiah 56:1-8 and Isaiah 66:23 - as we both know.

Sorry gentile converts after the resurrection are not required to submit to the covenant issued to Israel under the new covenant.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

And were not required to do it in the OT either.

There is some fictions these days that Gentiles were celebrating Passover in the NT without being circumcised - a thing they could not do in the OT (As we all know). But in fact that is complete fiction. No such discussion happens in the NT regarding Gentiles and Passover.

The point remains.

obviously.

Ex 12:48

bugkiller

 

[Dig4truth]

Hello Dig4truth.

Covenant Israel under the law will never be seen again.

Modern Israel has nothing to do with the law.

Old covenant Israel will be forever, only as long as they abide by that old covenant. Which they did not, so the nation itself was grafted out. Selective quoting from the Old Testament will not bring back the Israel of old.

Please give me a moment to digest all the Scripture you supplied, oh wait, there is none. Never mind.

 

[bugkiller]

Hello Dig4truth.

Israel was not a nation for two thousand years!

Does the fact that Israel was not inhabited for two thousand years, meaning anything to you?

Could it be that theocratic Israel is no more?

Is modern Israel under covenant law?

Great question.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

I think I stated earlier that if a gentile wanted to join the Hebrews in the Old Testament, they had to convert and be circumcised.

They did not have to become Jews or be circumcised to worship the one true God -- rather as separate nations -- in their own lands "My house shall be called a house of prayer for ALL NATIONS" - was God's plan for the world -- that OTHER nations would be worshipers of the ONE true God no matter that they were not Jews.

JUST as we SEE the uncircumcised worshiping God in the synagogues in Acts 13 and Acts 17:1-4 and Acts 18:1-5.

This is irrefutable.

God's plan was for Israel as a nation of PRIESTS and evangelists to spread the Gospel to the WORLD. Not that the world would be the priests - but just the Jews.

By CONTRAST if the gentiles wanted to also join that role as priest - a celebrate the Jewish feasts -- they had the option of ALSO becoming Jews.




Exodus 12:48–49

48 If a stranger shall sojourn with you and would keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised. Then he may come near and keep it; he shall be as a native of the land.

By contrast - ALL GENTILES were to keep the Sabbath... Isaiah 56:1-8... Isaiah 66:23

 

[bugkiller]

Again, I ask the same question: "I have seen in Scripture that Israel will be a nation before God as long as the earth exists as normal."

Jer 31:35 Thus says the LORD,
Who gives the sun for light by day
And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar;
The LORD of hosts is His name:
36“If this fixed order departs
From before Me,” declares the LORD,
“Then the offspring of Israel also will cease
From being a nation before Me forever.”

Has this fixed order departed? If not then please justify your position with Scripture.
Please don't argue with me, graple with the Word of God.

This new covenant is valid only for those who accept it (their Messiah, Jesus).

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

If a Gentile wanted to celebrate the Passover they had to be circumcised, which I have already demonstrated (Exodus 12:48).

Your quotation from Isaiah 56, regarding a sojourner joining the old covenant, they are required to sacrifice.

The term "Old Covenant" does not appear at all in Isaiah 56 and we both know it.

So without anything being made up - we read the text and it says

Isaiah 56
6 “Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath
And holds fast My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

1. The animal sacrifices had not been abolished for mankind in the OT - Cain and Abel included.

Obviously.

2. The NEW Covenant was in the OLD Testament Jer 31:31-33

3. The "GOSPEL has been preached to us JUST AS IT WAS TO THEM also" Hebrews 4:1-2
The "Gospel was preached to ABRAHAM" Gal 3:8

The gentiles were accepting the Gospel and keeping Sabbath in Isaiah 56 -- with absolutely NO reference to having them first be circumcised.

Just as they were not circumcised in Acts 13 or Acts 17:1-4 or Acts 18:1-5 in the synagogues of the NT.

The point remains.

 

[BobRyan]

This new covenant is valid only for those who accept it (their Messiah, Jesus).

bugkiller

The new Covenant is made with "the house of Israel and the house of Judah" -- Jer 31:31-33