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Featured Most Christians have no concept of what Heaven is really like

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by GirdYourLoins, Oct 15, 2020.

  1. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Isaiah 64:4
    4 For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.
    1 Corinthians 2:9
    9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
     
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  2. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    How inspiring is that.
     
  3. Gary Lee

    Gary Lee New Member

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    "Everybody wants to go to heaven
    but,
    nobody wants to die".................
    [​IMG]
     

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  4. InnerPhyre

    InnerPhyre Well-Known Member

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    Literally no living human has any concept of what heaven is like.
     
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  5. SANTOSO

    SANTOSO Well-Known Member

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    This is also what we have heard about Heavens :
    Therefore, since we are SURROUNDED BY SO GREAT A CLOUD OF WITNESSES, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, -Hebrews 12:1

    Who are this cloud of witnesses ?

    And ALL THESE, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, -Hebrews 11:39
    since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect. -Hebrews 11:40

    We find all these people who are commended through their faith are this cloud of witnesses!
     
  6. SANTOSO

    SANTOSO Well-Known Member

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    Since we know that God is in the heavens, this is what we have heard :

    If a man does not repent, God will whet his sword; he has bent and readied his bow; -Psalms 7:12
    he has prepared for him his deadly weapons, making his arrows fiery shafts. -Psalms 7:13

    So you can find out that the Lord has prepared some deadly weapons IN THE HEAVENS, for those who doesn’t repent !
     
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  7. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth Supporter

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    Let's put it this way...

    God knows you better than you know yourself. He loves you more than you have ever loved someone. He wants for you to have joy beyond your imagination.

    To entertain thoughts that you will, in some way, be wanting, needing or missing anything in eternity.. is to not understand eternity.

    On this earth we have baggage. Things like the concepts we learned from our parents and the way we were raised, the neighborhood we grew up in, the way we looked and the way others treated us, the things we found enjoyable, the way our mind processed things, how intelligent we were.... the people that hurt us, lied to us, used us....

    All these things cause us to think the way we do and played the role of the biggest influence on the decisions we made.

    We are, in the end.. the end result of our thoughts and decisions... based on the life we lived and all the factors that influenced it.

    In eternity.. all these will be wiped free of wrongs... Truth will prevail and we will see things the way God intended.

    There will be no pain or sorrow.. No hate or ridicule.. No reason for bitterness.

    I think you can count on being so full of love and acceptance for others and from others to you and from your creator to you.. that there will be no room for any of the earthly emotions and baggage.
     
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  8. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth Supporter

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    Actually, that is God's design. Our will to live is healthy... We should not want to die.

    Even though I am congnitively aware of the fact that heaven is wonderful beyond my wildest imagination.... I still have the will to live and will fight for the life that is in my body.

    My father, lived a healthy life until he was 91 years old.. Still with a strong will to live. He full well knew that eternity was going to be wonderful.. yet lived each day like he was going to live to be 100 and fought for it.

    Until cancer got it's hooks in him. To see a man that healthy lose his health so fast. To see how frail he became. A once strong man wilted by this disease...

    Yet, even when he was in his last days.. He fought. We had to actually tell him that it was OK to go.

    Angels came to take him once. He told them that he couldn't go yet.. They said "OK but we'll be back"..

    We told him that when they come again.. go.....

    Even in his weakened state and knowledge of the heavenly wonders.. He still was fighting.
     
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  9. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    I entered the military long ago with an idea of what I wanted to do. I was intent on that desire. I'd held that desire for a long time. I was intent on that desire.

    I got put into something significantly different, something I had no idea existed. Even when initially told what it was, it was so far out of my ken that I couldn't understand what it would be.

    Eventually I realized I enjoyed the field I was placed in. And looking back on both things now--what I wanted and what I wound up doing--I realize that my years were far more fruitful both for the military and for me doing what I got than they would have been doing what I wanted.

    Now of course, the military is just part of a broken natural world, so I was blessed while many others weren't.

    But it does demonstrate to me that my concepts of what I want aren't necessarily best for me in the long run. It certainly opens up the "possibility" that God can have something in mind for me that's far better in the eternal run than anything I can think of for myself.
     
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  10. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    I fear dying, not death.

    Ideally, I'd prefer to go out like Moses, able and vital until the end and one day simply "turn off."
     
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  11. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    Most Christians have no concept what it means to live for Christ and not themselves !

    the reality most live for themselves and not the Lord so my question is why would the same people want to be in heaven with the Lord when they do not live for Him here ?

    its the fear of death, judgment and hell an escape, a free meal ticket out to just " accept Jesus" then continue to live for themselves.

    the disciples sure didn't fear death they looked forward to dying for the sake of the gospel and counted all things lost for Christ. to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Paul desired greatly to be with the Lord and was tortured like Jesus was beaten numerous times and thrown into prison.

    Paul writes this facing death after his brutal beating

    Philippians 1:20-26
    I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death. 21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24 but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. 25 Convinced of this, I know that I will remain, and I will continue with all of you for your progress and joy in the faith, 26 so that through my being with you again your boasting in Christ Jesus will abound on account of me.

    2 Corinthians 11:23-29
    I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again. 24 Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was pelted with stones, three times I was shipwrecked, I spent a night and a day in the open sea, 26 I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my fellow Jews, in danger from Gentiles; in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea; and in danger from false believers. 27 I have labored and toiled and have often gone without sleep; I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked. 28 Besides everything else, I face daily the pressure of my concern for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I do not feel weak? Who is led into sin, and I do not inwardly burn?

    hope this helps !!!
     
  12. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    Paul's thorn in the flesh was a messenger (angel) of Satan, and came from Satan not God.
     
  13. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    Mmmm.
    I'm sure our earthly departure would be be more fun in a chariot of fire like Elijah.
     
  14. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    2 Corinthians 12:7 had the line “there was given to me” so you can interpret as either from God or satan but it was definitely linked to the revelations Paul had about the 3rd heaven.

    And the famous prayer Paul made to God, you can infer that God had the power to remove that messenger but he chose not to
     
  15. GirdYourLoins

    GirdYourLoins Well-Known Member

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    I didnt actually say we spend eternity in heaven, you have added that. Rev1 says "I saw a new heaven and a new earth", it doesnt say there isnt a heaven.
     
  16. Semper-Fi

    Semper-Fi Well-Known Member

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    For precept must be upon precept, precept ..;
    [here a little, and there a little] (Isaiah 28:10-13

    "Thy Kingdom come"

    The living Christ is coming as “King of kings
    and Lord of lords” (Revelation 19:11-21),
    to put down the rebellion of warring nations.
    (Revelation 17:14), and establish God’s
    world-ruling government over all nations.
    (Daniel 2:44; 7:9, 13-14, 18, 22, 27; Isaiah 9:7)

    He went away (to heaven) to be coronated,
    and to return to Earth (Luke 19:12-27).
    He will then be on the Earth—Zechariah 14:3-4,
    1 Thessalonians 4:16 (Nahum 1:5)

    “We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty,
    which art, and wast, [and art to come]; because
    thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and
    hast reigned” , (Revelation 11:17)

    -The seventh angel sounds- The Kingdoms
    of this current world are to become Christs.
    (Revelation 11:15)

    -The nations will be angry at His coming
    (Revelation 11:15 with Revelation 11:18),
    and the military forces will actually attempt
    to fight to destroy Him! (Revelation 17:14).
    -today’s cities will be mostly destroyed
    (eg. Ezekiel 6:6; Ezekiel 12:20)

    -Will commit thy government into his hand, es-
    tablished with judgement and justice(Isa 22:21)
    -Of the increase of his government and peace
    there shall be no end, upon the throne of David,
    and upon his kingdom,...(Isaiah 9:7)

    A vision of the Beginning of that rule and world
    government “And I saw thrones, and they sat
    upon them, and judgment was given unto them…
    and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand
    years” (Revelation 20:4).(Isaiah 11:2-4)

    And before him shall be gathered all nations:
    and he shall separate them one from another,..
    (Matthew 25:32)
    -
    Jesus said:“And he that overcometh, and keepeth
    my works unto the end, to him will I give power
    over the nations: And he shall rule them with a
    rod of iron” (Revelation 2:26-27).

    And again, “To him that overcometh will I
    grant to sit with me in my throne [on this Earth]”
    (Revelation 3:21; Luke 1:32-33). And, “…we
    shall reign on the earth” (Revelation 5:10).

    And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my
    Father hath appointed unto me;(Luke 22:29)
    Some resurrected saints will rule over 10 cities,
    some over five. The parables of the pounds
    (Luke 19:11-27) and talents (Matthew 25:14-30)

    -A nation will be born at once (Isaiah 66:8)
    Saints shall take the kingdom, and possess
    the kingdom for ever, (Daniel 7:18)
    We shall inherit the earth. (Psalms 25:13-
    22:26, 37:9, 22,29) not being flesh and blood.

    At the return of Christ, there will be nations
    of mortal humans, but the Saints will be immortal

    -God chose Jerusalem (1 Kings 8:53) and
    shall choose Jerusalem again (Zechariah 2:12)
    -Christ, himself, will be ruling from
    Jerusalem, King over all the earth.

    -King David, will be king, under Moses, over
    all twelve nations of Israel (Jeremiah 30:9;
    Ezekiel 34:23-24; Ezekiel 37:24-25).

    -The original twelve apostles will be king, under
    David, over one of these nations Matthew 19:28

    "It was round about eighteen thousand
    measures: and the name of the city from that
    day shall be, The Lord is there. (Ezekiel 48:35)

    "At that time they shall call Jerusalem the
    throne of the Lord; and all the nations shall
    be gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord,
    to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any
    more after the imagination of their evil heart.
    (Jeremiah 3:17)

    "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the
    temple of my God, and he shall go no more out:

    and I will write upon him the name of my God,
    and the name of the city of my God, which is
    new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of
    heaven from my God: and I will write upon
    him my new name. (Revelation 3:12)

    And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness,
    and [all kings thy glory]: and thou shalt
    be called by a new name, which the mouth
    of the Lord shall name. (Isaiah 62:2)

    -Jerusalem, the future headquarters
    city of the Earth (Haggai 2:6-8).
    -Land Beneath Sea Reclaimed, converted
    to Jerusalem (Isaiah 60:5, Isaiah 11:15).
    -Gods latter house shall be greater
    than of the former (Haggai 2:9).

    "And he shall set up an ensign for the nations,
    and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel,
    and gather together the dispersed of Judah
    from the four corners of the earth. (Isaiah 11:12

    the Lord will have mercy on Jacob (Isaiah 14:1)
    -Israel mine inheritance. (Isaiah 19:25),
    (Psalms 79:1), (Job 31:2) (Psalms 127:3,
    (1 Kings 8:51,53, (1 Kings 11:13,(Psalms 33:12)
    (Psalms 74:2), (Deuteronomy 4:20,

    Jacob is the lot of his inheritance-Deuteronomy 32:9, Israel
    is the rod of his inheritance-Jeremiah 10:16 ,
    Jeremiah 51:1, -will take his inheritance in
    the sight of the heathen. Ezekiel 22:16

    -Joel 3:10 will be reversed, “All nations .. shall
    beat their swords into plowshares, and their
    spears into pruninghooks ….” (Isaiah 2:2-4

    -Desolate land shall be tilled - will be
    like the garden of Eden (Ezekiel 36:34-35)

    -The repairer of the breach, The restorer
    of paths to dwell in. (Isaiah 58:12)
    -Repair the waste cities, the desolations
    of many generations” (Isaiah 61:4).
    -Build the waste cities-fresh produce-drink
    there own wine-farming (Amos 9:14)

    -Waste cities “filled with flocks of men”
    being very social (Ezekiel 36:36-38)
    -Superhighways between major cities
    (Isaiah 19:23)

    -Cities being crime-free , dwell safely-none
    be made afraid (Ezekiel 34:28), (Micah 4:4)
    -No more Violence, nor wasting,
    nor destruction (Isaiah 60:18)

    -Cities overflow with prosperity (Zechariah 1:17)
    -Equitable property distribution, every man shall
    own his vine and fig tree (Micah 4:4, Leviticus 25

    -“Joy and gladness-thanksgiving-the voice
    of melody. (Isaiah 51:3) (Jeremiah 33:10-11)
    -Where old men and old women dwell -full
    of boys and girls playing (Zechariah 8:4-5)

    -No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous
    beast shall go up. (Isaiah 35:9 )
    -There will be Shepherds and local
    animal husbandry (Jeremiah 33:12)

    -Pure Water—Fertile Deserts where
    trees grow (Isaiah 35) the Dead Sea’s
    “waters shall be healed” Ezekiel 47
    Fishermen will line the banks catching fish.

    -No more hunger-He will raise up a plant
    of renown for food. (Ezekiel 34:29)

    -A new sharp threshing instrument -the
    mountains made small (Isaiah 41:14-16)
    -If any thrist and seek water, the God of
    Israel will not forsake them. Isaiah 41:17-18

    Trees planted and growing-consider and
    understand that the Eternal hath done this,
    and [the Holy One of Israel] hath created it” .
    (Isaiah 41:19-20)

    --All will speak the same language, a pure
    language from God (Zephaniah 3:9).
    God will also destroy the idols (Ezekiel 30:13
    (Micah 5:10-15), (Zechariah 13:2)
    no more worship the workof thine hands.

    The [Eternal] is our lawgiver (Isaiah 33:21)
    God’s law and the Word of the Eternal shall go
    forth from Zion, spreading over the whole Earth
    (Isaiah 2:3). God’s Holy Spirit shall flow out
    from Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:8).

    “And many nations shall come(Isaiah 2:3,Micah 4:2
    They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy moun-
    tain, the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the
    Lord, as the waters cover the sea. (Isaiah 11:9)

    "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord,
    every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue
    shall confess to God. (Romans 14:11)

    The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they
    break forth into singing. (Isaiah 14:7) All the
    earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto
    thee; they shall sing to thy name. (Psalms 66:4

    -God has spoken it, and He is not one
    to go back on His word (Isaiah 55:11)
     
  17. chad kincham

    chad kincham Well-Known Member

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    But it does say, if you’d read the two scripture chapters I cited, that God and Jesus will dwell with His people, for eternity, on earth, in Jerusalem in the future.
     
  18. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    In the new Jerusalem there is none of those who do evil. Evil is outside as said in that scripture. And I don’t think it means they are still practicing evil. I believe they are outside and die.
     
  19. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Well-Known Member

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    I still think I will be missing out on things that are good. That's not fullness of joy if you're missing things, and the fact that it is a guaranteed missing out on those things for eternity, that precisely makes it more painful, if it was temporary, that'd be easy. I know that while my disabilities limit me now and cause me pain now, that will be gone. The only things that they concern me as far as eternity goes is that I can do less for the Lord in this life because of my physical limitations, so my life matters less and there seems to be less purpose for all this pain because I can't find a way to use it to God's glory. That and, because it means I miss out on some things that are only possible on this earth and are not available in eternity. That hurts to be told "you want this? well you will never ever have it".
    That and for a God who knows everyone better than they know themselves, it sure does seem like it's a one size fits all solution, fall on your face and sing for pleasure. If you don't like singing? If the LAST thing you'd do to express joy is sing?
     
  20. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Well-Known Member

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    You have to think about what heaven actually is by definition and the real definition is heaven is where God the Father is, His dwelling place. Someday it'll be on the new earth, so.. that becomes Heaven by definition. So I don't see a problem with saying people spend eternity in heaven, as long as they have a proper idea of what heaven really is. If they think we'll be disincorporated spirits in some ethreal spiritual floaty place, then no.
    But as long as they understand the resurrection of the body and that there's a new earth where God dwells with His people, then it's fine if they call that Heaven.
     
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