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Featured MORE RAPTURE QUESTIONS

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by WailingWall, Jun 24, 2017.

  1. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    Although I reject your specific applications, that is the point I was making.
     
  2. WailingWall

    WailingWall Regular Member

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    Ut oh saint2..... We are in trouble! None of them things can swim or fly!
     
  3. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    baberean2,

    1. If you believe in annihilation theory you are wrong and you do not understand and what the renovation of the earth and Heaven by fire is all about.

    2. Creating the New Heaven and the New Earth is not annihilation and starting from scratch.
    The former things not remembered or that will not come into mind will be the former things that will pass away Revelation 21:4 and death and hell and sin etc. Revelation 20:13-15.

    2. 2 Peter 3:10 is the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.
    The Heavens passing away with a great noise in the Ethiopian not with a noise, which fits like a thief in the night. Either way it will not be matter that is done away with but things that are not cohesive to the new nature.

    3. The elements burn with fervent heat is to purge and purify. Not only the earth but the works in the earth too.
    These have to do with sin and death and Isaiah 11:6-9 said the Wolf will lay down with the Lamb, and the leopard with the kid, and the young Lion with the fatling etc. and nothing shall hurt or destroy in my Holy mountain. Why? Because God will rule with a rod of iron Psalm 1:9 and there will be a kingdom of peace with the prince of peace as well as justice Isaiah 9:6-7.

    4. The things dissolved parallels things with Holy conduct and Godliness.
    Hebrews 12:27-29; there are gonna be things shaken and removed and things that remain intact that serve the purpose of God.

    5. Once again you are wrong and you are perception is off because of what you think it says and means.
    Whether you like it or not, not everything is cut and dry as it may appear.
    Learn how to correctly exegete the scriptures for all you are coming up with is your own limited knowledge based on false perception of the wording. Jerry kelso
     
  4. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    wailingwall,

    1. There is no record of the church being raptured in the prophets because it was a mystery to them 1Corinthians 15:51-52.
    The Old Testament had a type of the rapture with Enoch being translated before the flood.
    So, I am sorry but you are wrong and must not understand the context of mystery in this case. Jerry kelso
     
  5. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    keras,

    1. It by the type of Enoch being translated to Heaven before the coming of Judgement by Noah's flood Genesis 5:24.
    In Jude1:14 prophesied the second coming which is the Day of the Lord saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousand of his saints to execute Judgement upon all etc.
    Revelation 19:11 shows the saints coming out of Heaven with Christ to execute judgement on the Day of the Lord at the great supper of God Revelation 19:11-17.
    It is plain to see the pre-trib rapture and the second coming are totally different in nature and purpose and destiny.

    2. The true church already bears the proper fruit.

    3. There is no scripture that says God wants everyone to live in the Holy land if you are talking about the land of Israel.

    4. 1 Corinthians 15:24
    When he delivers up the Kingdom to God, even the Father is right after the GWTJ Revelation 20:11-15 when the New Heaven and the New Earth are created in Revelation 21:1-2.

    5. Verse 25: For he must reign (1000 years) till he hath put all enemies under his feet which are those in the last rebellion of Revelation 20:7-10.

    6. Verse 26; The last enemy destroyed will be death which will be a part of the happening of the GWTJ Revelation 20:11-15.

    7. All Christians will be light to the nations but Israel will be at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4 and the law shall go forth out of Zion.

    8. Revelation 20:4 are the ones who didn't take the mark and are the same ones in Revelation 15:1-2 and are resurrected right before the 7 vials are poured out Revelation 16:1.
    They will not be the only ones ruling for the church is being trained right now to rule and reign through our present sufferings 1 Timothy 2:12.

    9. The last of the tribulation saints who are in the First Resurrection are resurrected before the 7 Vials are poured out on the beast worshippers Revelation 15:1-2; 16:1-2.
    The Rapture is a day for our Blessed Hope Titus 2:13 and the Second Coming; Day of the Lord is a day of vengeance Isaiah 61:2.
    Sorry, but you are way off base and have no scripture or scriptural context to prove your logic which is not really logical at all. Jerry kelso
     
  6. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Jerry Kelso, your comments are confused and your remarks about my logical conclusions are out of line.

    You quote Titus 2:13 as a rapture proof. It is no such thing, that verse says our hope is in our savior Jesus to appear again, on earth.
    You fail to see how Israel; the Jewish people will be judged for their continued refusal to accept Jesus and their apostasy. God will not forgive or redeem them, or any people who reject Him.
    The idea that we Christians will accompany Jesus at His Return, is simply unscriptural; Revelation 19:14 clearly states that the armies of heaven come with Him.
     
  7. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Jerry,

    The Master Carpenter has already built us a New House out of two pieces of wood and a handful of nails.


    In Galatians 4 Paul said it is above, now.

    In Hebrews 11 the heavenly city has already been prepared.

    In the Book of Revelation the New Jerusalem comes down from heaven.


    Joh_14:2  In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.


    Gal 4:26  But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 


    Heb 11:16  But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. 
    (This verse is written in the present tense during the first century. The heavenly city was already prepared at that point.)


    Rev_3:12  Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


    Rev_21:2  And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.


    Satan offered this rotten, sin-cursed world to Christ during His temptation in the wilderness.
    Christ did not want it, but He now owns the title deed to it. He paid for it in Blood at Calvary.


    When His sinless heel touches this earth at His Second Coming it will initiate an earthquake that will split the planet in half. The text says it will be the greatest earthquake in history. It will begin a process that will destroy this earth with fire. I am talking about a fire hotter than the core of the sun, in which the elements will be vaporized.
    This is what Peter is describing in 2 Peter chapter 3. Read it for yourself.


    Look up the word "dissolve" in the dictionary.


    You are trying to preserve this world for your Two Peoples of God/ Two Plans of God doctrine. Your doctrine was destroyed in Hebrews 11:16. Abraham does not want Canaan Land. He desires the heavenly city, instead. Who could blame him?

    .
     
  8. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    It is legitimate to debate the timing f the rapture. But it is blatant unbelief to deny that it will take place.
     
  9. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    keras,

    1. You have no scripture just rhetorical opinion.

    2. Romans 11:25-29. This shows the nation of Israel will Repent of their sins just like in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:7-13.
    Ezekiel 37:16-28 shows prophetically that Israel and Judah will be reunited as one stick and David will be King over Israel.
    Jeremiah 30:7 shows David will be King over Israel for God will raise him up then.
    Hosea is all about Israel backsliding and coming back to God.

    3. Who do you think the armies of Heaven are?
    Jude says that Enoch prophesied that the Lord will come back with thousands of his saints.
    You have no scripture to prove your point because it will not reconcile with the whole context.
    You can disagree but you can't rebut the scriptures and context to the big picture I gave from the Word of God. Jerry kelso
     
  10. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    berean2,

    1. The house built because of Calvary is spiritual. People couldn't build that Kingdom. Matthew 26:28.
    The physical KoH reign on earth Christ will build and no man can build it because he will take over the kingdoms over the world Revelation 11:15.

    2. Galatians 4 Jerusalem is above because Christ is in Heaven. He is the one who saves the soul not the law.

    3. The Heavenly City Jesus said he went to prepare us a place with mansions etc. John 14:6

    4. The Heavenly city has nothing to do with the physical KoH reign on earth.
    The Old Testament saints and New Testament saints who have already died are already in Heaven. The church will be raptured and resurrected to Heaven with the dead in Christ 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.
    The promises to the overcomers of the church is the Holy City when it comes down from Heaven after the 1000 years and the GWTJ and the New Heaven and the New Earth are renovated.

    5. Satan did offer the Kingdoms of the world and at Calvary you can say he has the title deed but the truth is that the kingdoms of this world becoming Christ has not come to actual fruition such as in Revelation 11:15 shows will happen at the end of the tribulation.

    6. The Bible doesn't say the earthquake splits the planet in half. That is your opinion because of your perception which is false.

    7. I have already shown that the elements of the fire will purge and purify things that don't need to be there because of the curse of sin.
    The shaking in Habakkuk and Hebrews prove the renovation physically and spiritually and proves their is no annihilation of the earth ever.
    Your definition of dissolve is incorrect and doesn't fit the context.

    8. Your accusation of two peoples of God and two plans of God was debunked eons ago and Hebrews 11:16 Abraham did seek a Heavenly country and he is there now.
    Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will all be in the KoH Matthew 8:11.
    David will be King of Israel in the KoH Ezekiel 37-24. But he is in Heaven right now and will be in the pre-trib rapture.

    9. The Old and New Testament saints and tribulation saints will all be a heavenly citizen but will have part of the KoH reign.
    They will also go back to Heaven and come back down from Heaven to earth as well once the KoG becomes all in al 1 Corinthians 15:28 and Revelation 21:1-2.
    You are mixed up and confused and one-sided and ignoring scriptures to circumvent the truth of the scripture just like Jeremiah 30:7. Jerry kelso
     
  11. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    When one piece of land goes to the North and the other piece of land goes to the South, what would you call it?

    Do you know anything about Plate Tectonics?

    .
     
  12. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    baberean2,

    1. Plate Tetonics is a theory just like your spiritual Jew theory and next you'll be trying to convince everybody that Gobal Warming is true. Give me a break Mr. Tetonic whose theories are mere personal suppositions. Jerry kelso
     
  13. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    OK. Post a scripture that says the Lord intends to take His people to heaven.

    Do not use 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, as that prophecy is about the Return of Jesus, He leaves heaven and gathers His people to Him; to where He is, at first in the clouds, then in Jerusalem.

    Jerry Kelso, I should report you for unacceptable comments. Your attitude is rude and unchristian. Arguing with you is a waste of time.
     
  14. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 19, the Marriage Supper of the Lamb takes place in heaven. I plan to be there as part of the bride.
     
  15. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    keras,

    1. I said nothing rude but stated a fact about rhetorical opinion.

    2. You say it is a waste of time to argue with me. That is a clear indication you just want to argue your belief instead of showing proper scripture and context and scriptural logic.
    Jerry kelso
     
  16. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Revelation 19:1-2 After this I heard the sound of many people in heaven shouting Hallelujah!.....God has condemned the Great whore.....and has avenged the blood of His servants.
    Plainly those people in heaven are the martyrs, who are praising God for His final judgement on their murderers. Proved by Revelation 6:9-11 where those martyrs are given the ability to speak out.
    I repeat: there is no scripture that says God will take living people to heaven.
     
  17. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Plate Tectonics is now a proven scientific fact. Look it up.

    Man-made Global Warming is a hoax, just like the pretrib rapture of the Church.

    .
     
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  18. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    My beliefs correspond with what all the Bible tells us.
    May I ask that you take a look at my logostelos.info website and check out the scriptures I write about with the proper context and using unbiased logic.
     
  19. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    So, you aren't going to address the marriage supper verses then?

    Jesus said He was going to prepare a place for us in His Father's house and then come back to take us where He is.

    Answer this... if the place prepared for us is in the Father's house, and the Father is in heaven, how do we get to the place prepared for us in heaven without ever actually going there?
     
  20. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    There simply isn't enough Bible info to be sure about where and exactly when the Marriage supper of the Lamb will take place.
    The Prophetic Word is plain: the New Jerusalem, prepared by the Lord, comes down to us. Revelation 21:1-4

    It seems you can't provide a verse that says God will take His people to heaven.
    Jesus refutes it; John 3:13, John 8:21-22, John 17:15, + Why do you believe it?
     
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