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Featured Most Christians have no concept of what Heaven is really like

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by GirdYourLoins, Oct 15, 2020.

  1. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Correct. Yet the Gates of the City remain open and the spirit and the Bride call "Come" from within the city to all outside its gates who thirst, "come drink freely from the water of Life"...

    Correct, Evildoers are on the New Earth, Just outside the gates of the City.

    "But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie."

    "Practices" here is present tense, present at the time of existing outside the gates of the city.

    It's not people who used to practice, who once practiced, who formerly were practicing...
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
  2. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Well-Known Member

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    That sounds like an utterly terrible eternity. That sin and death still exist and life is confined to one city.
     
  3. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth Supporter

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    So sorry that this is the way you view it..

    Heaven will not be a "one size fits all"... In fact what God has in store for you is customized to what you will feel as paradise...

    Doubt if I can change your mind, but..... you cannot, in your finite brain, imagine what eternity will be like.
     
  4. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Agreed. And One of the Myriad reasons we know it's a metaphor.
     
  5. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    In Revelation 21:16, the angel measures the city with a golden rod or reed, and records it as 12,000 stadia by 12,000 stadia at the base, and 12,000 stadia high. A stadion is usually stated as 185 meters, or 607 feet, so the base has dimensions of about 2220 km by 2220 km, or 1380 miles by 1380 miles.
     
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  6. chad kincham

    chad kincham Well-Known Member

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    There will be nations full of mortal people on the earth, during the millennium and afterwards.

    See Zechariah 14, where Jesus returns and destroys the armies attacking Jerusalem, and God dwells forever in Jerusalem, and the nations come up into the city to worship God.
     
  7. chad kincham

    chad kincham Well-Known Member

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    We know it’s not a metaphor, because it gives specific measurements: length, width, height, materials used, the thickness of the walls, how many gates the city has, etc. - and we know that the 1500 mile high and long city is the place Jesus went to prepare for us, that contains many mansions (rooms).
     
  8. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Interesting... So in the Millennium, even the Unrepentant will share in Christ's Victory over Satan?

    And all males will be required to be physically circumcised and render Blood animal sacrifices directly at the feet of Jesus for atonement of their sins and acceptance by Him? - or is that part metaphor?
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
  9. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Well-Known Member

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    If it's customized to what I want, why are things that I want missing, and why is the main activity displayed in the bible something I don't like doing? That doesn't sound customized at all. That sounds like God is not a respecter of persons.
    Which I have to submit to.
    We're to deny ourselves to follow Christ, does that sound like seeking your own personal happiness for yourself?

    First off, what scripture do you have that says we get what we want customized for us? Cause I can't remember anything. If you use Psalm 37, well, I've already addressed that, it's not saying God becomes your wish granting Genie if you love Him, it says if you make the Lord the thing you desire the most then the Lord will give THAT to you, Himself. In otherwords, if you set your heart on the Lord AND something else.. you're not promised to get those something elses.
    Secondly, some people also take that to mean you just stare at Jesus and that fulfills every desire, and that's also been the thing, as in OP suggested, that you're simply so high (that's what it sounds like, a high) that you don't care about anything else except being high and shouting praise for the one who flipped on the "high" button in your brain.
    The "heaven is going to be whatever you want it to be" is just not supported by scripture imo
    and "in heaven there's so much glory and you'll be so happy just seeing God that you won't want anything else" just sounds like an eternal drug trip, not something I want, something that revokes free will and sober thinking.
    Glory simply doesn't interest me, not for myself. It's important to God so I have a duty to do what glorifies God... but for myself? It's nothing.
    Glory and power aren't even the aspects of God that hold any appeal to me. Instead what I value of God is love, compassion, mercy, goodness, and knowledge.
    God has the most of those qualities.. so.. that's what I desire of Him.
    If God lacked those qualities, but still had all the power and glory that He does? I wouldn't love Him. I'm not interested in serving an all powerful self absorbed jerk. Before I understood what Jesus did, I had no love for God. I'd been told about God and His laws and His wrath since before I started grade school, and I had no love for Him at all.
    If Jesus hadn't been healing the maimed, the blind, the lepers, and the possessed, I might not have love for Him. He showed compassion, He showed love laying down His life for many, He showed mercy, even in judging people for sin, He offered forgiveness, even to a prostitute.
    If the gospels were just Jesus preaching hellfire and brimstone and then being shown in glory on the mount of transfiguration, and walking on water, just judgement and glory and power? I'd still be agnostic.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
  10. chad kincham

    chad kincham Well-Known Member

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    They’re outside the city, in the lake of fire:

    Revelation 21:8 (KJV)

    8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
     
  11. chad kincham

    chad kincham Well-Known Member

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    Scripture states that no one has ever seen or heard or can even imagine the things God has for us... so speculation that comes from the very limited mortal experiences we have now, is useless.

    1Co 2:9 But as it is written, "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined the things that God has prepared for those who love him."
     
  12. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Well-Known Member

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    That's still a smaller world than we currently dwell in, and if we're tired of sin and death we'd be confined to a smaller space than this current planet. That's a very disappointing future.
     
  13. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    I believe in the omnipotence and omniscience of God I believe that God can make it happen.
     
  14. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Well-Known Member

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    Scripture also states things that won't be there, and a ting that will for sure be there. That's all I have to base off of and.. those things that I keep coming back to that won't be there (aside from sin and death) are disappointing to hear, as is the main activity displayed being singing.
    That's really all I have to go off of so no it doesn't sound like fullness of joy. Not for me. Maybe for you.
     
  15. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Well-Known Member

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    what do you mean make it happen, if you're believing that an end to sin and death only exists within a single city smaller than this current earth, that's disappointing compared to the scripture that treats it as if the entire new earth and in fact universe is now free of death and sin.
     
  16. RickReads

    RickReads Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for posting this. I have a hard time visualizing heaven though I think about it often. Real or not it was a good read.
     
  17. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth Supporter

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    So sorry that you feel this way..
     
  18. NerdGirl123

    NerdGirl123 If only we could be ourselves...

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    I think you and I are just interpreting things differently.

    Of course.

    Sure.

    I think it's certainly possible.
     
  19. NerdGirl123

    NerdGirl123 If only we could be ourselves...

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    I wouldn't know, I'm not a vegetarian, lol.
     
  20. NerdGirl123

    NerdGirl123 If only we could be ourselves...

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    "Without" or "outside" simply means they aren't in the Holy City. Which means they could be far away from it. Like in hell.
     
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