(Moved) The law. Is it done away with? Is it, really?

[listed]

Life and death dangerious.

Now all you have to do is to show the difference between the Son and the Father. The different "laws" they have. Should be easy huh? Since that's all we get from you guys. Please, oh please show me the difference!

Show me how the Son is so unlike the Father especially in regard to the instructions (law).

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

John 10 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.


John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

 

[listed]

What components of the old covenant do you insist are found as part of the new covenant?


It does not matter what any human, including myself or yourself, insist.

What MATTERS IS; what does Scripture INSIST that YOU RESIST?


1 John 2:7
Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

Read the chapter for context. In it you will discover what beginning and commandment John is talking about. I already quoted John 13:34 for you.

More New Testament Testimony of Christ for you to ignore

Matthew 22:36
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said(TESTIFIED) unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

How do you arrive this is a command to observe the law?

IF THIS was abolished;

then we are free to hate God and men and be found righteous?

Ridiculous!

John 15:10 applies here.

 

[listed]

You really need to quit listening to religious people and read the Bible yourself for what is says. You need to read it until it becomes part of you.

bugkiller

Very good advice. Not reading the Scripture is a problem for the religious. It's also a reason preachers don't require Scripture reading.

 

[listed]

John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

If you do not believe Moses' words how will you believe Yeshua's words?

Who doesn't believe Moses?

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Rom 10:4 For the goal at which the Torah aims is the Messiah, who offers righteousness to everyone who trusts.

Oh how I wish you understood even this version you quote.

Acts 28:23 When they had set a day for Paul, they came to him at his lodging in large numbers; and he was explaining to them by solemnly testifying about the kingdom of God and trying to persuade them concerning Jesus, from both the Law of Moses and from the Prophets, from morning until evening.

But

Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

The Gospel?

Are these the things you really want to do away with?

Are you asking if I want to disregard the Law of Moses and the prophets or Jesus? I choose Jesus. You keep the law of Moses.

 

[Dig4truth]

You are the law expert. Surely you read the Book of the law and know full well what I am talking about. It really does not read like you know the Book of the law and you try and teach it. OY Vey!!!!

bugkiller

Oy vey, you made a claim and will not support it.

 

[Dig4truth]

Who doesn't believe Moses?

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.Oh how I wish you understood even this version you quote.But

Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?Are you asking if I want to disregard the Law of Moses and the prophets or Jesus? I choose Jesus. You keep the law of Moses.

Who ask you to disregard anything? Not I.
Hasn't Yeshua said to follow His Father's commands? Isn't that part of following Yeshua?

 

[Dig4truth]

Apparently the antinomians do not know what "being under the law" means. (Hint) It does not mean to obey the commands of God as a redeemed person.

What did Yeshua say? Obey the commands.
What did James say? Obey the commands.
What do we see in the last days as a description of God's people? Those who hold to the testimony of Yeshua and obey the commands.

This is a lot to ignore to hold to an antinomian viewpoint. But I guess there are no rules with antinomians.

 

[Dig4truth]

The reason is found right in the Book of the law. You sub in "people of God" for "Israel." This changes the Scripture meaning.

I hope that you're not suggesting that Israel is not the "people of God"!
I did not quote Scripture, I made the point that God would tell "His people" what He expected of them. And that is exactly what we see in Scripture.

 

[ralliann]

Who is persecuting anyone here, let alone the Jews. If you want to follow the law, more power to you. However most here aren't Jews obligated to the law. All you have done is raise a side issue to argue.No, not at all. The Christian isn't under that covenant. The Christian doesn't practice a life style of sin by not keeping the sabbath. People who sin are found in every church and synagogue.Bu-the-way Moses was repeated told to call the COI, not a mixed group of people. The covenant was made with the COI only. Read the Book of the Law.No, God changed (completely replaced) the covenant they continually broke. A covenant must be participated in by all concerned parties to be valid.

Hebrews tells us a covenant without an oath of swearing can be repented of. The first covenant made with Abraham was without an oath. And of course the priesthood of the law also without oath.

 

[ralliann]

I hope that you're not suggesting that Israel is not the "people of God"!
I did not quote Scripture, I made the point that God would tell "His people" what He expected of them. And that is exactly what we see in Scripture.

And he did....He sent John, a prophet of God. Did they listen???

He also sent Jesus, foretelling the destruction of the temple. Did they listen?

Mt 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Lu 3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Lu 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.



28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

 

[ralliann]

A more usual definition of what antinomianism is, is continuing in sin, that grace may abound (Romans 6.1).

Or refusing to repent, yet believing You will be blessed just the same?

The rulers in the generation which rejected Christ, refused to repent at the preaching of John.

Mt 21:25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
Mr 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Joh 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.


De 29:19 And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst:

 

[listed]

Apparently the antinomians do not know what "being under the law" means. (Hint) It does not mean to obey the commands of God as a redeemed person.

What did Yeshua say? Obey the commands.
What did James say? Obey the commands.
What do we see in the last days as a description of God's people? Those who hold to the testimony of Yeshua and obey the commands.

This is a lot to ignore to hold to an antinomian viewpoint. But I guess there are no rules with antinomians.

I disagree. You provide not even a reference. Why?

 

[listed]

I hope that you're not suggesting that Israel is not the "people of God"!
I did not quote Scripture, I made the point that God would tell "His people" what He expected of them. And that is exactly what we see in Scripture.

Where did suggest that?

 

[Dig4truth]

I disagree. You provide not even a reference. Why?

Because there has been no response to my inquirey.
Paul is hard to understand according to Scripture and unstable people use his teachings to distort the meaning.

This is why I asked and probably why I have not received an answer.

 

[Dig4truth]

Where did suggest that?

When you said, "The reason is found right in the Book of the law. You sub in "people of God" for "Israel." This changes the Scripture meaning."

If Israel is not the people of God then who is? Whom could I have substituted?
How does it change the scriptural meaning if the people of God are Israel?

Please explain.

 

[FreeAtLast]

Apparently the antinomians do not know what "being under the law" means. (Hint) It does not mean to obey the commands of God as a redeemed person.

What did Yeshua say? Obey the commands.
What did James say? Obey the commands.
What do we see in the last days as a description of God's people? Those who hold to the testimony of Yeshua and obey the commands.

This is a lot to ignore to hold to an antinomian viewpoint. But I guess there are no rules with antinomians.

Do you not know the definition of an antinomian?

The word antinomianism comes from two Greek words, anti, meaning "against"; and nomos, meaning "law." Antinomianism means “against the law.” Theologically, antinomianism is the belief that there are no moral laws God expects Christians to obey. Antinomianism takes a biblical teaching to an unbiblical conclusion. The biblical teaching is that Christians are not required to observe the Old Testament Law as a means of salvation. When Jesus Christ died on the cross, He fulfilled the Old Testament Law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15). The unbiblical conclusion is that there is no moral law God expects Christians to obey.

 

[Dig4truth]

Do you not know the definition of an antinomian?

The word antinomianism comes from two Greek words, anti, meaning "against"; and nomos, meaning "law." Antinomianism means “against the law.” Theologically, antinomianism is the belief that there are no moral laws God expects Christians to obey. Antinomianism takes a biblical teaching to an unbiblical conclusion. The biblical teaching is that Christians are not required to observe the Old Testament Law as a means of salvation. When Jesus Christ died on the cross, He fulfilled the Old Testament Law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15). The unbiblical conclusion is that there is no moral law God expects Christians to obey.

Of course I know what antinomian means. Have you not read some of the posts in this thread? If so then you could easily recognize some antinomian philosophy.

 

[FreeAtLast]

Of course I know what antinomian means. Have you not read some of the posts in this thread? If so then you could easily recognize some antinomian philosophy.

No, antinomians believe there is NO law. New Covenant Bible Believers (posters in this thread) believe that we are born again Believers are not required to observe the Old Covenant Law of Moses, but we ARE required to keep the NEW Covenant laws given.

So, calling these posters antinomians is unwarranted, unfair and untrue based on the definition above. Christians believe we are under Yeshua's New Covenant laws.

 

[Dig4truth]

No, antinomians believe there is NO law. New Covenant Bible Believers (posters in this thread) believe that we are born again Believers are not required to observe the Old Covenant Law of Moses, but we ARE required to keep the NEW Covenant laws given.

So, calling these posters antinomians is unwarranted, unfair and untrue based on the definition above. Christians believe we are under Yeshua's New Covenant laws.

Yes, I’ve heard that also. Can you list these commands? How many are there?

Are they different than the Father’s commands, and if so why?

Why would God need new commands for His people? Were the first ones not good enough? Has His standards changed?

 

[Bob S]

Just two Dig. You will find them in 1Jn3:23-24. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. Jn13:34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

How much does Jesus love us Dig? Well, He gave His life for us and we are to love others like He loves us. I challenge you to find a verse in the Old Testament that lists either of the commands found in 1Jn. this should settle the debate, but knowing the past history of the debaters I really wonder.

If we love others as Jesus loves us there is no sin imaginable that we would commit. Would you tell us that the 10 commandments contain all the sins man can do? There isn't even a command to love our neighbor in the 10 let alone giving our life for our neighbor.

There you have it. What you do with it is yours to decide.