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Featured MORE RAPTURE QUESTIONS

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by WailingWall, Jun 24, 2017.

  1. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    Keras,

    1. If you look at the 7 churches of Asia in Revelation 2-3, there is one church of overcomers that misses the hour of tribulation that comes over all the earth to try them that dwell on earth and that is the city of brotherly love, Philadelphia.
    This church will be raptured.
    I do believe the denominational church will go apostate and will be in the tribulation.

    2. What specific scripture says that there are only 2 tribes represent all of Israel God's Jewish people?

    3. Christians will have an amazing future. We have a great life now but it doesn't mean there is no chaos happening around us.
    The tribulation happens for a specific reason which deals mainly with the KoH program with Israel anthe KoH reign coming to fruition and the 1000 year reign which will be a kingdom of peace but sin and rebellion still has to be put down as well as God's enemies before the GWTJ and the New Heaven and the New Earth. This is Bible truth. Jerry kelso
     
  2. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The text does not say the hour of tribulation in any of the following translations.
    You are changing the text to make your doctrine work.
    Most translations use the word "trial".


    What happens at the end of a trial? The Judgment

    Revelation 3:10

    (CJB)  Because you did obey my message about persevering, I will keep you from the time of trial coming upon the whole world to put the people living on earth to the test.

    (ESV)  Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

    (Geneva)  Because thou hast kept the woorde of my patience, therefore I wil deliuer thee from the houre of tentation, which will come vpon all the world, to trie them that dwell vpon the earth.

    (GW)  Because you have obeyed my command to endure, I will keep you safe during the time of testing which is coming to the whole world to test those living on earth.

    (LITV-TSP)  Because you kept the word of My patience, I also will keep you out of the hour of trial which is going to come on all the habitable world in order to try those dwelling on the earth.

    (KJV)  Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

    (KJV+)  BecauseG3754 thou hast keptG5083 theG3588 wordG3056 of myG3450 patience,G5281 I alsoG2504 will keepG5083 theeG4571 fromG1537 theG3588 hourG5610 of temptation,G3986 which shallG3195 comeG2064 uponG1909 allG3650 theG3588 world,G3625 to tryG3985 themG3588 that dwellG2730 uponG1909 theG3588 earth.G1093

    (NKJV)  Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

    (YLT)  'Because thou didst keep the word of my endurance, I also will keep thee from the hour of the trial that is about to come upon all the world, to try those dwelling upon the earth.


    What is this hour to come?

    Joh 5:27  And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 

    Joh 5:28  Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 

    Joh 5:29  And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. 


    Joh 5:30  I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
     


    When does it occur?


    Rev 11:15  And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 
    Rev 11:16  And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 
    Rev 11:17  Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 
    Rev 11:18  And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 

    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
  3. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    There does not have to be this 'rapture' idea to preserve His people from troubled times.
    Israel was preserved in the earth while the plaques struck the egyptians.
    Pretty much true that nominal believers will likely scoff at the promise of His coming because the Lord delays His return. Christ and the apostles warn us to always be watching and waiting and believing in Christ and His eventual return. This servant dismally failed. That the Lord delays and delays His return when many would have already expected His return is reminded to us in the sixth bowl judgement in Revelations 16:15

    Luke 12:44-46New King James Version (NKJV)
    44 Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has.45 But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

    Revelation 16, still no rapture, and we are on the 6th bowl judgement. Christ is coming at an hour when you do not expect, as most expected Christ should have already come long before this as in a pre trib rapture teaching, which is a fake.


    Sixth Bowl: Euphrates Dried Up
    12 Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs comingout of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

    15 “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.

    16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.
     
  4. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    s.downey717,

    I never said there has to be a rapture even though God gives reasons and shows through the scripture that there will be one.
    I have always said that the accusation of escapism just to get away is not what the Bible says; Occupy til I Come. Right now we are ready to be martyred if it comes to that.

    2. There are many examples of God helping through Tribulation. I even wrote a song about it called the Miracle of Faith. Sometimes we have to go through tribulations and not necessarily have God take it a at instantly.

    3. Enoch was translated to Heaven before the flood as a type of the rapture.
    Enoch also prophesied that the Lord would come out of Heaven on the Day of the Lord with tens of thousands of his saints to fight at Armageddon.

    4. Revelation 3 shows the Philadelphian church overcomes will miss the hour of tribulation that will come upon the face of the those that dwell on the earth.
    Revelation 1:19 is the time factor for Revelation. What John saw was the vision of the churches and the messengers to the 7 churches of Asia.
    Things that are were those churches in John's day and their conditions and warning and encouragement to be overcomers.
    The things hereafter will be the tribulation which is after the church age for Revelation is also a prophecy.

    5. Scoffers will scoff at the promise of his coming. This will be much from the gospel of the Kingdom message Matthew 24:14
    by the Jews preached to the whole world for a witness. They will be saying Christ is coming to take the Kingdoms of the world away which will happen at Armageddon Revelation 11:15.

    6. The Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night 2 Thessalonians 5:2.
    Matthew 24:37:42 shows that the Day of the Lord will be like the days of Noah where everyone is eating and drinking and carousing etc.
    The two in the field; one taken, one left. You want to be the one left cause you will be alive.
    The same with two women grinding at the mill. You want to be the one left not taken.
    Matthew 24:43 is about the Goodman of the house that should have been ready so the thief wouldn't have broken up his house.
    These are taking about faithful and wise servants whom the Lord made him ruler over his household.
    The evil servant will say the Lord delayeth his coming. That servant will smite other fellow servants etc. and the Lord will come unexpectedly and cut him asunder.
    So if you are trying to make Revelation 16:15 as the church being in the tribulation to the end you are wrong. The church comes out of Heaven with Christ on the Day of the Lord.
    Luke 12:44-46 is the same as Matthew.
    Matthew 25 also shows individuals and the sheep and goat nations will be separated and some will go into the earthly kingdom and the goats go to everlasting hell.
    So Revelation 16:15 has nothing to do with the church going through the tribulation.
    Sorry, but you are wrong! Jerry kelso
     
  5. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Your style and way of posting make it difficult to keep track of all your trying to say. Now it seems you think there may not be a rapture to heaven, a sensible thought for a change, as that idea is not Biblical.

    Your statement above has been refuted, but you continue to post it as factual.
    Matthew 16:27 and Revelation 19:14 are quite clear: Jesus returns accompanied by His angelic army.
    The other scriptures that describe His Return; say 'hagios', usually translated as 'holy ones', or more correctly as 'angels'. Correctly as 'angels', as the 2 prophesies I quote are definitive statements and to say the other ones mean 'church people', is to create a Biblical anomaly, a scriptural conflict, which is impossible.
    If you say the Church Returns with Jesus, then you MUST provide proof that the Church is raptured to heaven first. We are all fed up with your dancing around this issue and your false accusations against all who post proofs of what will actually happen.
     
  6. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    keras,

    1. You are the one not being truthful.
    You gave those two scriptures but didn't say nothing about the scriptures I gave.
    You are just as one sided as most those who have tunnel vision.

    2. The reason you can't keep up is because all you can understand is your own position.
    I don't know where you think I don't believe there is a rapture.
    I have said it doesn't matter if we are raptured or not we are to occupy till Christ comes and Israel will still receive their gifts and callings.

    3. Enoch was translated to Heaven before the flood as a type of rapture.
    The same Enoch prophesied in Jude 1:14-15;
    And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
    To execute judgement upon all and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
    Revelation 19:8 FINE LINEN CLEAN AND WHITE IS THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF SAINTS!
    Verse 11 is the departure out of Heaven by Christ and his armies verse 14: AND THE ARMIES WHICH WERE IN HEAVEN FOLLOWED HIM UPON WHITE HORSES, CLOTHED IN FINE LINEN, WHITE AND CLEAN!
    Revelation 19:15-21 is the Battle of Armageddon.

    4. Matthew 16:27; says with his angels. So what? I never disagreed with angels being there but their will also be saints.
    Zechariah 14:5 says saints. Mark 8:38 says holy angels.
    Revelation 19:14 says nothing about angels and the description of clean and white is the fine linen of the saints righteousness. This agrees with verse 8. So you are either blind or you can't comprehend easy plain statements. Which is it?

    5. I have already shown you the scriptures for the church being in Heaven before, during, and at the end until they come out of Heaven in Revelation 19:11.
    I don't recall you rebutting the scriptures I gave. All you did was disagree. Anybody can disagree or give half of one side like you have with your angel only theory.

    6. The Philadelphian church will not go through the hour of temptation that will come on all the world to try those that dwell upon the earth.

    7. Revelation 1:19 is the time factor for Revelation. Things John saw was the vision of Christ in the middle of the candlesticks.
    Things that are werethe churches of Asia and their conditions in John's day.
    Things hereafter was after the church because Revelation is a prophesy and I have already explained the Philadelphian church and not having to go through the tribulation.
    Revelation 4:1, John is taken up to Heaven through a portal. He was told to, come up hither no he would be shown things thereafter. After what? The church that has been raptured for they are in Heaven represented by the 24 elders who are clothed in white raiment which is for saints.
    Revelation 5:9-10 sing a song of redemption and how they will reign upon the earth and they were out of every kindred, tongue, and people and nations. 2 Timothy 2:12 says we are being trained to rule and reign right now through our sufferings.
    The church is in Heaven before the tribulation.
    Revelation 11:18 has the saints and prophets receiving rewards. This happens in Heaven for the church is in Heaven. The rewards are recorded in 1 Corinthians 3:12-15. This happens in the middle of the tribulation and no later than the Marriage of the Lamb which is in Heaven right before they come out of Heaven to go to Armageddon Revelation 19:7-10; 11-21.
    Now give your man made interpretation instead of just disagreeing and trying to give your scriptures of which I have already debunked like your angel only myth. Jerry kelso
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
  7. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    Everyone who dies in the Lord Jesus, goes into heaven to be with the Lord. They are awake and alive and that is where they are right now, in heaven, Paul the Apostle is in heaven. The church people who died are in heaven.

    When He returns He brings them with Him. We get the resurrection of those who have fallen asleep = physically died.

    We who are left alive till the coming of the Lord are caught up into the air to be with the LORD and we are all transformed at that moment getting glorified bodies. It is going to be instantaneous, in a moment, twinkling of an eye, God does not waste time.
     
  8. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    >>>1 what does Jesus not knowing that his prophecy would be fulfilled in 70 A.D. got to do with the price of eggs in China?<<<
    What portion have you in Christ, as a sower of tares?

    >>>2. Yes they were cursed by the law because they rejected Jesus as Messiah.<<<
    The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of prophecy. JESUS prophesied: "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name (an imposter, un usurper, a false messiah), him ye will receive. (John 5:43)

    >>>3. 1948 came because bring Israel back into the prophetic picture and the Kingdom covenants to eventually come to pass.<<<
    The return of Israel to its land after 1.878 years of exile in fulfilmment all kind of plagues written by Moses in Deut. 28:15to68, it occurred to be fulfilled Scriptures about the birth and manifestation of the false messiah of the Jews, they are waiting their messiah along the time, not JESUS, Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. For this cause God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie, that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    >>>4. Jewish antichrist is a view but is debatable. <<<
    Well, what matters is who is speaking the truth.

    >>>Jeremiah 8:3-7; doesn't pinpoint the Antichrist coming from this family. The Antichrist will be possessed of Satan and Satan will give his seat, power and authority to him Revelation 13:2. <<<
    What you are sowing is tares, tares of Devil. What will fulfil is what was spoken and prophesied by the Apostle Paul and also is expressed in Rev. 13. There will be TWO BEATS in the Earth in the days ahead. The very ancient BEAST of Vatican City, the Pope, which rose up out of the sea Rev.13:1-10 (ie. arised among the Gentile nations, precisely in Italy-Rome), and a NEW BEAST much much more powerful than the ancient BEAST, the Pope, which will rise yet out of the earth in the days ahead (Rev.13:11-18), this new BEAST has two horns like a lamb, BTW a satanic imitation of JESUS, he will manifest himself as a messiah, Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth (the love of JESUS), that they might be saved, and the Jews will receive this BEAST as a messiah, they are waiting their messiah, not JESUS, (btw they preferred Barabbas, not JESUS) for this cause, I repeat, God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth (believed not in JESUS), but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    These TWO BEASTS, one Gentile BEAST, placed in the Vatican City, and another BEAST, a JEWISH BEAST, placed in Jerusalem, which spirituallly is called Egypt and Sodom (Rev.11:8), (iron mixed with clay-Dan.2:41-43) both BEASTS will make a treat and will build a divided kingdom, Catholicism and Judaism, to build an Universal religious KINGDOM, the FIRST 42 months will be ruled by the BEAST of the Gentiles, the Pope (Rev.13:v.5), placed in the Vatican City, helped by the powerful and ruthless false messiah, which exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the FIRST beast, the Pope. Ending the first 42 months, the RUTHLESS FALSE MESSIAH of the Jews, AN IMPOSTER, AN USURPER, the 666, will assume the government of the BESTIAL universal KINGDOM established by these TWO BEASTS of Apocalypse (Rev.13:1-18), there will be persecution against the true believers (the false believers will be cast into the hell's fire, together with the followers of the two satanic BEASTS (Rev.13:14-17), when the Lord JESUS be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking VENGEANCE on them that know not God, and that obey not His Gospel, who will be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power, when he comes to be glorified in His saints (the true believers).

    >>>5. Final and eternal punishment of Israel in 2 Thessalonians 2:6-9-12? This doesn't pinpoint Israel. <<<
    What you are saying is preached by the spirit of lie, the spirit of darkness, the son of perdition, the man of sin, is a Jew, the ruthless false messiah of the Jews, an imposter, an usurper (John 5:43), whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders (Rev. 13:11-18).

    >>>6. Jeremiah 8:3 and a prototype. That is just drawing your own conclusion out of two different accounts that anybody can make but it is not conclusive evidence.<<<
    The Lord God said by Jeremiah (8:v.5) Why then is this people of Jerusalem slidden back by a perpetual backsliding? they hold fast deceit, they refuse to return. (Yes, they refuse to return to God by/through JESUS). BTW, by the mouth of the prophet Ezekiel the Lord called Jerusalem as a prostitute by the name of Aholibah (Ez.23:4), but now, in the days of Apocalypse, Jerusalem is called of Sodom and Egypt, where our Lord was crucified (Rev.11:v.8) .

    >>>7. What is your main point. There is no eternal punishment for Israel in the plan of God except the Jewish rebels Zechariah 13:8-9.<<<
    There are multitudes of Jewish rebels, seed of them which killed the TRUE prophets of God and crucified JESUS, the true Messiah sent by the Most High God, few, a very few, believed in JESUS, and only these will be saved. JESUS warned the Jews, saying: Matthew 23: 33-36
    33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

    34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
    35
    That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
    36 Verily I say unto you, All these things will come upon this generation. The Apostle Paul prophesied about them, saying: the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost. (1The.2:16), who will be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power, when He comes to be glorified in His saints, the True believers.
     
  9. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Rev 2:9  I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. 


    Rev 3:9  Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 









    1Jn 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 
    1Jn 2:23  Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.


    Rev 11:8  And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 


    . 
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017
  10. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    oseas,

    1. Rhetorical accuser are you? Didn't know how to answer and then accuse me of sowing tares with no proof at that.
    You should apologize.

    2. I believe John 5:43; those Jewish apostates didn't even believe Moses and that is why they didn't believe in Jesus as the Messiah John 5:46.

    3. Amos 9:14-15 says Israel would be brought back in their land and never be uprooted again.
    Ezekiel 37:1-14 talks about the regathering of Israel.
    At the end of the tribulation the nation of Israel becomes the head of nations and Jerusalem becomes the capital for out of Zion comes the law Isaiah 2:2-4.

    4. I agree many are looking for a false Messiah and that is why there will be a false gathering. Many Jews today are atheists, so they are not looking for Jesus.

    5. God will send a strong delusion but that doesn't effect Israel receiving the gifts and callings. The purpose of the time of Jacob's trouble is for Israel to be purged and come back to Christ Daniel 9:24.

    6. The Two beasts are found in Revelation 13.
    The 1st beast is the Antichrist who desecrates the temple in the AOD 2 Thessalonians 2:4; Revelation 11:1-2.

    7. The Antichrist is said in Daniel 8:5-9 seems to come out of the Grecian Kingdom as the little horn. He has to pluck 3 of the 10 horns up.
    Revelation 11:8; the two witnesses will lie in the street of the great city. Antichrist will desolate the Jewish temple. That doesn't mean he was born a Jew if that is your inference.

    8: Daniel 2:41-43; Rome was the Fourth kingdom in this context. This is before the Antichrist sets up his kingdom Revelation 13. He has to bring most likely Catholicism and Islam together.
    The Antichrist comes up among the 10 horns and will hate the whore. He will be of the seventh and even he is the eighth Revelation 17:10-11.

    9. The Beast Kingdom and the False Prophet will be in the 2nd half of the tribulation Revelation 13 for the Dragon gives his poet and seat and authority 31:2 which is after the 7 Trumpet days.

    10. Revelation 17:1-6 is the Great Whore which is the religious system that will be hated by the 10 horns and will be taken out by the 10 horns and the Antichrist and then the 10 horns will give their power to the Antichrist so he can set up his Kingdom. He will control militarily, economically and religiously with the False prophet. Revelation 17.
    The false prophet has great possibility of a pope becoming the False Prophet but the church will have to apostate completely first.
    The mystery Babylon has arguments between Rome and literal Babylon.

    11. All the scriptures you give for the end of Israel fall down at all the scriptures that says he will revive them and raise them up and though he makes them desolate he will not make a full end. This is because the promise that God's mercy will never depart from Israel like it did Saul 2 Samuel 7:16.

    12. The Beast and the false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fire burning with fire and brimstone Revelation 19:20.

    13. Matthew 23:33-36 was speaking the the leaders who were hypocrites and those things happened historically before and until 70 A.D. for right afterward Jesus tells the rejection of Israel of the KoH reign program. Jerry kelso
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017
  11. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The time of "Jacob's trouble" occurred during the Babylonian captivity thousands of years ago, based on the context of Jeremiah chapter 30.

    Based on Acts 10:38 and Hebrews 10:16-18, Daniel 9:24 was fulfilled during the first century.

    ...................................................................


    From the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.

    Daniel 9:27

    Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.
    And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    (a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

    (b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

    (c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

    .
     
  12. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    baberean2,

    1. Why do you misread context all the time.
    Jeremiah 30:3; for Lo, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the Lord: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.
    Verse 4; And these are the words that the Lord spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.
    Israel was the Northern kingdom who who was taken captive by Assyria not Babylon and they did not return to the land.
    Judah was taken captive by Babylon and returned to the land.
    Are you going to disagree with history?
    Verse 7; Alas, for that day is great is the Day of the Lord.
    Verse 9; they shall serve the Lord their God and David their King, whom I will raise up unto them. David will not be raised up till the end of the tribulation Ezekiel 37:24.
    Are you going to keep this true historical and future fact? God help you if you do.

    2. Daniel 9:24-27; 70 weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy Holy City to finish the transgression. The Jews haven't accomplished this yet. They are still backslidden and the 70 weeks are not up yet.
    The Jews have made no end to sins concerning them and the city. Many of them today don't believe in Messiah and are atheists.
    To bring in everlasting righteousness is not here, otherwise, the KoH reign would be here and Israel and Judah would be one stick and one nation Ezekiel 37:16-28.
    To seal up the vision and prophecy goes in line with Daniel 12:13; But go thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest and stand in thy lot at the end of days.
    Babylon wasn't the end of days.

    3. You think this ended with the crucifixion but you are wrong. It is about the end of days and the KoH gifts and callings for all of Israel to unite as one Ezekiel 37:16-28; Roman's 11:25-29.
    Are you going to keep denying the real truth of the scripture?
    I can and rebutted your scriptures by the proper scriptural context. All you can do is disagree with your false interpretation and context of your scriptures you give.
    Give in to the truth and be set free instead of running into a roadblock because of tunnel vision. Jerry kelso
     
  13. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Act 2:14  But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 

    Act 2:22  Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 

    Act 2:36  Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 



    Rom 11:1  I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 



    Jas 1:1  James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.


    Jas 1:2  My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; 
    Jas 1:3  Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. 



    I am going to agree with those who recorded the words of God in the New Testament, instead of depending on your interpretation of the Old Testament.

    .
     
  14. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    baberean2,

    1. The only thing you are agreeing with is your misunderstanding of the whole context.

    2. You are also being deceptive because you didn't directly rebut Jeremiah 30:1-9. Why? Because you know you were wrong.

    3. The second deception is that you didn't directly rebut Daniel 9:24. Why? Because you can't!

    4. The third deception is that you go to the early church period and try to show Israel and Judah united I assume. The problem is that the KoH program was over with.

    5. What you fail to realize is that Jeremiah's prophecy was about the future tribulation and the Day of the Lord and the setting up of the kingdom.
    So the church interval is neither here or there.
    Also, God didn't raise up David as King in the early church and that is in Jeremiah's prophecy in the last days.

    6. You need to learn the correct context first before you say you agree with the words of God in the New Testament.
    Jerry kelso
     
  15. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    >>>1. Rhetorical accuser are you? Didn't know how to answer and then accuse me of sowing tares with no proof at that. You should apologize.<<<
    You said in your reply : >>>1 what does Jesus not knowing that his prophecy would be fulfilled in 70 A.D. got to do with the price of eggs in China?<<<

    To speak truth in not an accusation. I would be un accuser if I was not speaking truth on your spirit. You have not the Spirit of the Word of God in your heart, but mere letters of the Word of God, the letter kills. Satan works with the letters of the Word of God, I know him. BY the way, he will be cast into the abyss in this first century of the seventh and last millennium.
    What does the Spirit of God say by His Word? Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. Take care: JESUS left very clear: Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. (Mat.12:36-37)

    Again: Take care: JESUS is already sat on His Tribunal, the Judgment Seat of Christ, to judge all nations.
    There will be Judgment, condmnation and punishments day after day in the days ahead, also absolution for them wich are covered by the blood of JESUS. Here goes a good example: (Exodus 12:12-13) 12 I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord. 13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.


    >>>2. I believe John 5:43; those Jewish apostates didn't even believe Moses and that is why they didn't believe in Jesus as the Messiah John 5:46.<<<

    Your literal knowledgement in which you believe, does not reveals the reality of things revealed by the Spirit of Christ, that is the Spirit of prophecy. Except a little group of true Israelites, yes, true Israelites, among millions of the Jews, will be saved in this beginning of the seventh and last millennium or seventh and last Day. It because even the Most High God, Father of JESUS Christ, will send to the people of Israel strong delusion, that they should believe in a ruthless false messiah, the own Satan incarnated, the BEAST which will rise up out of the earth (Jeruslem/Israel) Rev. 13:11-18. They did not believe in the God made flesh, NOW they will believe in the own Satan incarnated, the old Serpent, which JESUS said clearly to be the father of the Jews (John 8:44). As Paul the Apostle preached saying: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth (the love of JESUS), that they might be saved. They are lost, surely.

    Be sure that the Wicked are being revealead and he will manifest himself in the days ahead, whom the Lord will consume with the Spirit of His mouth (with His Word as you are seeing), and will destroy with the brightness of His coming.


    >>>At the end of the tribulation the nation of Israel becomes the head of nations ...
    The words you have written are not true, what you wrote is a false prophecy manfested by the spirit of lie. The second period of tribulation will be ruled by the ruthless false messiah of the the Jews, the BEAST which will rise up out of the earth(Israel/Jerusalem), the 666, (Rev.13:11-18), which will be aclaimed by the whole Israel as their messiah and universal ruler in the days ahead, as soon as he manifest himself as a messiah..

    >>>...and Jerusalem becomes the capital for out of Zion comes the law Isaiah 2:2-4.<<<
    You are using the letter of Scriptures working for Satan and his evil reign. Your Jerusalem of which you are speaking is spirituallly called Sodom and Egypt, where JESUS was crucified, and is full of idolatries, and witcheries, and thick darkness, the way the Devil likes it. Your sodomite Jerusalem belongs to the Devil, to the own Satan incarnated. The true Jerusalem which will be the “head of nations” (quoting your own words) and ruled by JESUS is the celestial Jerusalem which will come down from God: (Rev.21:2-3and so on) 2 I John saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

    >>> 4. I agree many are looking for a false Messiah and that is why there will be a false gathering. Many Jews today are atheists, so they are not looking for Jesus.<<<
    Not only atheists, but multitudes around the world are of Judaism, a kind of esotheric or spiritualist religion, the way Satan likes it, their devillish cult is full of lies, as always were in the OT. Moreover, the whole nation of Israel refused JESUS, as was prophesied by the prophets of God since ancient time.

    >>>5. God will send a strong delusion but that doesn't effect Israel receiving the gifts and callings. The purpose of the time of Jacob's trouble is for Israel to be purged and come back to Christ Daniel 9:24.<<<
    You are a sower of tares. God will send a strong delusion that they all believe a LIE, understand? ie. they believe in the ruthless and false messiah, the own Satan incarnated (Rev.13:11-18), that they ALL might be DAMNED who believed not the truth (believe not in JESUS), but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    >>>6. The Two beasts are found in Revelation 13.The 1st beast is the Antichrist who desecrates the temple in the AOD 2 Thessalonians 2:4; Revelation 11:1-2.<<<
    You are not only a sower of tares, your dissimulated spirit of lie is full of generic evasives and leads you the way Satan likes it.

    >>>7. The Antichrist is said in Daniel 8:5-9 seems to come out of the Grecian Kingdom as the little horn. He has to pluck 3 of the 10 horns up.
    Revelation 11:8; the two witnesses will lie in the street of the great city. Antichrist will desolate the Jewish temple. That doesn't mean he was born a Jew if that is your inference.<<<
    You are a sower of tares. Your Jerusalem is already desolate, and will be more desolate than now with the manifestation of the ruthless and false messiah of the Jews in the days ahead.

    >>>8: Daniel 2:41-43; Rome was the Fourth kingdom in this context. This is before the Antichrist sets up his kingdom Revelation 13. He has to bring most likely Catholicism and Islam together.
    The Antichrist comes up among the 10 horns and will hate the whore. He will be of the seventh and even he is the eighth Revelation 17:10-11.<<<
    You are a sower of tares. The satanic Catholicism together with the Judaism (iron and clay of the feet and 10 toes of the great image) will be together in to establishe a satanic and religious universal kingdom.

    >>>9. The Beast Kingdom and the False Prophet will be in the 2nd half of the tribulation Revelation 13 for the Dragon gives his poet and seat and authority 31:2 which is after the 7 Trumpet days.<<<
    You are a sower of tares. You are not saying anything truly. The spirit of lie that speaks by yourself is a master of bluffings.

    >>>10. Revelation 17:1-6 is the Great Whore which is the religious system that will be hated by the 10 horns and will be taken out by the 10 horns and the Antichrist and then the 10 horns will give their power to the Antichrist so he can set up his Kingdom. He will control militarily, economically and religiously with the False prophet. Revelation 17. The false prophet has great possibility of a pope becoming the False Prophet but the church will have to apostate completely first. The mystery Babylon has arguments between Rome and literal Babylon.<<<
    What is written in this topic 10 of your post, is a satanic theory written by an apostate. You say to be a pentecostal, but is dominated by spiritualism, the way Satan likes it.

    >>>11. All the scriptures you give for the end of Israel fall down at all the scriptures that says he will revive them and raise them up and though he makes them desolate he will not make a full end. This is because the promise that God's mercy will never depart from Israel like it did Saul 2 Samuel 7:16.<<<
    You are a sower of tares. Your interpretation of Scriptures is false, so false as your spiritual father. The Scriptures left very clear: They are not all Israel, which are of Israel.

    >>>12. The Beast and the false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fire burning with fire and brimstone Revelation 19:20.<<<
    Yes, they and their followers will be cast into the lake of everlasting fire. The everlasting Spirit of God is a devouring fire as you can see by this reply on your post. (Rev.22:15) For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Are not you leaded by a dog? Who are the dogs? Isaiah reveals who are them; (Is.56:10-12)
    10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.

    11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.

    >>>13. Matthew 23:33-36 was speaking the the leaders who were hypocrites and those things happened historically before and until 70 A.D. for right afterward Jesus tells the rejection of Israel of the KoH reign program. Jerry kelso<<<
    You are a sower of tares, you were deceived by the tail of the red dragon, the ministers of Satan. You were deceived by a satanic trinity, the three unclean spirits like frogs, spirit of devils, that come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet (false preachers of Scriptures), which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of this Great Day of God Almighty.

    Woe to the inhabiters of the earth (Israel) and of the sea(all Gentile nations)! for the Devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has but a short time.
     
  16. Oseas

    Oseas Member

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    >>>Oseas said: 4. Jewish antichrist is a view but is debatable.<<<
    What you quoted as whether I have wrote this, in truth who wrote was Jerry kelso (#584), not me. This confusion occurs because the spirit of jerry is a spirit of confusion, a spirit of lie, his spirit is a stumblinblock to the believers . Be vigilant. In my reply I said to him that what matters is to know who is speaking truth.
     
  17. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    oseas,

    1. You think I am a sower of tares? Why? Cause you think you think I don't have the Spirit of God in me cause you think I'm using the scriptures as the letter of the law? That is your opinion and you haven't proved the scriptures I've used as such.
    To be honest the jargon you have used and the manner in which you have accused me multiple times in such a serious manner most people would believe you are the sower of tares. I don't mind folks being strong on their beliefs how they interpret but you have crossed the line in personal accusations. You have said more than enough to get kicked off and banned from this site.
    You don't even know me and you are accusing me and I am defending the word of God.
    You act like your God's assistant judge which is ridiculous and I don't believe for one second you have the gift of discerning of Spirits in this case.

    2. The subjects of who the Antichrist is and the False prophet is etc. is important but, it's not like one will lose their salvation or is not a true Christian.

    3. It is important to know the difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of life and I can assure you that I do.

    4. It don't make sense that I merely explain a passage and you tell me I am a sower of tares and part of the Satanic Trinity. That is a little more than overboard and doesn't belong on this site.
    Learn how to do proper debate and rebuttal. Jerry kelso
     
  18. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    I apologize for the mistake.

    .
     
  19. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    baberean2,

    1. You may or may not agree with oseas but it is debatable for he has no scripture that clearly says the Antichrist is a Jew.
    I am not saying it is not possible but there is no beyond a doubt clear evidence in scripture.
    If somebody can give that kind of evidence I am glad to listen. Jerry kelso
     
  20. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    There are many antichrists.

    1Jn 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 
    1Jn 2:23  Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 


    Rev 2:9  I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. 


    Rev 3:9  Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 

    Some of them claim to be Jews.

    Rom 2:28  For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 

    Rom 2:29  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. 



     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
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