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Featured Most Christians have no concept of what Heaven is really like

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by GirdYourLoins, Oct 15, 2020.

  1. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Well-Known Member

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    Well, lakes don't have waves and tides like the oceans do, at least no lakes I've ever been to have tides and waves. never heard of anyone surfing in a freshwater lake. So they'd have to be large enough for the moon to pull on them enough to generate those currents.. to really count for what I'd say "this is fulfilling to me"

    But unless we're all getting our own planets, going to be hard to accomodate everyone's likes and dislikes.... and that's a little on the nose being very close to Mormon theology.. so I'm not gonna go that route. Jehovah has the authority to choose what new earth has and does not have, not me..
     
  2. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Yes He does. And if you are not going to be happy with what you get---you will get nothing! Can't imagine not being satisfied with what God has to offer! What I'm saying is we can not imagine what it will be like so why plan on being unhappy about it?!
     
  3. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Well-Known Member

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    Because scripture has pointed out specifics that I like that won't be there, and a specific that I don't like that is the main activity. People have different likes and dislikes, but scripture has told us a one size fits all.
    Like I said, imagine that the bible, every time heaven is shown, was a bunch of people washing dishes in front of the throne.
    or what if the bible, said it was 24/7/365 night time, and you're a morning person.
    Would you still feel like your likes and dislikes are being taken into account?
     
  4. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Yah well, you are apparently one that thinks on the bad side of things! I'd wait and see what the dishes looked like, esp. when talking about heaven, before getting depressed about it! It also says Jesus is making you a place in His Fathers' mansion, your own place, built by Christ. I have no doubt you are imagining all sorts of uglies. I am imagining all sorts of wonderful things, for He knows me and what I like and this is something just for me. It will be prefect.
     
  5. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Well-Known Member

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    I honestly wouldn't think that way, if I'd never read the bible. But I read, and, those verses stuck out like sore thumbs, so it's pretty hard for me to go back to a mindset of Jesus is going to customize eternity for your preferences.
    So what, you think that because I dislike singing that God is going to say "You don't have to sing, here, praise me on the loud cymbals instead" (to at least put Psalm 150 into frame, it's not that I dislike other people singing I just don't like the way that it feels when I sing myself)
    in my room, is it always going to be sunset on the beach?
     
  6. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    I think it means those who now, or before that time, practices those things. I don’t think it means there is people outside who continue in evil. But, this is only how I have understood it.
     
  7. GirdYourLoins

    GirdYourLoins Well-Known Member

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    Finally someone who has an understanding of heaven in line with my own. The physical aspects of heaven dont matter at all. You have described the essence of what it will mean to be in heaven. This is what its all about.
    And for the record, I think the worst thing about hell will be knowing what heaven is like but being separated from it. Its described as the place of wailing and gnashing of teeth. Being aware of the perfect love of God but being completely separated from it in a place of suffering and knowing you turned down the chance to make a choice to accept Jesus and be included will be the worst suffering in Hell. And knowing its eternal.
     
  8. GirdYourLoins

    GirdYourLoins Well-Known Member

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    You are still looking at heaven with a fleshly perspective imo. The physical aspects of heaven are insignificant to me. Its all about being in the perfect love of God, as the person said I replied to a minute ago
    "...all of our innate desire for happiness and well being are completely and totally quenched and satisfied by His Presence, by our meeting Him "face to face", 1 Cor 13. Unconditional love is experienced, is known, on an ineffable scale. And it's never-ending; God's sheer goodness has no limits, no bottom. As I once heard it put, "God is heaven".

    I would rather be in chains in prison knowing the full love of God than on a perfect beach separated from God. And its the presence of God, not the physical that makes it heaven.
     
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  9. IntriKate

    IntriKate Member

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    To feel Gods presence and talk to him face to face and to never feel fear or illness, loss and regrets will be wonderful.
     
  10. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Oh, for heavens sake! What a bunch of doom and gloom!! God has promised to give us the desires of our heart on this earth---He certainly has met all of mine---why would He not keep His promise on the new earth? Is anything impossible for God? If this is how you think, why would He give you anything seeing as you will be unhappy with whatever He gives you? It's that kind of thinking that'll end up with you standing out with the lost. As far as I'm concerned I would rather be a Janitor in the presence of God for Eternity, than a Queen on earth. You either want God or you don't. If God is not the ultimate goal---than you will not get Him! And we will be perfect---which means, you may sound like a frog now, but in heaven your voice will be perfect and you will be able to sing. If you have no joy in singing to God---you'll croak for the devil! :doh::doh:
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
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  11. Artorius Lacomus

    Artorius Lacomus New Member

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    I doubt ANY Christian, myself, yourself, and all others know what heaven is REALLY like. But in perspective, I haven't met any that were trying to prove themselves experts on the subject either
     
  12. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Well-Known Member

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    Ultimately that makes it not sound like perfection, but a tradeoff, you're choosing God over this world even though you permanently lose some things that you enjoyed, that's not fullness of joy if it's a tradeoff that's "better, but not perfect"
     
  13. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Well-Known Member

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    Well, I'm happy He's met all of your desires on this earth, but He has met none of mine. He has afflicted (or at the very least, let me be afflicted) with multiple sclerosis and psoriatic arthritis so bad that it has been disabling by itself and disfiguring. I've prayed for healing with the only answer being something along the lines of "my grace is sufficient" more times than I can count. I'm terribly lonely, being stuck at home doesn't exactly lend itself to making a lot of friends much less find a wife (not that I'm in any condition to be in a relationship with anyone), and when I've prayed for those things the only answer has been I'm MEANT to be alone. When God answers your prayers with "no", I'm to expect Him to answer "yes"?
    and it's not just being bad at singing that makes me dislike it, I'm bad at many things some of which I have a desire to get better at, but not singing, I just don't like the way it feels to sing.
     
  14. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    I am in hospice, with a bad heart, fibromyalgia, diabetes, borderline kidney failure, bursitis in both shoulders, developing cataracts, which if I do not die first, will lead to blindness, degenerative discs in lower back and neck and have been in a wheel chair for the past 13 years, my husband died 2 years ago, I had to give my beloved Husky away, (he has an excellent home now), I live alone, I am a survivor of colon cancer but it seems to be coming back, I have a lot of neuropathy pain in legs and hands---So what? i am the happiest I have ever been for I am the closest to God that I have ever been. The doctors do not care what I eat as anything I eat is going to be bad for something I have! I have been in hospice for over a year -- and no one expected me to survive one month! He has provided me with a forgivable loan of over 45,000 with the stipulation being I must live in this house for 5 years from the date of the loan, have 3 years to go. If I make it, the loan will not have to be paid back and my home is going to my church and 2 nieces. If I don't---oh well. My home is worth over $275,000. I have no complaints and I thank God and praise Him daily for all He has given, He even answered all my prayers for my dog. You sound like you'd complain if you were living in the Taj Mahal!! I am totally content with what I have! I do look forward to the day He returns and I see Him, and I can run away from this wheelchair!
     
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  15. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Well-Known Member

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    I had just gotten out of college and was looking for work when my disabilities began to hit me, so I'm saddled with debt I cannot pay back (and cannot get forgiveness because my disability is rated for 3 year medical evaluations rather than 5 or more), I don't have a home, I have never had anyone, not so much as a single woman not related telling me she loved me (and not like a "I love everyone cause it's the Christian thing to do"), I don't even have a pet because I'm too poor to take care of one and don't think I physically could. Reading the bible, some of those things that God has said "no" to me for, He continues to say "no" to forever. There's just not a lot for me to be thankful for, not for myself, I can only really truly be thankful for things that happen to others. I can be thankful that you had a husband (and that hopefully that he knew the Lord), that you have a home, that you survived cancer.
    for myself? I can thank Him that He's promised not to torture me forever, and that I'm not starving to death and that someone has let me live in their home, and that he directed me to serve my country when I was still young and healthy so that I at least have some form of health care when I need it. That's basically it. The less I have to be thankful for, the less joy I have in the one I'm to be thankful to.
     
  16. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    My husband was a total drunk and made my life a living hell for 28 years. He was in the hospital for 2 months before he died. In those 2 months, he came 6 times to the point of death and God delivered him each time. He came home for 2 days, and died in my arms. But not before he had given his heart to the Lord. And I am ever so grateful that God saved him all those times and that he kept me from leaving him all those years. Satan had him for 64 years---God and I get him for eternity. I had a previous husband for 8 years---he cheated on me and we ended up divorced, though we forgave each other and became closer than when we were married. He died at 61. (I seem to be hard on husbands!!)
    We are not tortured forever., maybe a lifetime---that is not forever---we get eternity forever if we hold on to God. Why would you let go of God during this hell on earth and end up loosing Him for eternity also!! Take what is given you with joy and gladness for you will have everything for eternity. It will all be worth whatever price we may have to pay on this earth. I'm afraid your attitude will end up with you getting nothing in the life beyond either. Surrender your heart for Him to change to one of joy and gratitude.
     
  17. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Well-Known Member

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    I already believe in Christ, I already know the Holy Spirit began a work in me. I already desire to serve Him, even if it doesn't make me happy. I expect to serve Him, I just don't expect every desire I have to be fulfilled, I expect to still miss out on things and just "make due". Heaven and the New Earth are not about me me me. They're about God and His glory.
    it's just that that alone does not give me fullness of joy.
     
  18. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    That is sad. I have joy now. In my condition, with my pain and my losses. You know of Jesus--you don't seem to have Him in your heart. I don't mean to be judgmental, but you are too unhappy to have Him in your heart. He just fills me with joy, no matter what my surroundings. You see, to God, it is all about you, you, you. That is why He died, to have you with Him. Just you, even if there had been no one else. Can you see no joy in that?
     
  19. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Well-Known Member

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    Some men of God had depression.
    Elijah wanted to die, He was taken into heaven in a rapture.
    David was practically bipolar. Rejoicing in God in 1 psalm and in agony the next. He was a man after God's own heart.
    Jesus Himself was a man of sorrows, acquainted with grief.

    and no, it's not about me me me. Otherwise Jesus wouldn't tell believers to deny themselves.

    in fact I want to say that, after I had a massive backslide and then got called to Him again, He intensified a desire for marriage and children that I did not have before. I desired sex rather than marriage before, and I wasn't interested in children at all. But now, anytime I see friends or family with their children it feels like a painful hole in myself that nothing fills. Jesus filled the hole that was my earthly father, he... was not a good father, he was an alcoholic and a convicted rapist.my mom divorced him, changed our names, and moved, after he went to prison and started sending threats of kidnapping me and my sister.
    Jesus fully replaced him. I forgive my father, but I do not think that he knew Christ (he died about 15 years ago or so). He tried to mingle in new age and eastern religions into what he taught me when I was young.. so I do not think things are well with him. But I have a better Father. There is no hole there.
    But for children.. a father is not a child. There's a hole, something missing.
    For a wife? a male Jesus is not a female spouse. There's a hole, something missing.
    Being touched by the spirit in my grief makes me tingle, there is reassurance but I want to be embraced physically. There's a hole, something missing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  20. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Yes, know about depression in biblical figures. But it is not a way of life, it is a temporary state. And I hope it is that for you. I had to battle it myself, for I often felt as though I was in a hole, almost like a bottomless pit and I could not climb out of it. It took work, I had to train my mind to praise and thank God every time I got that way. I felt it was a way that Satan wanted to control me. So I prayed that it would be taken from me. Over time, they totally left me and was replaced with praise and thanksgiving. It was not easy, nor quick. My father was a molester, my 1st pregnancy and abortion at the age of 12, 2 more where his, I had plenty to be sorrowful about my childhood. I was never able to have children after all that. We all have our sorrows, they must not be what defines us. Without those experiences, I would not have been able to help others through their trauma. At -69 and in my condition---there will be no more boyfriends or marriages!! And yes---I did have 2 men that loved me, and have 2 stepchildren from 1st marriage. As they say---those who can do, those who can't----
    reminisce! Besides, I have one gift God gave me that helped me through all this----I have a deep and weird sense of humor! I see humor in everything and I have a sarcastic streak a mile wide that has often gotten me into trouble, even on here with the mods! So, I hope your hole gets filled, or at least a cover thrown over the thing!
    I also grieve at times for my beloved husky, Bear. However, get this: I gave him up in June of last year---I cried for a week, every day, all day. I had sent a letter telling all about him and my phone number for whomever got him. I got a call 8 days after I gave him to the shelter. This lady is a Native American and she calls God her creator. In Jan of that year she had gotten a word from her creator that she was going to get another dog, (she already had 2) and his name would be Bear. She got a name tag and collar and leash and everything for him and started looking, she had seen him in her dream. When she saw my bear---that was it, she knew it was him. She took him home. And she has continued to update me with photos telling me about him. It has been more like we are sharing him. What a huge blessing. I had prayed he would have another dog, he got 2, I had prayed he would get a doggie door (very important) he got one. She had just been waiting for me to give him up. I need not have spent that horrible week crying my head off! If God cares for a dog---how much more us??
     
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