(Moved) The law. Is it done away with? Is it, really?

[Dig4truth]

Are you serious? Did God not make LIGHTS? The lesser to rule the night and the greater to rule the day? One for a shadow, the other the reality. where do you come up with your rules?

Funny. We weren't talking about those kind of lights.

 

[FreeAtLast]

.....and of course you can back up this bald assertion with a reputable scholarly source?

Yes, the Scriptures and their chronology. And I'm not bald Have a nice day.

 

[Dig4truth]

Umm, I posted straight Scripture, no interpretations. Read the Scriptures for yourself. Look at the wording in the Scriptures. If you disagree, take it up with G-d, HE wrote them, not me.

Do you not believe Yeshua's New Covenant is G-d's Word (2 Timothy 3:16-17)?
16 All Scripture is breathed out by G-d and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of G-d may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Let's look at the one you chose:
Acts 15:10
10 Now, therefore, why are you putting G-d to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

So, this says that the Old Covenant Law of Moses was an "unbearable yoke". Again, if you want to argue that, you'll have to take it up with G-d, He wrote it.

As for you "bothering" or "playing games", hey, it's your choice, it makes no difference to me, but FYI, you can't blame anyone for what G-d wrote, just because you don't like it. Scripture is Scripture. You don't have to like it, but it's His Word.

By every verse you gave a brief synopsis of what you thought the verse means. That is an interpretation. By the way, you got a lot wrong in my opinion.

Another issue I have in your response is that you did not even acknowledge the verese from Deut 30:11-12

“For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’

This is straight from God firsthand. But you say that it is an unbearable yoke. There is a contradiction here. Please address this contradiction.

Your comment was: "The law is an unbearable yoke."

How does this harmonize with the very Words of God Himself?

Do you think maybe that the "yoke" spoken of was the oral traditions of the fathers and NOT the Torah of God? Just maybe?

 

[FreeAtLast]

By every verse you gave a brief synopsis of what you thought the verse means. That is an interpretation.

Actually, again, not true. Read each one, the wording is the same. No "interpretation".

By the way, you got a lot wrong in my opinion.

As I said, I posted pure Scripture. Scripture is NEVER wrong, it's how we interpret it that is wrong, but I only posted Scripture (if you bother to read it, you'd see.) If you don't like what it says, take it up with G-d. I didn't write it, I simply pasted it.

Actually, again, I DID respond by posting the exact wording from Scripture, no commentary. In case you missed it, here it is again.

"Umm, I posted straight Scripture, no interpretations. Read the Scriptures for yourself. Look at the wording in the Scriptures. If you disagree, take it up with G-d, HE wrote them, not me.

Do you not believe Yeshua's New Covenant is G-d's Word (2 Timothy 3:16-17)?
16 All Scripture is breathed out by G-d and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of G-d may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Let's look at the one you chose:
Acts 15:10
10 Now, therefore, why are you putting G-d to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

So, this says that the Old Covenant Law of Moses was an "unbearable yoke". Again, if you want to argue that, you'll have to take it up with G-d, He wrote it.

As for you "bothering" or "playing games", hey, it's your choice, it makes no difference to me, but FYI, you can't blame anyone for what G-d wrote, just because you don't like it. Scripture is Scripture. You don't have to like it, but it's His Word."

^^That was after you accused me of playing games and twisting Scripture and said you weren't bothering any more. Yet here you are.

And no, this does not reference the oral law, if you read the Scriptures in context, but rather it was Messianic Jews (born again Jews) telling Gentiles they had to be under the Law of Moses to be saved, as many Law Keepers are doing in these forums.

 

[Dig4truth]

Actually, again, not true. Read each one, the wording is the same. No "interpretation".



As I said, I posted pure Scripture. Scripture is NEVER wrong, it's how we interpret it that is wrong, but I only posted Scripture (if you bother to read it, you'd see.) If you don't like what it says, take it up with G-d. I didn't write it, I simply pasted it.

Actually, again, I DID respond by posting the exact wording from Scripture, no commentary. In case you missed it, here it is again.

"Umm, I posted straight Scripture, no interpretations. Read the Scriptures for yourself. Look at the wording in the Scriptures. If you disagree, take it up with G-d, HE wrote them, not me.

Do you not believe Yeshua's New Covenant is G-d's Word (2 Timothy 3:16-17)?
16 All Scripture is breathed out by G-d and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of G-d may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Let's look at the one you chose:
Acts 15:10
10 Now, therefore, why are you putting G-d to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

So, this says that the Old Covenant Law of Moses was an "unbearable yoke". Again, if you want to argue that, you'll have to take it up with G-d, He wrote it.

As for you "bothering" or "playing games", hey, it's your choice, it makes no difference to me, but FYI, you can't blame anyone for what G-d wrote, just because you don't like it. Scripture is Scripture. You don't have to like it, but it's His Word."

^^That was after you accused me of playing games and twisting Scripture and said you weren't bothering any more. Yet here you are.

And no, this does not reference the oral law, if you read the Scriptures in context, but rather it was Messianic Jews (born again Jews) telling Gentiles they had to be under the Law of Moses to be saved, as many Law Keepers are doing in these forums.

We can all read and we all know that you used a synopsis of the verses and not actual quotes.

Once again, you have ignored the clear teaching from God Himself about the Torah. Any comment at all on Deut 30:11-12 and how it harmonizes with your interpretation of the Acts passage?

 

[FreeAtLast]

We can all read and we all know that you used a synopsis of the verses and not actual quotes.

Once again, you have ignored the clear teaching from God Himself about the Torah. Any comment at all on Deut 30:11-12 and how it harmonizes with your interpretation of the Acts passage?

Once again, I have not ignored anything, stop goading will you? I have answered completely, from Scripture. You are free to disagree, graciously. Once again, what I posted was PURE Scripture, and once again, if you have a problem with the fact that Scripture says what it says, then please argue with the Author (G-d), not the messenger. Shalom.

 

[Dig4truth]

Once again, I have not ignored anything, stop goading will you? I have answered completely, from Scripture. You are free to disagree, graciously. Once again, what I posted was PURE Scripture, and once again, if you have a problem with the fact that Scripture says what it says, then please argue with the Author (G-d), not the messenger. Shalom.

Ok.

Here's a short vid that I think you will enjoy. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on it.

Shalom.

 

[listed]

By every verse you gave a brief synopsis of what you thought the verse means. That is an interpretation. By the way, you got a lot wrong in my opinion.

Another issue I have in your response is that you did not even acknowledge the verese from Deut 30:11-12

This passage is about temporal life on the planet. Read the rest of the chapter. The blessings and curses apply only to temporal life. It has nothing to do with eternal life.

“For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’

This is straight from God firsthand. But you say that it is an unbearable yoke. There is a contradiction here. Please address this contradiction.

Your comment was: "The law is an unbearable yoke."

This is a good paraphrase of Peter's words and meaning in verse 10 speaking to the issue of verse 5, not the oral law.

Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

How does this harmonize with the very Words of God Himself?

Do you think maybe that the "yoke" spoken of was the oral traditions of the fathers and NOT the Torah of God? Just maybe?

No read the text.

 

[listed]

We can all read and we all know that you used a synopsis of the verses and not actual quotes.

Once again, you have ignored the clear teaching from God Himself about the Torah. Any comment at all on Deut 30:11-12 and how it harmonizes with your interpretation of the Acts passage?

Nothing in the OT applies to Christians because we're not obliged to that covenant. We're under and celebrate the New Covenant of Luke 22:20.

 

[Trumpeter2]

Nothing in the OT applies to Christians because we're not obliged to that covenant. We're under and celebrate the New Covenant of Luke 22:20.

The Old Testament is The Father revealing Himself, while pointing to The Son. The New Testament is The Son revealing Himself while pointing to The Father, also fulfilling the Messianic prophecies of the Old Testament in Himself.

Therefore, to reject any part of
The Lord’s Word is to reject the whole...

 

[FreeAtLast]

The Old Testament is The Father revealing Himself, while pointing to The Son. The New Testament is The Son revealing Himself while pointing to The Father, also fulfilling the Messianic prophecies of the Old Testament in Himself.

Therefore, to reject any part of
The Lord’s Word is to reject the whole...

To reject Yeshua's New Covenant is to reject Yeshua and thus reject G-d's plan

Yeshua fulfilled, completed, the OLD Covenant Law and gave us His NEW Covenant, so those who know we are not under the Old Covenant are not rejecting any part of G-d's Word, in fact, we believe it and follow it wholly.

Can you say that you follow Yeshua's New Covenant, or the Old?

 

[Trumpeter2]

To reject Yeshua's New Covenant is to reject Yeshua and thus reject G-d's plan

Yeshua fulfilled, completed, the OLD Covenant Law and gave us His NEW Covenant, so those who know we are not under the Old Covenant are not rejecting any part of G-d's Word, in fact, we believe it and follow it wholly.

Can you say that you follow Yeshua's New Covenant, or the Old?

I reject none of God’s Word sister and I follow The Lamb of God.
God bless you.

 

[Bob S]

The Old Testament is The Father revealing Himself, while pointing to The Son. The New Testament is The Son revealing Himself while pointing to The Father, also fulfilling the Messianic prophecies of the Old Testament in Himself.

Therefore, to reject any part of
The Lord’s Word is to reject the whole...

God said to build a temple. Have you started one yet? God said to keep the feast days, new moons, wear tassels, send the women out..., return the land, not diminish from the Torah any of the commandments and, of course, do not cut your sideburns.

 

[FreeAtLast]

I reject none of God’s Word sister and I follow The Lamb of God.
God bless you.

And may He bless you as well Brother. Shalom.

 

[Trumpeter2]

God said to build a temple. Have you started one yet? God said to keep the feast days, new moons, wear tassels, send the women out..., return the land, not diminish from the Torah any of the commandments and, of course, do not cut your sideburns.

Only the laws found in ordinances have passed away, having been nailed to the cross with The Messiah, as the apostle, Paul, taught us. The Law of the Ten Commandments has become established, because of the freedom we now have from the Law by Messiah, who is also our Helper, giving us the strength and enabling us to keep the Law by the power of His Spirit. In our salvation and love has the Law now been written on our hearts, because of faith in God, who gave us the Law, and in our love for Him who fulfills the Law, YahuShua, being the same One who taught us the Law anew with greater meaning and understanding, opening our eyes to God’s wisdom and love.

 

[Dig4truth]

Nothing in the OT applies to Christians because we're not obliged to that covenant. We're under and celebrate the New Covenant of Luke 22:20.

Your argument is self refuting. The New Covenant IS in the Older Covenant.

 

[klutedavid]

You do know that is the same language that the Crusaders used as well as the Nazis, and anyone else who persecuted the Jews. "You are forbidden to follow your Law".

So, following your logic, then if you cannot follow the Law perfectly then you must not obey any of it. That is your point in case you don't recognize it unveiled.

And by the way, as it has been pointed out over and over here, there was a mixed multitude that left Egypt but all were joined to Israel. They were NOT all Jews. But they all were expected to obey God's instructions.

But apparently according to you God has changed. He no longer desires for His children to follow His teaching and instruction!

Hello Dig4truth.

Reading the posts when I noticed this.

They were NOT all Jews. But they all were expected to obey God's instructions.

Israel agreed to obey the words of that covenant (commandments), Israel was legally bound by this verbal agreement. I am not of Israel or Egypt, nor have I agreed to obey the words of that covenant.

 

[klutedavid]

Only the laws found in ordinances have passed away, having been nailed to the cross with The Messiah, as the apostle, Paul, taught us. The Law of the Ten Commandments has become established, because of the freedom we now have from the Law by Messiah, who is also our Helper, giving us the strength and enabling us to keep the Law by the power of His Spirit. In our salvation and love has the Law now been written on our hearts, because of faith in God, who gave us the Law, and in our love for Him who fulfills the Law, YahuShua, being the same One who taught us the Law anew with greater meaning and understanding, opening our eyes to God’s wisdom and love.

Hello Trumpeter2.

The Sabbath commandment is not a moral law, is that law written on the heart?

If only the ten commandments are valid, are you saying that witchcraft which is listed as an ordinance, is acceptable to practice?

Is it ok to afflict widows and orphans since that is an ordinance?

Is kidnapping people legal, because that is also an ordinance?

 

[Trumpeter2]

Hello Trumpeter2.

The Sabbath commandment is not a moral law, is that law written on the heart?

If only the ten commandments are valid, are you saying that witchcraft which is listed as an ordinance, is acceptable to practice?

Is it ok to afflict widows and orphans since that is an ordinance?

Is kidnapping people legal, because that is also an ordinance?

The Sabbath commandment is One of the ten and yes all ten have been written on our hearts.
All the things you list are covered by the Ten Commandments.
To the Jews, the Law was given as a rod by which to govern themselves and obey... The old covenant of outward obedience, which led them into sin because of man’s tendency to break the Law, continually stumbling over its foundation, proving man could not be saved of himself, but is in need of a Savior that only God could provide. We, as Followers of The Way, have entered into a better and greater covenant, no longer bound by the old covenant, which was outward obedience and manifest in the flesh by circumcision. We have entered into an inward spiritual covenant, the circumcision in our hearts, a freedom from sin by forgiveness, an everlasting atonement in the blood of The Messiah.

 

[klutedavid]

The Sabbath commandment is One of the ten and yes all ten have been written on our hearts.
All the things you list are covered by the Ten Commandments.
To the Jews, the Law was given as a rod by which to govern themselves and obey... The old covenant of outward obedience, which led them into sin because of man’s tendency to break the Law, continually stumbling over its foundation, proving man could not be saved of himself, but is in need of a Savior that only God could provide. We, as Followers of The Way, have entered into a better and greater covenant, no longer bound by the old covenant, which was outward obedience and manifest in the flesh by circumcision. We have entered into an inward spiritual covenant, the circumcision in our hearts, a freedom from sin by forgiveness, an everlasting atonement in the blood of The Messiah.

Hello trumpeter2.

If the ordinances are included in the ten commandments, then the entire law is still valid.

You can't say that witchcraft is a sin unless witchcraft is listed in the law.

Sin is lawlessness.

Unless the ordinances are valid law, then witchcraft can't be a sin, can't be lawlessness.