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Featured (Moved) The law. Is it done away with? Is it, really?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by Devin P, Sep 8, 2017.

  1. FreeAtLast

    FreeAtLast Messianic Jew

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    Actually, the Scriptures themselves call the Old Covenant Law of Moses as REPLACED, DEAD, COMPLETED and NON-BINDING in the life of a born again Believer.

    Acts
    The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)

    Romans
    The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)

    If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

    The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)

    The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)

    Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)

    Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)

    The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)

    The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10)

    The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)

    The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)

    1 Corinthians
    The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56)

    2 Corinthians
    The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7)

    The law is a ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:9)

    The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)

    The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11)

    Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. (2 Corinthians 3:14-15)

    Galatians
    The law justifies nobody. (Galatians 2:16)

    Christians are dead to the law. (Galatians 2:19)

    The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)

    To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”. (Galatians 3:1)

    The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)

    The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)

    The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13)

    The law functioned in God’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19, also see… Matthew 11:12-13, Luke 16:16)

    If the law worked God would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)

    The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23)

    The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24)

    Ephesians
    Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15)

    Philippians
    Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-8)

    1 Timothy
    The law is only good if used in the right context. (1 Timothy 1:8) (see next verse for the context)

    It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10)

    Hebrews
    The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19)

    God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7-8)

    It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13)

    It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1)


    Nope, doesn't apply. He did not CHANGE the Old Covenant Law of Moses, Yeshua ENDED AND COMPLETED its requirements by fulfilling them,

    I think you are getting confused on semantics. Yeshua did not go back in and made edits to it (that would mean change). He did not abolish, destroy it either, but He completed it, fulfilled it.

    Matthew 5:17 Read ALL of this verse, not just the word "law". He says "... and the prophets..." as well.

    Why is that important? Because Yeshua did not destroy the Prophets or change their prophecies, He FULFILLED the Messianic prophecies because HE IS the Messiah. This is the same as the fact that He FULFILLED the Old Covenant Law of Moses by meeting every single one of its requirements so that no more requirements are ever needed.

    If this were not so, you would be sacrificing animals today, as part of the Law of Moses. Yet, you don't. Why? Because you say you accept Yeshua's blood sacrifice for all sins. Yet, you still say the Law of Moses is in force. How can that be? It's ALL OR NOTHING. You cannot pick and choose what laws under the Old Covenant to obey. You cannot say you must observe Sabbath and reject the commands to sacrifice animals.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
  2. listed

    listed are you?

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    Tom any buttons so I just used the cover it all button like.
     
  3. ralliann

    ralliann christian

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    Firstly the Torah contains the history of several "testaments", not just one.
    secondly, the priesthood has changed, which brings a change in the law.
    Thirdly, The two principals above do not replace the earthly worldly people of Israel.
    So your comparison of light bulbs does not address the issue. It is a matter of two sources of light from different sockets altogether.
    If you all believe, the Levitical law is still intact in Christ then why aren't you teaching circumcision of the foreskin of the flesh. We all had better become Jew's in order to eat of the Passover.
     
  4. Dig4truth

    Dig4truth Newbie

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    But God is one. There cannot be two sources of light.
     
  5. Dig4truth

    Dig4truth Newbie

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    Deut 30:11-12 “For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’

    If the rest of your interpretations are as bad as the first then why should I bother?

    (The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10))

    In fact most of your interpretations place the blame on God's holy Torah and not on sin where it belongs. Sorry, but I'm not playing this game.
     
  6. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member

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    (CLV) Hb 1:9
    Thou lovest righteousness (kept THE LAW) and hatest injustice (disregard for THE LAW) ; Therefore Thou art anointed by The God, (ho theos) (YHWH), Thy God, with the oil of exultation beyond Thy partners."

    (CLV) 1Jn 3:9
    Everyone who is begotten of The God, (tou theou) (YHWH) is not doing sin, for His seed is remaining in him, and he can not be sinning, for he is begotten of The God (tou theou) (YHWH).

    (CLV) Mt 5:17
    "You should not infer that I came to demolish THE LAW or the prophets. I came not to demolish, but to fulfill.

    (CLV) Mt 5:18
    For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from THE LAW till all should be occurring.

    (CLV) Mt 5:19
    "Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens.

    (CLV) Lk 16:17
    Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of THE LAW to fall.

    (CLV) 1Jn 3:4
    Everyone who is doing sin, is doing LAWLESSNESS also, and sin is LAWLESSNESS.

    (CLV) Mt 24:12
    And, because of the multiplication of LAWLESSNESS, the love of many shall be cooling.

    (CLV) Mt 24:13
    Yet he who endures to the consummation, he shall be saved.

    (CLV) 1Jn 2:4
    He who is saying that I know him, and is not keeping his precepts, is a liar; and the truth of The God, (tou theou) (YHWH) is not in this one.

    (CLV) 1Jn 3:8
    Yet he who is doing sin is of the Adversary, for from the beginning is the Adversary sinning. For this, was the Son of The God (tou theou) (YHWH) manifested, that He should be annulling the acts of the Adversary.

    (CLV) Mt 23:28
    Thus you, also, outside, indeed, are appearing to men to be just, yet inside you are distended with hypocrisy and LAWLESSNESS.

    (CLV) Mt 7:21
    "Not everyone saying to Me `Lord! Lord!' will be entering into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who is doing the will of My Father Who is in the heavens.

    (CLV) Mt 7:22
    Many will be declaring to Me in that day, `Lord! Lord! Was it not in Your name that we prophesy, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many powerful deeds?'

    (CLV) Mt 7:23
    And then shall I be avowing to them that `I never knew you! Depart from Me, workers of LAWLESSNESS!'

    (CLV) Mt 13:41
    The Son of Mankind shall be dispatching His messengers, and they shall be culling out of His kingdom all the snares and those doing LAWLESSNESS,
     
  7. Dig4truth

    Dig4truth Newbie

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    Unfortunately the Bible Gateway doesn't have the CLV version.


    "Not everyone saying to Me `Lord! Lord!' will be entering into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who is doing the will of My Father Who is in the heavens.

    "The will of My Father", this doesn't seem to be in harmony with many that post on this thread. It is always the "will of the Son" as if they are two different wills.

    We know absolutely from Scripture that it cannot be two wills, but that's what is said quite often on this thread.

    Thanks for bringing such a wonderful arrangement of Scripture!
     
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  8. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member

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    You can download a Concordant Literal Version at Scripture4all.com.

    It's a very useful study tool.
    .
     
  9. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member

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    (CLV) Jn 5:30
    "I can not do anything of Myself. According as I am hearing am I judging; and My judging is just, for I am not seeking My will, but the will of Him Who sends Me.

    Yahshua was consistent in this message.
     
  10. Dig4truth

    Dig4truth Newbie

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    Thanks! I'll check it out.

    It just occured to me that I hear a lot on this thread that there is a division between the Jews and the Gentiles. The Jews have the law but the Gentiles don't.

    Didn't Yeshua come to make the two into one? Yes He did!

    So what's up with the "I'm not a part of Israel (God's people) but I'm a part of God's people? Or say it any way you like, it's all the same; Yeshua came to bring the two together and most here teach that there is a division.

    So, either we, the people of God live according to the Torah or we don't.

    Isreal, the people of God live according to the Torah as commanded by the Father. In the newness of Yeshua it is observed in spirit and truth.
     
  11. Dig4truth

    Dig4truth Newbie

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    Awesome and right on point!!!
     
  12. FreeAtLast

    FreeAtLast Messianic Jew

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    Umm, I posted straight Scripture, no interpretations. Read the Scriptures for yourself. Look at the wording in the Scriptures. If you disagree, take it up with G-d, HE wrote them, not me.

    Do you not believe Yeshua's New Covenant is G-d's Word (2 Timothy 3:16-17)?
    16 All Scripture is breathed out by G-d and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of G-d may be complete, equipped for every good work.

    Let's look at the one you chose:
    Acts 15:10
    10 Now, therefore, why are you putting G-d to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

    So, this says that the Old Covenant Law of Moses was an "unbearable yoke". Again, if you want to argue that, you'll have to take it up with G-d, He wrote it.

    As for you "bothering" or "playing games", hey, it's your choice, it makes no difference to me, but FYI, you can't blame anyone for what G-d wrote, just because you don't like it. Scripture is Scripture. You don't have to like it, but it's His Word.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
  13. FreeAtLast

    FreeAtLast Messianic Jew

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    Elohim is "us". Plural and One (echad). The Tri-unity of Elohim is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. All G-d. One G-d.
     
  14. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member

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    As I pointed out before to you (maybe you just missed it) There was no book called the New Testament when this verse was written.

    This verse is speaking of the Torah (including the LAW).
     
  15. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member

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    Elohim
    Hebrew god
    Written By:
    The Editors of Encyclopædia Britannica
    See Article History
    Alternative Title: Eloah
    150">


    Elohim, singular Eloah , (Hebrew: God), the God of Israel in the Old Testament. A plural of majesty, the term Elohim—though sometimes used for other deities, such as the Moabite god Chemosh, the Sidonian goddess Astarte, and also for other majestic beings such as angels, kings, judges (the Old Testament shofeṭim), and the Messiah—is usually employed in the Old Testament for the one and only God of Israel, whose personal name was revealed to Moses as YHWH, or Yahweh. When referring to Yahweh, elohim very often is accompanied by the article ha-, to mean, in combination, “the God,” and sometimes with a further identification Elohim ḥayyim, meaning “the living God.”

    Though Elohim is plural in form, it is understood in the singular sense. Thus, in Genesis the words, “In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth,” Elohim is monotheistic in connotation, though its grammatical structure seems polytheistic. The Israelites probably borrowed the Canaanite plural noun Elohim and made it singular in meaning in their cultic practices and theological reflections.

    Elohim | Hebrew god
     
  16. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Seems like you are mixed up between God's Law and the laws which are forever and the laws of Moses that were shadows pointing to Jesus.
     
  17. FreeAtLast

    FreeAtLast Messianic Jew

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    Nope. I did not "miss anything. I refuted it. :) Did you miss my reply? As I pointed out from history and the New Covenant, the acts and commands of the New Covenant were being written down as they happened and were compiled later. The commands of Yeshua, given at His sermon on the Mount AND when Yeshua stated that He was given the NEW Covenant, Luke 22:20, DID happen prior to these verses being written. However, according to the Scriptures, no way, no how is this referring to the OLD Covenant of Moses, it is referring to the entire Word of G-d from 1 Genesis to the end of Revelation.

    My reply is pasted below in case you missed it.

    Yeshua gave us His commands while He still lived. Read His Words. he was referring to His NEW Covenant that would be ushered in at His death, by His blood, thus fulfilling the entire Old Covenant Law of Moses. Read Jeremiah 31:31-34, Matthew 5 and Luke 22:20.

    This is proven by the NEW Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah which G-d reads:
    31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the L-rd, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the L-rd. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the L-rd: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their G-d, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the L-rd,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the L-rd. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

    G-d the Father stated clearly that this NEW Covenant, is not like the Old Covenant Law of Moses. So, it could not be the Law of Moses.

    After those days, refers to when Yeshua makes this NEW Covenant. (Luke 22:20)

    When G-d forgives our sin (only through Yeshua's blood)
    Writes Yeshua's New Covenant commands on our heart (only through the Ruach haKodesh)
    then we will be His people.

    It was not possible under the Law of Moses (read those verses I posted in a previous comment) that is why Yeshua had to come and die. The Law of Moses never saved anyone, that's why G-d sent Yeshua ha Mashiach.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
  18. FreeAtLast

    FreeAtLast Messianic Jew

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    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
  19. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member

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    .....and of course you can back up this bald assertion with a reputable scholarly source?
     
  20. ralliann

    ralliann christian

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    Are you serious? Did God not make LIGHTS? The lesser to rule the night and the greater to rule the day? One for a shadow, the other the reality. where do you come up with your rules?
     
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