MARK OF THE BEAST - REVELATION 13-14; 17; 18

Douggg

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Please tell me brother what is the issue when the 3 and a half years = 1260 days/years and the timeline is proven to be on time? You have not proven that it is wrong and the evidence supports the timeline is correct as shown in the previous post.
It is obviously wrong because during the 42 months of Revelation 11:2 and 13.5, and the time, times, half times of Revelation 12:14, preceding Jesus return - the trumpet judgements and vials of God wrath are poured out - and none of those things have taken place.

You are saying those are 1260 historic years - but none of those things have taken place during the 1260 historic years you are claiming.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Israel in Revelation 12, is the Israel who Jesus rescues in Zechariah 14. Is that the Church? No, it is not.

And it is not the Church who went into exile for rejecting Jesus.

In Ezekiel 39:21-29, following the Armageddon feast on the dead bodies of them who try to make war on Jesus in Ezekiel 39:17-20, is Jesus Himself speaking in Ezekiel 39:21-29.

That who Israel is Revelation 12. The church is not Israel. Jesus is not talking about the church in these verses.

Ezekiel 39:
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Brother there is nothing wrong with the scirpture you have provided here. However they do not support your interpretation in defining who God's church is according to God's WORD. So what you have provided has no relevance to our discussion.

The GREEK WORD for CHURCH is ἐκκλησία; ekklēsia From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; which means a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.

So a Church is a called out people. God's saints and all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD'S WORD.

In the NEW COVENANT ISRAEL are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL *ROMANS 11:13-27 If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12.

God Church (ISRAEL) or people have always been called the BRIDE of CHRIST and we are to prepare to meet the BRIDEGROOM. God's Church (ISRAEL) have always been represented in God's WORD as either a faithful pure WOMAN of an UNFAITHFUL HARLOT when breaking God's COMMANDMENTS and not BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD.

Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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It is obviously wrong because during the 42 months of Revelation 11:2 and 13.5, and the time, times, half times of Revelation 12:14, preceding Jesus return - the trumpet judgements and vials of God wrath are poured out - and none of those things have taken place.

You are saying those are 1260 historic years - but none of those things have taken place during the 1260 historic years you are claiming.

Not at all brother your just repeating yourself now without addressing the earlier post and scriptures that disagree with you from post # 114 linked. The timeline application that we are discussing is that of DANIEL 7. The timeline works out perfectly accoding to the scriptures as shown in the previous post # 114 linked.

I am not sure why you keep referring to the REVELATION timeline when we are discussing DANIEL 7. Is there any reason for this? It seems you are mixing up your scripture passages brother. Where does anything you have said above said in the scriptures of DANIEL 7?

If your claims are not mentioned in DANIEL 7 why are you trying to make an argument that they are? Your claims here have no reference to DANIEL 7. Can you see your error here brother?

God bless
 
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Douggg

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Not at all brother your just repeating yourself now without addressing the earlier post and scriptures that disagree with you from post # 114 linked. The timeline application that we are discussing is that of DANIEL 7. The timeline works out perfectly accoding to the scriptures as shown in the previous post # 114 linked.
The time, times, half times in Daniel 7 is not independent of the the time, times, half time in Revelation 12. So the it still applies that the trumpet judgements and the vials of God wrath take place during the time, times, half time - whether in Daniel 7 or Revelation 12.

I am not sure why you keep referring to the REVELATION timeline when we are discussing DANIEL 7. Is there any reason for this? It seems you are mixing up your scripture passages brother. Where does anything you have said above said in the scriptures of DANIEL 7?

The ten kings and the little horn in Daniel 7 are end times. The time, times, half time in Daniel 7 is the second half of the 7 years of Daniel 9:27.

Revelation Chapters 6-19 are about what takes place in those 7 years.

Ezekiel 38 Gog and Magog takes place right before the 7 years begin.

Daniel 2, Daniel 7, Daniel 8, Daniel 9, Daniel 12 all end the same way - with Jesus's return.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The time, times, half times in Daniel 7 is not independent of the the time, times, half times in Revelation 12. So the it still applies that the trumpet judgements and the vials of God wrath take place during the time, times, half time - whether in Daniel 7 or Revelation 12.

Sorry Dougg that does not make any sense. Please show where this is written ino DANIEL 7 which is what we are discussing. If you cannot your claim has no merit.
 
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Douggg

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Sorry Dougg that does not make any sense. Please show where this is written ino DANIEL 7 which is what we are discussing. If you cannot your claim has no merit.
Look at how Daniel 7 ends. It is with the Kingdom of God brought to earth to be ruling Kingdom. It is in Daniel 7:26-28 and Daniel 7:14, corresponding to Daniel 2:44. That takes place when Jesus returns.

The time, times, half time is the second half of the 7 years forthcoming. SDA has taken that time, times, half time and spread it out over 1260 years, relegating it to history.

But it is a flawed interpretation SDA have, because Daniel 7 the little horn's kingdom is taken away and the Kingdom of God replacing it, having dominion over the earth.

During the time that the Kingdom of God has dominion over the nations, there will be no more war - proving that the 1260 years that SDA has applied to the time, times, half times as historical is wrong.

The time, times, half time of the little horn person is still future. It is part of the Revelation Chapter 6 - 19 timeline.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Look at how Daniel 7 ends. It is with the Kingdom of God brought to earth to be ruling Kingdom. It is in Daniel 7:26-28 and Daniel 7:14, corresponding to Daniel 2:44. That takes place when Jesus returns.

The time, times, half time is the second half of the 7 years forthcoming. SDA has taken that time, times, half time and spread it out over 1260 years, relegating it to history.

But it is a flawed interpretation SDA have, because Daniel 7 the little horn's kingdom is taken away and the Kingdom of God replacing it, having dominion over the earth.

During the time that the Kingdom of God has dominion over the nations, there will be no more war - proving that the 1260 years that SDA has applied to the time, times, half times as historical is wrong.

The time, times, half time of the little horn person is still future. It is part of the Revelation Chapter 6 - 19 timeline.

Brother this as well does not make any sense where does it say in DANIEL 2 or DANIEL 7 as you claim in your own words....
Douggg said: The time, times, half times in Daniel 7 is not independent of the the time, times, half times in Revelation 12. So the it still applies that the trumpet judgements and the vials of God wrath take place during the time, times, half time - whether in Daniel 7 or Revelation 12.

Fact is brother that it does not say this at all in Daniel 7. Your trying to read into the scriptures something that it is not saying and it only proves your interpretation of the scriptures is not correct.

Nothing that has been posted to you here is historically wrong. In fact you have seen if you read the posts provided to you that scripture interprets the scriptures so there is no private interpretation and the historical timelines are fulfilled in and demonstrated with historical references which match God's WORD perfectly.

Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you here.
 
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Douggg

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Nothing that has been posted to you here is historically wrong.
It is not whether it is historically right or wrong. It is whether it has any relevancy to the fulfillment of Daniel 7, and it does not. Daniel 7:26-27 did not take place within the claimed 1260 years of SDA historic view.

At the end of the time, times, and the dividing of time, the little horn will be judged, his kingdom taken away, consumed, destroyed. And the Kingdom of God become the ruling kingdom here on earth.

Didn't happen in the SDA 1260 day historic view.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.


27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.


28 Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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It is not whether it is historically right or wrong. It is whether it has any relevancy to the fulfillment of Daniel 7, and it does not.

Well that has no truth in it brother. There has been many posts here provided to you showing from the scriptures the fulfillment and what now is. You have simply chosen to ignore these posts and the scriptures in them that disagree with your teaching that the EU is the 4th BEAST of DANIEL 7. When asked of you how does your interpretation of DANIEL 7 fit the scriptures criterea of DANIEL 7 your not able to explain your interpretations. When asked of you what it is you disagree with and to prove it from what is share with you then you decline to respond or answer. Brother does that not worry you and show you that the relevancy of what is shared here with you?

Daniel 7:26-27 did not take place within the claimed 1260 years of SDA historic view. At the end of the time, times, and the dividing of time, the little horn will be judged, his kingdom taken away, consumed, destroyed. And the Kingdom of God become the ruling kingdom here on earth. Didn't happen in the SDA 1260 day historic view.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

28 Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.


Brother you are getting your scripture mixed up and reading into the scriptures something that it is not saying by using your own personal private interpretation. Here brother let's look at the scripture..

DANIEL 7:25 says And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

This scripture says that the Little HORN would be speaking great words AGAINST the most High and wear out the SAINTS of the most High and think to change times and laws, and they (the SAINTS) will be given into his hand until a times (360 day/years), times (2 x 360 day/years) and half a time (180 day/years) = 1260 years.

This was fulfilled perfectly by the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church reigned, between 538 AD - 1798 AD. During this time, the Papal Church persecuted the saints of God for not bowing down to her. It is said that at least 50 MILLION Christians were slaughtered during this time period of 1260 years. Take a look at some Historical quotes.

"The Waldenses were burned, they were cast into damp and horrid dungeons; they were smothered in crowds in mountain caverns, mothers and babes, and old men and women together; they were sent out in the winter night unclothed; they were hurled over the rocks; their houses and lands taken; their children were stolen to be indoctrinated into the religion that they abhorred. Thousands were hung, quartered, broken upon the wheel, or burned alive, all for the benefit of the king, and Holy See." Thompson - The Papacy and the Civil power

"The church of Rome has shed more innocent blood than any other institution that has ever existed." W.E.H. Lecky, History of the rise and influence of the spirit of rationalism in Europe, Vol.2 page32 1910

"On August 24 1572, Roman Catholics in France, by pre-arranged plan, under Jesuit influence, murdered 70,000 protestants within the space of two months. The pope rejoiced when he heard the news." Western Watchman, Nov.21, 1912

"From the birth of popery to the present time, more than 50 million of the human family have been slaughtered for the crime of heresy by the popish persecutors." John Dowling, The history of Romanism, pages 541-542

Let me just state one of the quotes above again ... "The church of Rome has shed more innocent blood than any other institution that has ever existed." ... Does that sound like antichrist to you? It does to me!

It is also interesting to note that in March 12, 2000, pope John Paul II admitted the Roman Catholic Church killed the believers. So we can clearly see that the Roman Church has the blood of the saints on her hands.

The last thing to notice about this little horn, is that it 'thinks to change times and laws'. What Law is God concerned with? His own Law of course, the ten commandments. So this power thinks to change the law of God. But notice it only 'thinks' to do this. It doesn't have the power to actually change God's laws, it can only do it in the sphere of worldly power. The Catholic Church is well known for changing the Ten Commandments of God, by removing the second commandment to do with idols, and split the tenth commandment into two to make it back up to ten. But they have done something else as well, they sought to 'change times'. What could this mean? God Commanded that we keep the Sabbath Day on the seventh day (our Saturday), but the Roman Catholic Church claim to have changed it to the first day (our Sunday). See the following quotes:

"The pope is of great authority that he can modify divine laws, since his power is not of man, but of God." Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca, papa II

"The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the scriptures, because the church had changed the Sabbath into Sunday, not by command of Christ, but by it's own authority." Canon and Tradition, page.263

To summarize, let's look at all the identifying marks that the Roman Catholic Church is the little horn power of Daniel 7:

A Little horn - The Vatican is a little country

It comes up among the other horns - The Catholic Church came to power among the ten split kingdoms of Europe

It plucks up 3 of the other horns - The Catholic Church destroyed 3 kingdoms

It is diverse from the other horns - The Papacy (Catholic Church) is a religio-political power

It speaks great things against God - The Catholic Church speaks blasphemies against God

It wears out the saints - The Catholic Church persecuted and killed millions of Christians

It thinks to change times and law - The Catholic church thinks it can change the laws of God

It ruled for 1260 years - The Catholic Church reigned between 538AD - 1798AD

No other kingdom/power matches this little horn in Daniel 7 the way the Roman Catholic Church does. It's a perfect match! Many of the great reformers knew this truth also; John Wycliffe; John Huss; Martin Luther; William Tyndale; John Wesley, Ellen White. They pointed to the Catholic Church as being this little horn antichrist.

Now note brother exactly after the 1260 years from 538 AD to 1798 AD, the French took the pope captive and the Roman Catholic Church lost it's power exactly fulfilling the scriptures from DANIEL 7:25.

DANIEL 7:25 does not say that DANIEL 7:26-28 is fulfilled exactly after the 1260 year prophecy. DANIEL 7:25 says that the little HORN

1.
shall speak great words against the most High, and
2.
shall wear out the saints of the most High, and
3. think to change times and laws: and
4.
they (the Saints) shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

This has been exactly fulfilled according to the scriptures.

You may need to go back and revist the scriptures brother.

God bless.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The early reformers knew who the little Horn and Antichrist was...

WHO DID THE EARLY REFORMERS BELIEVE THE ANTICHRIST WAS?
PART 1/2


Protestant Reformers View of Antichrist (Source Wikipedia)

See also: Great Apostasy, Protestant Reformation, and History of Protestantism

Protestant Reformers, including John Wycliffe, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Thomas Cranmer, John Thomas, John Knox, Roger Williams, Cotton Mather, Jonathan Edwards and John Wesley, as well as most Protestants of the 16th-18th centuries, felt that the Early Church had been led into the Great Apostasy by the Papacy and identified the Pope with the Antichrist.[13][14] The Centuriators of Magdeburg, a group of Lutheran scholars in Magdeburg headed by Matthias Flacius, wrote the 12-volume Magdeburg Centuries to discredit the Catholic Church and lead other Christians to recognize the Pope as the Antichrist. So, rather than expecting a single Antichrist to rule the earth during a future Tribulation period, Martin Luther, John Calvin, and other Protestant Reformers saw the Antichrist as a present feature in the world of their time, fulfilled in the Papacy.[13][15]

Among the others who interpreted the Biblical prophecy historistically there were many Church Fathers; Justin Martyr wrote about the Antichrist: "He Whom Daniel foretells would have dominion for a time and times and an half, is even now at the door".[16] Irenaeus wrote in Against Heresies about the coming of the Antichrist: "This Antichrist shall ... devastate all things ... But then, the Lord will come from Heaven on the clouds ... for the righteous".[17] Tertullian looking to the Antichrist wrote: "He is to sit in the temple of God, and boast himself as being god. In our view, he is Antichrist as taught us in both the ancient and the new prophecies; and especially by the Apostle John, who says that 'already many false-prophets are gone out into the world' as the fore-runners of Antichrist".[18] Hippolytus of Rome in his Treatise on Christ and Antichrist wrote: "As Daniel also says (in the words) 'I considered the Beast, and look! There were ten horns behind it – among which shall rise another (horn), an offshoot, and shall pluck up by the roots the three (that were) before it.' And under this, was signified none other than Antichrist."[19][20] Athanasius of Alexandria clearly hold to the historical view in his many writings; in The Deposition of Arius, he wrote: "I addressed the letter to Arius and his fellows, exhorting them to renounce his impiety.... There have gone forth in this diocese at this time certain lawless men – enemies of Christ – teaching an apostasy which one may justly suspect and designate as a forerunner of Antichrist".[21] Jerome wrote: "Says the apostle [Paul in the Second Epistle to the Thessalonians], 'Unless the Roman Empire should first be desolated, and antichrist proceed, Christ will not come.'" He also identifies the Little horn of Daniel 7:8 and 7:24-25 which "shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law" as the Papacy.[22]

Some Franciscans had considered the Emperor Frederick II a positive Antichrist who would purify the Catholic Church from opulence, riches and clergy.[23]

Some of the debated features of the Reformation's Historicist interpretations reached beyond the Book of Revelation. They included the identification of:

* the Antichrist (1 and 2 John);
* the Beast of Revelation 13;
* the Man of Sin, or Man of Lawlessness, of 2 Thessalonians 2 (2:1-12);
* the "Little horn" of Daniel 7 and 8;
* The Abomination of desolation of Daniel 9, 11, and 12; and
* the harlot of Babylon of Revelation 17.

The Protestant Reformers tended to hold the belief that the Antichrist power would be revealed so that everyone would comprehend and recognize that the Pope is the real, true Antichrist and not the vicar of Christ. Doctrinal works of literature published by the Lutherans, the Reformed Churches, the Presbyterians, the Baptists, the Anabaptists, and the Methodists contain references to the Pope as the Antichrist, including the Smalcald Articles, Article 4 (1537),[24] the Treatise on the Power and Primacy of the Pope written by Philip Melanchthon (1537),[25] the Westminster Confession, Article 25.6 (1646), and the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith, Article 26.4. In 1754, John Wesley published his Explanatory Notes Upon the New Testament, which is currently an official Doctrinal Standard of the United Methodist Church. In his notes on the Book of Revelation (chapter 13), he commented: "The whole succession of Popes from Gregory VII are undoubtedly Antichrists. Yet this hinders not, but that the last Pope in this succession will be more eminently the Antichrist, the Man of Sin, adding to that of his predecessors a peculiar degree of wickedness from the bottomless pit."[26][27]

to be continued....
 
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Douggg

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DANIEL 7:25 does not say that DANIEL 7:26-28 is fulfilled exactly after the 1260 year prophecy. DANIEL 7:25 says that the little HORN
Yes, it does, as it is all one prophecy about the time of the little horn and the end of the time, times, half times.

The person loses his power and kingdom when Jesus returns, not in 1798, because it says so in verse 26 and 27.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. [to the end of the time, times, half time - my comment]

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

The one like the son of man in verse 7:13-14 is given dominion and an everlasting kingdom, and all people, nations, and languages, should serve him. In the text.
_________________________________________________________________

The time, times, half time is in three places in the bible. The second half of the 7 years.

Daniel 7:25
Daniel 12:7
Revelation 12:14

And they all end the same way - with Jesus's return.

Are you going to tell me that Daniel 7 doesn't end with Jesus's return?

As soon as a person gets away from Daniel 2, Daniel 7, Daniel 8, Daniel 9, Daniel 12, Revelation 6-19....ending with Jesus's return, they have gone in the wrong direction.

All these prophecies you are reading about - point to one thing. Jesus's return and the Kingdom of God ruling the world. Jesus said, Seek ye first the Kingdom of God.
 
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Douggg

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The early reformers knew who the little Horn and Antichrist was...

WHO DID THE EARLY REFORMERS BELIEVE THE ANTICHRIST WAS?
PART 1/2


Protestant Reformers View of Antichrist (Source Wikipedia)

See also: Great Apostasy, Protestant Reformation, and History of Protestantism

Protestant Reformers, including John Wycliffe, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Thomas Cranmer, John Thomas, John Knox, Roger Williams, Cotton Mather, Jonathan Edwards and John Wesley, as well as most Protestants of the 16th-18th centuries, felt that the Early Church had been led into the Great Apostasy by the Papacy and identified the Pope with the Antichrist.[13][14] The Centuriators of Magdeburg, a group of Lutheran scholars in Magdeburg headed by Matthias Flacius, wrote the 12-volume Magdeburg Centuries to discredit the Catholic Church and lead other Christians to recognize the Pope as the Antichrist. So, rather than expecting a single Antichrist to rule the earth during a future Tribulation period, Martin Luther, John Calvin, and other Protestant Reformers saw the Antichrist as a present feature in the world of their time, fulfilled in the Papacy.[13][15]

Among the others who interpreted the Biblical prophecy historistically there were many Church Fathers; Justin Martyr wrote about the Antichrist: "He Whom Daniel foretells would have dominion for a time and times and an half, is even now at the door".[16] Irenaeus wrote in Against Heresies about the coming of the Antichrist: "This Antichrist shall ... devastate all things ... But then, the Lord will come from Heaven on the clouds ... for the righteous".[17] Tertullian looking to the Antichrist wrote: "He is to sit in the temple of God, and boast himself as being god. In our view, he is Antichrist as taught us in both the ancient and the new prophecies; and especially by the Apostle John, who says that 'already many false-prophets are gone out into the world' as the fore-runners of Antichrist".[18] Hippolytus of Rome in his Treatise on Christ and Antichrist wrote: "As Daniel also says (in the words) 'I considered the Beast, and look! There were ten horns behind it – among which shall rise another (horn), an offshoot, and shall pluck up by the roots the three (that were) before it.' And under this, was signified none other than Antichrist."[19][20] Athanasius of Alexandria clearly hold to the historical view in his many writings; in The Deposition of Arius, he wrote: "I addressed the letter to Arius and his fellows, exhorting them to renounce his impiety.... There have gone forth in this diocese at this time certain lawless men – enemies of Christ – teaching an apostasy which one may justly suspect and designate as a forerunner of Antichrist".[21] Jerome wrote: "Says the apostle [Paul in the Second Epistle to the Thessalonians], 'Unless the Roman Empire should first be desolated, and antichrist proceed, Christ will not come.'" He also identifies the Little horn of Daniel 7:8 and 7:24-25 which "shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law" as the Papacy.[22]

Some Franciscans had considered the Emperor Frederick II a positive Antichrist who would purify the Catholic Church from opulence, riches and clergy.[23]

Some of the debated features of the Reformation's Historicist interpretations reached beyond the Book of Revelation. They included the identification of:

* the Antichrist (1 and 2 John);
* the Beast of Revelation 13;
* the Man of Sin, or Man of Lawlessness, of 2 Thessalonians 2 (2:1-12);
* the "Little horn" of Daniel 7 and 8;
* The Abomination of desolation of Daniel 9, 11, and 12; and
* the harlot of Babylon of Revelation 17.

The Protestant Reformers tended to hold the belief that the Antichrist power would be revealed so that everyone would comprehend and recognize that the Pope is the real, true Antichrist and not the vicar of Christ. Doctrinal works of literature published by the Lutherans, the Reformed Churches, the Presbyterians, the Baptists, the Anabaptists, and the Methodists contain references to the Pope as the Antichrist, including the Smalcald Articles, Article 4 (1537),[24] the Treatise on the Power and Primacy of the Pope written by Philip Melanchthon (1537),[25] the Westminster Confession, Article 25.6 (1646), and the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith, Article 26.4. In 1754, John Wesley published his Explanatory Notes Upon the New Testament, which is currently an official Doctrinal Standard of the United Methodist Church. In his notes on the Book of Revelation (chapter 13), he commented: "The whole succession of Popes from Gregory VII are undoubtedly Antichrists. Yet this hinders not, but that the last Pope in this succession will be more eminently the Antichrist, the Man of Sin, adding to that of his predecessors a peculiar degree of wickedness from the bottomless pit."[26][27]

to be continued....
They all lived in a different era. And were responding to the events of their day, to form their eschatology. Understandable, but wrong.
 
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Douggg

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When asked of you how does your interpretation of DANIEL 7 fit the scriptures criterea of DANIEL 7 your not able to explain your interpretations. When asked of you what it is you disagree with and to prove it from what is share with you then you decline to respond or answer.
Yes, I have. But I can't tell you the person's name, because he has not emerged yet.

I have explained to you with words, scripture, and even a chart I made. The person will emerge as the leader of the EU, then when Gog/Magog takes place, right afterward he is the prince who shall come, who the Jews will believe he is their messiah.

And he is anointed the illegitimate King of Israel, making him the Antichrist. Who after around 3 years commits the transgression of desolation, revealing himself as the man of sin, ending his role as the Antichrist.

God has him killed for the transgression, and in disdain for him brings him back alive - the strong delusion in 2Thessalonians2:11 God sends to them who believe his lie in the first place.

Come back alive, the person is possessed by the unclean spirit currently in the bottomless pit, making the person as the beast, who rules the world for 42 months; his end coming when Jesus returns (Daniel 7:26-27).
296145_35c687d6d098f7f74754a071430682a2.jpeg
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Yes, I have. But I can't tell you the person's name, because he has not emerged yet.

I have explained to you with words, scripture, and even a chart I made. The person will emerge as the leader of the EU, then when Gog/Magog takes place, right afterward he is the prince who shall come, who the Jews will believe he is their messiah.

And he is anointed the illegitimate King of Israel, making him the Antichrist. Who after around 3 years commits the transgression of desolation, revealing himself as the man of sin, ending his role as the Antichrist.

God has him killed for the transgression, and in disdain for him brings him back alive - the strong delusion in 2Thessalonians2:11 God sends to them who believe his lie in the first place.

Come back alive, the person is possessed by the unclean spirit currently the bottomless pit, making the person as the beast, who rules the world for 42 months; his end coming when Jesus returns (Daniel 7:26-27).

Brother NO you haven't. Your just repeating yourself here brother and have not addressed earlier posts showing that this chart does not support the scriptures added to it. All you have posted is a pretty chart that when checked according to the scriptures does not match up the scriptures of DANIEL 7 and makes claims that do not support the scriptures added to it. When questioned and shown why this chart does not support the scriptures you ignore the posts, scriptures and questions asked of you that show the errors in the chart. Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you. Perhaps we will need to agree to disagree as you are only repeating yourself and unable to answer the posts scriptures and questions asked of you. It is ok we can agree to disagree if you like. The most important thing however is to be ready for Christs return today. Tommorrow may be too late. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Yes, it does, as it is all one prophecy about the time of the little horn and the end of the time, times, half times.

Sorry brother NO it does not. Here brother let's look at the scripture..

The time, times and half time is a timeline of the 1260 years of events outlined in DANIEL 7:25. It is specific to what it says in DANIEL 7:25 and everything that is outlined in DANIEL 7:25 which says...

DANIEL 7:25 says And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. DANIEL 7:25 does not say that DANIEL 7:26-28 is fulfilled exactly after the 1260 year prophecy. DANIEL 7:25 says that the little HORN

What is the outline of the 1260 years outlined in DANIEL 7:25?

1.
shall speak great words against the most High, and
2. shall wear out the saints of the most High, and
3. think to change times and laws: and
4. they (the Saints) shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

This has been exactly fulfilled according to the scriptures and has it's fulfillment in the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH.

You may need to go back and revist the scriptures brother. God's WORD disagrees with you. You are trying to put your own interpretation over God's WORD.

Are you going to tell me that Daniel 7 doesn't end with Jesus's return? As soon as a person gets away from Daniel 2, Daniel 7, Daniel 8, Daniel 9, Daniel 12, Revelation 6-19....ending with Jesus's return, they have gone in the wrong direction. All these prophecies you are reading about - point to one thing. Jesus's return and the Kingdom of God ruling the world. Jesus said, Seek ye first the Kingdom of God.

Now brother why would you say that Daniel 7 does not end in the 2nd coming? Where have I ever said this? Does the second coming take place exactly after the 1260 years? NO it does not as shown above. After the 1260 years the little HORN (Roman Catholic Church) no longer has control over God's saints!

DANIEL 7:25 He [Little HORN] shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they [THE SAINTS] shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

God's 1260 day/year timeline is specific to the SAINTS being given into the hands of the LITTLE HORN not the second coming!

You may need to go back and revist the scriptures brother. God's WORD disagrees with you. You are trying to put your own interpretation over God's WORD.

Hope this helps brother,

MAy God bless you as you seek him through his Word.
 
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They all lived in a different era. And were responding to the events of their day, to form their eschatology. Understandable, but wrong.

So your saying brother that all the reformers of the reformation are wrong? Yet it was God who led them in the reformation? If it was God who led them in the reformation how can you say they were wrong? Are you saying God is wrong for starting a reformation showing the reformers that the Roman Catholic church according to the scriptures is the Antichrist?
 
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WHO DID THE EARLY REFORMERS BELIEVE THE ANTICHRIST WAS?
PART 2/2


In calling the pope the "Antichrist", the early Lutherans stood in a tradition that reached back into the eleventh century. Not only dissidents and heretics but even saints had called the bishop of Rome the "Antichrist" when they wished to castigate his abuse of power. What Lutherans understood as a papal claim to unlimited authority over everything and everyone reminded them of the apocalyptic imagery of Daniel 11, a passage that even prior to the Reformation had been applied to the pope as the Antichrist of the last days.[14]

The identification of the Pope with the Antichrist was so ingrained in the Reformation Era, that Luther himself stated it repeatedly:

"This teaching [of the supremacy of the pope] shows forcefully that the Pope is the very Antichrist, who has exalted himself above, and opposed himself against Christ, because he will not permit Christians to be saved without his power, which, nevertheless, is nothing, and is neither ordained nor commanded by God".[28]

and,

"nothing else than the kingdom of Babylon and of the very Antichrist. For who is the man of sin and the son of perdition, but he who by his teaching and his ordinances increases the sin and perdition of souls in the church; while he yet sits in the church as if he were God? All these conditions have now for many ages been fulfilled by the papal tyranny."[29]

John Calvin similarly wrote:
"Though it be admitted that Rome was once the mother of all Churches, yet from the time when it began to be the seat of Antichrist it has ceased to be what it was before. Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman Pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak and whose language we adopt .. I shall briefly show that (Paul's words in II Thess. 2) are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies them to the Papacy."[30]

John Knox wrote on the Pope:
"Yea, to speak it in plain words; lest that we submit ourselves to Satan, thinking that we submit ourselves to Jesus Christ, for, as for your Roman kirk, as it is now corrupted, and the authority thereof, whereon stands the hope of your victory, I no more doubt but that it is the synagogue of Satan, and the head thereof, called the pope, to be that man of sin, of whom the apostle speaks."[31]

Thomas Cranmer on the Antichrist wrote:
"Whereof it followeth Rome to be the seat of Antichrist, and the pope to be very antichrist himself. I could prove the same by many other scriptures, old writers, and strong reasons."[32]

John Wesley, speaking of the identity given in the Bible of the Antichrist, wrote:
"In many respects, the Pope has an indisputable claim to those titles. He is, in an emphatical sense, the man of sin, as he increases all manner of sin above measure. And he is, too, properly styled, the son of perdition, as he has caused the death of numberless multitudes, both of his opposers and followers, destroyed innumerable souls, and will himself perish everlastingly. He it is that opposeth himself to the emperor, once his rightful sovereign; and that exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped - Commanding angels, and putting kings under his feet, both of whom are called gods in scripture; claiming the highest power, the highest honour; suffering himself, not once only, to be styled God or vice-God. Indeed no less is implied in his ordinary title, "Most Holy Lord," or, "Most Holy Father." So that he sitteth - Enthroned. In the temple of God - Mentioned Rev. xi, 1. Declaring himself that he is God - Claiming the prerogatives which belong to God alone."[33]

Roger Williams wrote about the Pope:
"the pretended Vicar of Christ on earth, who sits as God over the Temple of God, exalting himself not only above all that is called God, but over the souls and consciences of all his vassals, yea over the Spirit of Christ, over the Holy Spirit, yea, and God himself ... speaking against the God of heaven, thinking to change times and laws; but he is the Son of Perdition."[34]

The identification of the Roman Catholic Church as the apostate power written of in the Bible as the Antichrist became evident to many as the Reformation began, including John Wycliffe, who was well-known throughout Europe for his opposition to the doctrine and practices of the Catholic Church, which he believed had clearly deviated from the original teachings of the early Church and to be contrary to the Bible. Wycliffe himself tells (Sermones, III. 199) how he concluded that there was a great contrast between what the Church was and what it ought to be, and saw the necessity for reform. Along with John Hus, they had started the inclination toward ecclesiastical reforms of the Catholic Church.

When the Swiss Reformer Huldrych Zwingli became the pastor of the Grossmünster in Zurich (1518) he began to preach ideas on reforming the Catholic Church. Zwingli, who was a Catholic priest before he became a Reformer, often referred to the Pope as the Antichrist. He wrote: "I know that in it works the might and power of the Devil, that is, of the Antichrist".[35]

The English Reformer William Tyndale held that while the Roman Catholic realms of that age were the empire of Antichrist, any religious organization that distorted the doctrine of the Old and New Testaments also showed the work of Antichrist. In his treatise The Parable of the Wicked Mammon, he expressly rejected the established Church teaching that looked to the future for an Antichrist to rise up, and he taught that Antichrist is a present spiritual force that will be with us until the end of the age under different religious disguises from time to time.[36] Tyndale's translation of 2 Thessalonians, chapter 2, concerning the "Man of Lawlessness" reflected his understanding, but was significantly amended by later revisers,[37] including the King James Bible committee, which followed the Vulgate more closely.

Exactly as prophecy had given, in 1798 Pope Pius VI was taken prisoner by the armies of Napoleon I, and died in captivity in France, and it appeared the Papacy had been dealt a death blow, or its power taken or wounded and yet it was restored: "One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the Beast" (Revelation 13:3).

In 1870, the newly formed Kingdom of Italy annexed the remaining Papal States, depriving the Pope of his temporal power. However, the Papal rule over Italy was later restored by the Italian Fascist regime[38] (albeit on a greatly diminished scale) in 1929 as head of the Vatican City state;[38] under Mussolini's dictatorship, Roman Catholicism became the State religion of Fascist Italy[38][39] (see also Clerical fascism), and the Racial Laws were enforced to outlaw and persecute both Italian Jews[40] and Protestant Christians,[39][41][42][43] especially Evangelicals and Pentecostals.[41][42][43] Thousands of Italian Jews and a small number of Protestants died in the Nazi concentration camps.[40][43]

Today, many Protestant and Restorationist denominations still officially maintain that the Papacy is the Antichrist, such as the conservative Lutheran Churches[44][45][46] and the Seventh-day Adventists.[47][48][49][50][51] In 1988 Ian Paisley, Evangelical minister and founder of the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster, made headlines with such a statement about Pope John Paul II.[52] The Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod states about the Pope and the Catholic Church:[44]

There are two principles that mark the papacy as the Antichrist. One is that the pope takes to himself the right to rule the church that belongs only to Christ. He can make laws forbidding the marriage of priests, eating or not eating meat on Friday, birth control, divorce and remarriage, even where there are not such laws in the Bible. The second is that he teaches that salvation is not by faith alone but by faith and works. The present pope upholds and practices these principles. This marks his rule as antichristian rule in the church. All popes hold the same office over the church and promote the same antichristian belief so they all are part of the reign of the Antichrist. The Bible does not present the Antichrist as one man for one short time, but as an office held by a man through successive generations. It is a title like King of England.[53]

God bless.
 
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Douggg

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All you have posted is a pretty chart that when checked according to the scriptures does not match up the scriptures of DANIEL 7 and makes claims that do not support the scriptures added to it.
No, I have also given scripture after scripture - but you can not accept that the SDA view is wrong in spite of the text.
 
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All of them who were saying the pope/papacy was the Antichrist.
Yet it was this very teaching that the Roman Catholic Church (not the people) was the Antichrist that started the reformation. What your claiming now is the reformers of the reformation are wrong.

So do you also believe that God did not lead these reformers in the reformation? If it was God who led them in the reformation how can you say they were wrong? Are you saying God is wrong for starting the reformation showing the reformers that the Roman Catholic church according to the scriptures is the Antichrist?
 
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