Millennial Considerations

[LastSeven]

I have told you the truth but you can't understand it as the truth is not in you
I have not replaced anyone with anybody for any reason , again you have severe lack of comprehending what you read as I have never even hinted at anything you FALSELY claim You are flat out lying in this post as I have never said or done anything you have claimed and I am sick of your lies , you can believe the rubbish you want to but don't make false claims and lies as it will come back at you , You cannot prove anything you say , I am telling the truth - you are telling lies , get a grip , and stop your lies and go your own way

Bab just told you what the scriptures say, so how can you say that he's lying without also calling the scriptures lies?

 

[seventysevens]

Bab just told you what the scriptures say, so how can you say that he's lying without also calling the scriptures lies?

If you are honest you will not just focus on what you want to see, but see and read the Holy scriptures that were posted that proves what I claimed are true , if you choose to see only what you prefer to see the you have a problem that only you and God can resolve

 

[DavidPT]

Genesis 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.


Here is what the text states-----And I will make of thee a great nation

Whatever nation that was meaning back then in Abraham's day, it would have to still be meaning this same nation today.

Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


Here's the problem. If the nation the kingdom of God shall be taken from is meaning the same nation God said He would make a great nation per Genesis 12:2, and is given to a different nation, that nation it is given to can't be meaning this same nation in Genesis 12:2 then. Because if that nation was really meaning the nation in Genesis 12:2 the kingdom of God is given to per Matthew 21:43, how does one explain it gets taken away from others already in possesion of the kingdom of God, then given to a nation that had not already been in possession?

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Wonder why they asked this? Maybe because of Matthew 21:43 for one. And the fact Jesus never told them they were wrong to even think such a thing, obviously then, Matthew 21:43 wasn't meaning for forever when it stated---Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you.

 

[Davy]

Genesis 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.


Here is what the text states-----And I will make of thee a great nation

Whatever nation that was meaning back then in Abraham's day, it would have to still be meaning this same nation today.

Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


Here's the problem. If the nation the kingdom of God shall be taken from is meaning the same nation God said He would make a great nation per Genesis 12:2, and is given to a different nation, that nation it is given to can't be meaning this same nation in Genesis 12:2 then. Because if that nation was really meaning the nation in Genesis 12:2 the kingdom of God is given to per Matthew 21:43, how does one explain it gets taken away from others already in possesion of the kingdom of God, then given to a nation that had not already been in possession?

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Wonder why they asked this? Maybe because of Matthew 21:43 for one. And the fact Jesus never told them they were wrong to even think such a thing, obviously then, Matthew 21:43 wasn't meaning for forever when it stated---Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you.

Surely you're not saying Jesus will not ever... restore the old kingdom of Israel, for that's exactly what the OT prophets said He would do, and that's where His disciples in Acts 1 got the idea, i.e., from the OT prophets.

In Jeremiah 31, God said if the ordinances of the sun, moon, and stars depart from Him, then Israel would cease from being a nation before Him (Jer.31:35-40).

 

[DavidPT]

Surely you're not saying Jesus will not ever... restore the old kingdom of Israel, for that's exactly what the OT prophets said He would do, and that's where His disciples in Acts 1 got the idea, i.e., from the OT prophets.

In Jeremiah 31, God said if the ordinances of the sun, moon, and stars depart from Him, then Israel would cease from being a nation before Him (Jer.31:35-40).

How did you conclude that from what I wrote? I'm saying, by making the points I did in the manner I did, that surely the kingdom of God will be restored to the same nation it was taken away from, per Matthew 21:43. The very same nation meant in Genesis 12:2.

Amil is apparently anti this nation meant in Genesis 12:2. That seems pretty obvious by the reading of their posts and how they claim that the Jews who have been gathering back into their land since the last century, that none of this is of God in any way.

 

[LastSeven]

If you are honest you will not just focus on what you want to see, but see and read the Holy scriptures that were posted that proves what I claimed are true , if you choose to see only what you prefer to see the you have a problem that only you and God can resolve

You're not addressing the point. You're just accusing me of being blind. Why don't you address the point? The point being that you're literally disagreeing with the scriptures that Bab posted.

 

[seventysevens]

You're not addressing the point. You're just accusing me of being blind. Why don't you address the point? The point being that you're literally disagreeing with the scriptures that Bab posted.

NO the point is -IF you paid attention I stated my case that God stated that HE WILL bring back Israel that HE scattered to the same land from which he scattered them ; bab said there was no scripture in the bible that said such as I stated - so I provided Many scriptures that completely support and prove that I was correct
as expected I knew he would have a problem with it , but the scripture is posted and very clear evidence
Why don't you offer a detailed clear concise description what you call Israel , ---recall the name Israel is what was given to Jacob , because of the angel he struggled with and Jacob said that he would not let the angel go until the angel blessed Jacob ?
All this foolishness bashing Israel unless the term New Covenant is used along with it is rubbish like unto rubbish like white supremacy or black panthers and all the like who seek to elevate themselves above the rest of others
You guys should have the ability to see that God made a promise to bring back Israel - that is where Jesus returns to and Israel has to exist before Jesus will return
But in the mind of you guys that has already happened , so when we see the results of God fulfilling His promise you guys call it fraud -deception and other folly
Wake Up the real show is getting ready to begin!

 

[LastSeven]

Wake Up the real show is getting ready to begin!

I've been hearing this since I first stepped foot inside a church back in 1980. Now you accuse us of racism and hatred, which I personally have not seen on this board, but you blindly support a nation of anti-Christs in the name of Christ. You can't see the irony in that?

 

[keras]

Surely you're not saying Jesus will not ever... restore the old kingdom of Israel, for that's exactly what the OT prophets said He would do, and that's where His disciples in Acts 1 got the idea, i.e., from the OT prophets.

In Jeremiah 31, God said if the ordinances of the sun, moon, and stars depart from Him, then Israel would cease from being a nation before Him (Jer.31:35-40).

God WILL restore Israel. But do not think that the Jewish people are all of Israel. Remember that God told Abraham and Jacob, Genesis 35:11, that a multitude of nations would descend from them and we can know who they are from how the prophesies of Jacob and Moses have been fulfilled by them.

 

[DavidPT]

God WILL restore Israel.

You seem to be meaning this in future tense. And if so, aren't there many who believe the church is now this Israel in question? If Israel is now the church, why would the church need to be restored?

 

[parousia70]

Wonder why they asked this? Maybe because of Matthew 21:43 for one. And the fact Jesus never told them they were wrong to even think such a thing, obviously then, Matthew 21:43 wasn't meaning for forever when it stated---Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you.

So you believe Matthew 21:43 is as PAST FULFILLED event?
Or are we still waiting for that to happen?

 

[parousia70]

NO the point is -IF you paid attention I stated my case that God stated that HE WILL bring back Israel that HE scattered to the same land from which he scattered them ; bab said there was no scripture in the bible that said such as I stated - so I provided Many scriptures that completely support and prove that I was correct !!!!!!!

All the prophecies about the dispersion and return of the Jews to their own land were fulfilled at the end the Babylonian Captivity in 457 B.C.,— not 1948 when the State of Israel was formed.

"In all your dwelling places the cities shall be laid waste, and the high places desolate . . . ye shall be scattered among the countries . . . among the nations whither they shall be carried captives . . . all the house of Israel shall remove and go into captivity . . . I will scatter them among the nations" (Ezekiel ch. 6–12).

This was the Diaspora. . . . And now the re-gathering of the Jews to their own land 70 years later:

"For thus saith the Lord, that after 70 years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you . . . and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations . . . and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive" (Jeremiah. 29: 10-14).

Not one single verse in the Old Testament, or New, written AFTER the Babylonian Captivity mentions any other dispersion and re-gathering of the Jews. Not even ONE.

Such is purely a man made invention.

 

[DavidPT]

So you believe Matthew 21:43 is as PAST FULFILLED event?
Or are we still waiting for that to happen?

I'm assuming it is past fulfilled. Because if it isn't, and let's say Jesus returns within the next 10 years, as an example, what would fulfill Matthew 21:43 within the next 10 years that didn't already fulfill it in the past?

 

[parousia70]

I'm assuming it is past fulfilled. Because if it isn't, and let's say Jesus returns within the next 10 years, as an example, what would fulfill Matthew 21:43 within the next 10 years that didn't already fulfill it in the past?

The challenge you have is with Verse 40.

Jesus stated plainly that the kingdom would be taken away from them and leased to others at the time of "the coming of the Lord of the Vineyard" (Matthew 21:40)

So, if Matt 21:43 is past, then so is Matt 21:40

 

[DavidPT]

All the prophecies about the dispersion and return of the Jews to their own land were fulfilled at the end the Babylonian Captivity in 457 B.C.,— not 1948 when the State of Israel was formed.

"In all your dwelling places the cities shall be laid waste, and the high places desolate . . . ye shall be scattered among the countries . . . among the nations whither they shall be carried captives . . . all the house of Israel shall remove and go into captivity . . . I will scatter them among the nations" (Ezekiel ch. 6–12).

This was the Diaspora. . . . And now the re-gathering of the Jews to their own land 70 years later:

"For thus saith the Lord, that after 70 years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you . . . and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations . . . and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive" (Jeremiah. 29: 10-14).

Not one single verse in the Old Testament, or New, written AFTER the Babylonian Captivity mentions any other dispersion and re-gathering of the Jews. Not even ONE.

Such is purely a man made invention.

How do you then explain the parts that indicate they will be dwelling their forever?

Ezekiel 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.


Such as this verse.

And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt

and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever

and my servant David shall be their prince for ever

For ever can't possibly fit into an age that doesn't last for ever, such as this current age. It can start in this age but would have to continue throughout the next age, the eternal age. The text then means, once they are back dwelling in the land that He had given unto Jacob His servant, wherein their fathers have dwelt, from that time on, without end, they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever. And without end as well, His servant David shall be their prince for ever


Your interpretation apparently denies all of these things.

 

[DavidPT]

The challenge you have is with Verse 40.

Jesus stated plainly that the kingdom would be taken away from them and leased to others at the time of "the coming of the Lord of the Vineyard" (Matthew 21:40)

So, if Matt 21:43 is past, then so is Matt 21:40

As to Matt 21:40, the events of 70 AD seem to explain some of that. So yes, that would make Matt 21:40 past as well, in regards to what happens to their city.

 

[BABerean2]

For ever can't possibly fit into an age that doesn't last for ever, such as this current age. It can start in this age but would have to continue throughout the next age, the eternal age. The text then means, once they are back dwelling in the land that He had given unto Jacob His servant, wherein their fathers have dwelt, from that time on, without end, they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever. And without end as well, His servant David shall be their prince for ever

Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

.

 

[parousia70]

How do you then explain the parts that indicate they will be dwelling their forever?

Ezekiel 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
For ever can't possibly fit into an age that doesn't last for ever, such as this current age. It can start in this age but would have to continue throughout the next age, the eternal age.

Wait, what???
if this supposedly begins sometime BEFORE a future 2nd coming, then How do they dewll there "forever" if this world is to be burned to a crisp and replaced with a new one one that is materially different from the present one...?

IF The Land God gave to Jacob is to be eliminated from material existence sometime in our future and REPLACED with a new land, how do you reconcile that?

Your interpretation apparently denies all of these things.

Jesus said, (which should be authoritative for us), that the Kingdom would be leased to another nation when "The Lord of the Vineyard comes"
Your interpretation says Jesus was wrong to say that.

If you are comfortable purging that passage from your Bible so the Ezekiel passages can better fit your view, i guess that is your perogative.

 

[DavidPT]

Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

.

I'm fully aware of this passage. But let's go back to the passage in Ezekiel 37 though.

Ezekiel 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.


In order for you to be correct, that would mean Ezekiel 37:25 would be meaning this.

And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, the city per Heb 11:16, wherein your fathers have dwelt, in the city per Heb 11:16; and they shall dwell therein, in the city per Heb 11:16, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.


You can prove from other OT Scriptures that the land the LORD gave their fathers was not literal land with borders, etc, but was this city per Heb 11:16 instead?

 

[DavidPT]

Wait, what???
if this supposedly begins sometime BEFORE a future 2nd coming, then How do they dewll there "forever" if this world is to be burned to a crisp and replaced with a new one one that is materially different from the present one...?

IF The Land God gave to Jacob is to be eliminated from material existence sometime in our future and REPLACED with a new land, how do you reconcile that?



Jesus said, (which should be authoritative for us), that the Kingdom would be leased to another nation when "The Lord of the Vineyard comes"
Your interpretation says Jesus was wrong to say that.

If you are comfortable purging that passage from your Bible so the Ezekiel passages can better fit your view, i guess that is your perogative.

In my view this earth never literally gets burned up. Also per my view, the land remains the same, borders and all, forever, apparently. I'm not one that believes this current earth is totally annihilated and a new one appears in it's place. There will be a new earth alright, so not denying that. But that hardly means where Jerusalem is currently located geographically, as an example, that this will no longer be the case on the new earth. Why wouldn't it be? If man had never fallen, wouldn't everything still be the same anyway, geographically, for forever?