Masks can help you stop the virus

[loveofourlord]

No, I didn't push for them at all, I just put forth an argument that life and death by numbers is sometimes meaningless and statistics about this virus doesn't preclude me not wearing a mask will injure or kill anyone at all, it more precludes that people will die not because of my not masking but because their immune system is not able to keep them alive. In other words if a person can die of the virus, as infectious as it is if I wore a mask someone else would sooner or later infect them and my "saving them" would be of no effect at all.
The 2% will remain at risk but trying to mask 300+ million people protect an unknown 2-3 million people by wearing masks which probably have a higher than 2% rate of infecting others wearing the mask is not going to be a solution to all of this in the end. If I have a 98% chance of not being hospitalized and a 99.5% chance of not dying of it is that a reason to mask everyone, shut down their businesses and torment people to get that 98% chance to 99% chance of surviving and 99.7% chance of not dying from this thing?
I don't see the improvement of odds of it all a reason to freak out over this thing.

Given how close many states are to colapsing right now....yeah, it helps. And guess what places where it's getting out of hand, buisnesses arn't doing so hot anyway, so you kill people for greed and get nothing for it. And stop with the nonsense about deaths, it's a huge part but it's noit the entire picture, many other complications come from this disease, that are killing people, and potentially leaving them maimed for life. You can't claim to be pro-life and saying, "3-6 million people should die for my selfish need not to be inconvienced.

 

[Sophrosyne]

wow...I havn't seen this dumb argument for months, brings back memories, you do know that you can spread the disease asymptomaticly, wether your showing or not, there is no gaurantee you don't have the disease, and arn't spreading it.

I've seen conflicting reports on this... some claiming those with NO symptoms rarely (less than 2%) are infectious.
It is quite possible that people indeed have fevers and other symptoms but ignore them as they are not severe enough to be the virus. There have been people that tested positive that the tests were wrong about as they were positive but only for antibodies. So in other words any argument made without facts is meaningless here.
If truly this virus spreads regardless of anything done.... masking everyone and distancing have to continue forever till noone on the planet has it at all.... nowhere or a miracle cure is found or herd immunity banishes it from infecing people.... masks only delay the inevitable... flatten the curve that will still remain.
Basically without a vaccine people that can be killed or harmed by this.... will be. Sad but true.
I will still distance myself from others and check my temperature daily like I have since this virus was discovered and talked about.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Given how close many states are to colapsing right now....yeah, it helps. And guess what places where it's getting out of hand, buisnesses arn't doing so hot anyway, so you kill people for greed and get nothing for it. And stop with the nonsense about deaths, it's a huge part but it's noit the entire picture, many other complications come from this disease, that are killing people, and potentially leaving them maimed for life. You can't claim to be pro-life and saying, "3-6 million people should die for my selfish need not to be inconvienced.

Umm.... no, not wearing a mask isn't "killing" people and not allowing people to make a living such that they lose their home and become homeless isn't greedy at all. If it were not for the covid additional unemployment funds I would probably be homeless right now because of the FEAR from this virus shut down my work and nobody at my job had covid either. I lost my job not because of greed but because of overreacting to FEAR of people dying and there is still overreacting going on. People don't realize that trying to save a few million can harm 10s of millions of others here in the US for decades to come many who may resort to crime or take their lives because their good future was demolished to save the weak, which in turn makes them.... also weak but not infected and dead... Yay covid 19 it took my business making me 100k a year and now I'm homeless and have COVID 19 because I cannot afford even a mask and I die of it because I lost everything.

 

[Sophrosyne]

But anyway.... put your trust in masks to save you and see how this virus drags on and on for years because it is so infectious masking will only slow the spread people who will die may live another day or week or month but still most likely will be infected and die then but have to live in a hellish life where they cannot see anyones face in public and all the "normal" activities are canceled so they will suffer before they get it and die anyway.
The only hope is a vaccine and the "experts" are now saying that even that may not be possible.
If there is never a miracle cure then we will slowly see the 2% fall into Covid's trap it will over time find them and infect them unless we all crawl under a rock and go back to the stone age so nobody will ever infect anyone else.

 

[loveofourlord]

But anyway.... put your trust in masks to save you and see how this virus drags on and on for years because it is so infectious masking will only slow the spread people who will die may live another day or week or month but still most likely will be infected and die then but have to live in a hellish life where they cannot see anyones face in public and all the "normal" activities are canceled so they will suffer before they get it and die anyway.
The only hope is a vaccine and the "experts" are now saying that even that may not be possible.
If there is never a miracle cure then we will slowly see the 2% fall into Covid's trap it will over time find them and infect them unless we all crawl under a rock and go back to the stone age so nobody will ever infect anyone else.

whats your solution? Stay open till your forced to close? MULTIPLE states are colapsing right now, their health care can't keep up, they arn't going to be able to keep buisnesses open, people arn't going to shop and such and you end up in a worse place. So what do you suggest? Without shutting down, texas, florida and arizona are out of time and luck.

 

[loveofourlord]

Umm.... no, not wearing a mask isn't "killing" people and not allowing people to make a living such that they lose their home and become homeless isn't greedy at all. If it were not for the covid additional unemployment funds I would probably be homeless right now because of the FEAR from this virus shut down my work and nobody at my job had covid either. I lost my job not because of greed but because of overreacting to FEAR of people dying and there is still overreacting going on. People don't realize that trying to save a few million can harm 10s of millions of others here in the US for decades to come many who may resort to crime or take their lives because their good future was demolished to save the weak, which in turn makes them.... also weak but not infected and dead... Yay covid 19 it took my business making me 100k a year and now I'm homeless and have COVID 19 because I cannot afford even a mask and I die of it because I lost everything.

And you don't understand that guess what, you remain open and you end up with the same problem, only worse, because as I've said before it's happening right now where multiple states are not going to last much longer staying open. Healthcare is colapsing, people arn't going to go out for fear of the disease and all because people were too greedy. And yes it's greed, the goverment could support people and help them get through this.

 

[BABerean2]

And yes it's greed, the goverment could support people and help them get through this.

Governments must take money from one person, to give it to another person, or print money out of thin air, which can cause hyperinflation. Inflation dilutes the value of the money in the bank account of every person in the nation. It is a form of theft.

Have you ever taken a basic economics class?

Telling people to stay at home, and printing up 3 trillion dollars out of thin air will have consequences.

.

 

[Sophrosyne]

whats your solution? Stay open till your forced to close? MULTIPLE states are colapsing right now, their health care can't keep up, they arn't going to be able to keep buisnesses open, people arn't going to shop and such and you end up in a worse place. So what do you suggest? Without shutting down, texas, florida and arizona are out of time and luck.

There is no solution... masks don't stop the spread they only slow it the experts know that.
The facts are as follows:
1)N95 masks are for healthcare people
2)The rest of us aren't advised about "good masks" nor issued any
3)Apparently even N95 are better at stopping the virus than other masks
4)If N95 are better and we don't have them then our masking is less effective
5)Less effective = more spreading, less stopping than N95
6)Experts by not trying to get everyone N95 masks aren't interested in stopping the spread right now
7)If they aren't interested in stopping the virus it means they don't think masks can stop it.
8)If masks aren't going to stop it.... it won't stop
9)If it won't stop then and masks don't stop it then sooner or later everyone will have to deal with being infected
10)If everyone sooner or later is infected then whatever the chances are... they are
11)The only way out of this mess is either a "cure" or herd immunity
12)Herd immunity if possible is slowed by masking and distancing
13)Masking and distancing which delays herd immunity makes is LESS safe for the 2% trying to "stay safe" as they chances of them coming across someone infected are continual and add up over time.
14)So in order to "save" those at most risk we have to delay herd immunity for possibly years thus isolating them during that time
15)people who are "being safe" in isolation may suffer and die or kill themselves because of feeling hopeless that they will die in isolation
16)if someone dies because of being in "safe isolation" are we just as responsible because we resist herd immunity to protect them?

and so on

 

[A_Thinker]

There is no solution... masks don't stop the spread they only slow it the experts know that.
The facts are as follows:
1)N95 masks are for healthcare people
2)The rest of us aren't advised about "good masks" nor issued any
3)Apparently even N95 are better at stopping the virus than other masks
4)If N95 are better and we don't have them then our masking is less effective
5)Less effective = more spreading, less stopping than N95
6)Experts by not trying to get everyone N95 masks aren't interested in stopping the spread right now
7)If they aren't interested in stopping the virus it means they don't think masks can stop it.
8)If masks aren't going to stop it.... it won't stop
9)If it won't stop then and masks don't stop it then sooner or later everyone will have to deal with being infected
10)If everyone sooner or later is infected then whatever the chances are... they are
11)The only way out of this mess is either a "cure" or herd immunity
12)Herd immunity if possible is slowed by masking and distancing
13)Masking and distancing which delays herd immunity makes is LESS safe for the 2% trying to "stay safe" as they chances of them coming across someone infected are continual and add up over time.
14)So in order to "save" those at most risk we have to delay herd immunity for possibly years thus isolating them during that time
15)people who are "being safe" in isolation may suffer and die or kill themselves because of feeling hopeless that they will die in isolation
16)if someone dies because of being in "safe isolation" are we just as responsible because we resist herd immunity to protect them?

and so on

Please ... don't wear a mask ...

 

[Sophrosyne]

Please ... don't wear a mask ...

So far I haven't... but then I don't have anyone "at risk" around me that an infection would be dangerous to them.

 

[loveofourlord]

Governments must take money from one person, to give it to another person, or print money out of thin air, which can cause hyperinflation. Inflation dilutes the value of the money in the bank account of every person in the nation. It is a form of theft.

Have you ever taken a basic economics class?

Telling people to stay at home, and printing up 3 trillion dollars out of thin air will have consequences.

.

well whats going to be worse, recesi9on and 3 million people dead or helping everyone?

 

[loveofourlord]

There is no solution... masks don't stop the spread they only slow it the experts know that.
The facts are as follows:
1)N95 masks are for healthcare people
2)The rest of us aren't advised about "good masks" nor issued any
3)Apparently even N95 are better at stopping the virus than other masks
4)If N95 are better and we don't have them then our masking is less effective
5)Less effective = more spreading, less stopping than N95
6)Experts by not trying to get everyone N95 masks aren't interested in stopping the spread right now
7)If they aren't interested in stopping the virus it means they don't think masks can stop it.
8)If masks aren't going to stop it.... it won't stop
9)If it won't stop then and masks don't stop it then sooner or later everyone will have to deal with being infected
10)If everyone sooner or later is infected then whatever the chances are... they are
11)The only way out of this mess is either a "cure" or herd immunity
12)Herd immunity if possible is slowed by masking and distancing
13)Masking and distancing which delays herd immunity makes is LESS safe for the 2% trying to "stay safe" as they chances of them coming across someone infected are continual and add up over time.
14)So in order to "save" those at most risk we have to delay herd immunity for possibly years thus isolating them during that time
15)people who are "being safe" in isolation may suffer and die or kill themselves because of feeling hopeless that they will die in isolation
16)if someone dies because of being in "safe isolation" are we just as responsible because we resist herd immunity to protect them?

and so on

Again I ask what is your solution? that isn't a solution it's sticking your fingers in the ear while the world burns around you. What is your solution to the fact that multiple states are on the verge of colapse due to following idiotic ideas like your own.

Health care in multiple states in about to collapse, the economy will fall apart as everyone will be too scared to go out and it gets worse, or the states have to shut down. Then you have thousands dying, hundreds of thousands with permanent damage, and medical bills that are through the roof, health care insurance that will go bankrupt....hmmm anything else? In your fear of destroying the economy you have made it worse, congrats.

 

[Archivist]

Umm.... no, not wearing a mask isn't "killing" people and not allowing people to make a living such that they lose their home and become homeless isn't greedy at all. If it were not for the covid additional unemployment funds I would probably be homeless right now because of the FEAR from this virus shut down my work and nobody at my job had covid either. I lost my job not because of greed but because of overreacting to FEAR of people dying and there is still overreacting going on. People don't realize that trying to save a few million can harm 10s of millions of others here in the US for decades to come many who may resort to crime or take their lives because their good future was demolished to save the weak, which in turn makes them.... also weak but not infected and dead... Yay covid 19 it took my business making me 100k a year and now I'm homeless and have COVID 19 because I cannot afford even a mask and I die of it because I lost everything.

Are you using a computer at a public library? If you can afford to pay fees for home computer access then you can afford a couple bucks for a mask. I know what Comcast charges me for access and it isn’t cheap.

 

[Archivist]

So far I haven't... but then I don't have anyone "at risk" around me that an infection would be dangerous to them.

You don’t have to be at risk to get the virus. I have a friend who is a police officer—someone in very good health—who got it despite being in good health and not having any of the risk factors.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Again I ask what is your solution? that isn't a solution it's sticking your fingers in the ear while the world burns around you. What is your solution to the fact that multiple states are on the verge of colapse due to following idiotic ideas like your own.

Health care in multiple states in about to collapse, the economy will fall apart as everyone will be too scared to go out and it gets worse, or the states have to shut down. Then you have thousands dying, hundreds of thousands with permanent damage, and medical bills that are through the roof, health care insurance that will go bankrupt....hmmm anything else? In your fear of destroying the economy you have made it worse, congrats.

I'm not in charge of this mess the only thing I can think of it herd immunity. Everything you can think of about this virus and what has been done or not you can find both negative and positive things about it a lot of conflicting information which makes it almost impossible to truly know the best thing to do.
nobody truly knows if there is any "practice" other than total isolation of an entire population on a permanent basis and not allowing anyone access till they have both been in quarantine and tested negative to ensure no possible infection. New Zealand is now this way nobody has the virus and to get in you have to quarantine 14 days. They will have to stay this way till the whole world is "cured" of the vaccine.
In the US this is not possible because we have aren't an island there is no easy way to cordon off any states other than perhaps hawaii to outwait infections. I've heard to get herd immunity it would take from 60-70% of the population to be infected and immune to the virus. I've also heard that some are now thinking that immunity to the virus may vanish after a few months which would make a permanent vaccine and herd immunity almost impossible.
My huge problem with all this mess is the outright exaggeration and lies presented like the following:
1)If everyone masks and distances we can "stop" the virus. This is an ouright lie and those in charge know it we can slow it using various methods but people will be infected with/without masks and with/without distancing however I believe that far enough distancing (total quarantine) could stop it but to do that is pretty much impossible as we cannot do this and keep everyone alive we have too many people that need too much that is moving coast to coast just an insanely amount of chances even at microscopic odds to infect many people.
We also would need instant testing so everyone could be tested all the time to ferret out all the infected.
The problem is if any person worldwide is still infected near the end of 2 weeks the can infect someone and 2 weeks later another person this virus could survive with just one person of 300 million infected and come right back all across the country like it never left.
What we really need is a very in depth study about immunity to make absolutely sure what that entails. If we could be sure that people can become immune from exposure (infection) then herd immunity is a valid option.
If herd immunity is an option I would greatly increase hospital capacity in an area of the country at a time and let it go and then you could have one city that is "safe" and go to the next city/county/state opening up more and more till everyone has had their shot at it. those at great risk would be tested for it and then they could rejoin society. There may be millions die but with things back to normal we could "replace" them over time.
I somewhat doubt many people would desire this idea as it requires great sacrifice and willing to accept a lot of deaths and suffering but it would not take a year to get things back to normal as areas are made immune their manufacturing would go back to full power and the country would have tons of hope knowing that the city of ____ or state of _______ is now free from the virus and even if it comes back most of the people would be uneffected.

 

[Sophrosyne]

You don’t have to be at risk to get the virus. I have a friend who is a police officer—someone in very good health—who got it despite being in good health and not having any of the risk factors.

I'm not talking about being "at risk" in the sense of me not getting it at all, I'm saying I'm at lower risk both getting it and passing it on to someone who would be likely to need hospitalization.
Basically it is unlikely anyone around me would die if I got infected and infected them.

 

[Archivist]

I'm not talking about being "at risk" in the sense of me not getting it at all, I'm saying I'm at lower risk both getting it and passing it on to someone who would be likely to need hospitalization.
Basically it is unlikely anyone around me would die if I got infected and infected them.

Good reason to wear a mask.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Are you using a computer at a public library? If you can afford to pay fees for home computer access then you can afford a couple bucks for a mask. I know what Comcast charges me for access and it isn’t cheap.

I can afford a mask now but if wasn't getting unemployment I would have zero income and my bills would leave me broke in about a month so my utilities would be turned off and I could be evicted and if I am living out of my car with no money I would rather buy food than a crappy mask as masks don't prevent hunger. I know several people with businesses that if they didn't get that $1200 and have other reserves they would lose everything. It was good that the city allowed them to reopen as they were closed by the state for a month and still had to pay bills on their business with no income.

 

[loveofourlord]

I'm not in charge of this mess the only thing I can think of it herd immunity. Everything you can think of about this virus and what has been done or not you can find both negative and positive things about it a lot of conflicting information which makes it almost impossible to truly know the best thing to do.
nobody truly knows if there is any "practice" other than total isolation of an entire population on a permanent basis and not allowing anyone access till they have both been in quarantine and tested negative to ensure no possible infection. New Zealand is now this way nobody has the virus and to get in you have to quarantine 14 days. They will have to stay this way till the whole world is "cured" of the vaccine.
In the US this is not possible because we have aren't an island there is no easy way to cordon off any states other than perhaps hawaii to outwait infections. I've heard to get herd immunity it would take from 60-70% of the population to be infected and immune to the virus. I've also heard that some are now thinking that immunity to the virus may vanish after a few months which would make a permanent vaccine and herd immunity almost impossible.
My huge problem with all this mess is the outright exaggeration and lies presented like the following:
1)If everyone masks and distances we can "stop" the virus. This is an ouright lie and those in charge know it we can slow it using various methods but people will be infected with/without masks and with/without distancing however I believe that far enough distancing (total quarantine) could stop it but to do that is pretty much impossible as we cannot do this and keep everyone alive we have too many people that need too much that is moving coast to coast just an insanely amount of chances even at microscopic odds to infect many people.
We also would need instant testing so everyone could be tested all the time to ferret out all the infected.
The problem is if any person worldwide is still infected near the end of 2 weeks the can infect someone and 2 weeks later another person this virus could survive with just one person of 300 million infected and come right back all across the country like it never left.
What we really need is a very in depth study about immunity to make absolutely sure what that entails. If we could be sure that people can become immune from exposure (infection) then herd immunity is a valid option.
If herd immunity is an option I would greatly increase hospital capacity in an area of the country at a time and let it go and then you could have one city that is "safe" and go to the next city/county/state opening up more and more till everyone has had their shot at it. those at great risk would be tested for it and then they could rejoin society. There may be millions die but with things back to normal we could "replace" them over time.
I somewhat doubt many people would desire this idea as it requires great sacrifice and willing to accept a lot of deaths and suffering but it would not take a year to get things back to normal as areas are made immune their manufacturing would go back to full power and the country would have tons of hope knowing that the city of ____ or state of _______ is now free from the virus and even if it comes back most of the people would be uneffected.

Okay thats a bit better :> but still doesn't deal with the reality of it NOW, hospital capacity is currently breaking, not a possible, but is. It's not just hospital rooms, there arn't enough doctors and supplies and such to cope with all the patients. Even if the state 100% locked down under penalty of death, it's too late as there is a lag. This is what, "Open the economy." has done, 71k people tested positive, and since many states are having testing shortages, that is likly many people with serious conditions as I would hope their testing get bumped up over those that just drove into a popup testing facility.

Again your also ignoring the elephant in the room, it's not just deaths, deaths are at 1%, but some studies are showing 1 in 10 asymptomatic YOUNG people have long lasting damage to their lungs and such. Are you willing to sacrifice the health of everyone, how many of these will die younger because of complications.

We also don't know if herd immunity is even possible without a vaccine so banking everything on that is needless suffering and death for little to no gain. And when these places shutdown due to virus not even the economy will be saved.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Good reason to wear a mask.

good reason? If I am infectable I would rather get it, and get over it and no longer need to concern myself with it.