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Man of Lawlessness

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Bobfeed123, Oct 23, 2021.

  1. Bobfeed123

    Bobfeed123 New Member

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    3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

    Does the Man of Lawlessness have to be a Jew?

    And the "Man of Lawlessness" will be capable of breaking every law in open public and can never be arrested right? And he will claim to be God and start a cult exalting himself and tell everyone that he is Jesus and God in human form right?

    Is there any other requirements for someone to become the "Man of Lawlessness" ?
     
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  2. Petros2015

    Petros2015 Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like Paul is saying this fellow will be capable of of counterfeit miracles at least on some scale

    9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie,

    earlier

    4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

    Those are some fairly specific requirements, hard to meet and obvious when you do. I don't feel like we've seen the like of that yet.

    People fall for it (the lies) because

    They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

    So... love the truth.
    And stay away from people who don't.
    That would be my strong advice.

    I read this chapter recently, and it was kind of funny

    2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.

    Even in Paul's day there was a disinformation campaign on the ScriberNet ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
  3. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    The man of sin is the same as the king of the north (who is Assyrian) who is also the first beast out of the sea.
     
  4. honestal

    honestal New Member Supporter

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    “We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty.” {Pope Leo XIII, Praeclara Gratulationis Publicae—The Reunion of Christendom, Rome: 1894}

    “The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth.” {Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Cities Petrus Bertanous Chapter XXVII: 218}

    “The Pope is of so great dignity, and so exalted, that he is not a mere man, but as it were God.” {Ferraris Ecclesiastical dictionary}

    “It is quite certain that Popes have never disapproved or rejected this title “Lord God the Pope” for the passage in the gloss referred to appears in the edition of the Canon Law published in Rome by Gregory XIII.” {Statement from Father A. Pereira}
     
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  5. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Satan is the man of lawlessness. The requirement would be: be the only angel who rebelled and has not been locked up yet.
     
  6. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

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    The "Man of Lawlessness" was a MAN - not a celestial being.

    While this matches one of the characteristics of what the "Man of Lawlessness" would have, it does not meet all the stated characteristics. The Pope has never denied that Christ came in the flesh, or denied the Father and the Son. John definitely listed both of these as features of an "anti-christ" in I John 2:22 and I John 3:3.

    Neither of these is mentioned in I John as being the identity of the "Anti-christ". Neither are they mentioned in the passage about the "Man of Lawlessness". This is a rather common connection that is often proposed, but it is ungrounded by scriptural support.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
  7. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    You fail to acknowledge Satan has been acting as a man who has guided the Greeks, then the Romans, and has been behind the RCC setting up antichrists for almost 2500 years. That is the point of 2 Thessalonians 2. Paul even claimed Satan was behind this version of Satan. No man could pull of this act for 2500 years, but Satan has.

    Besides there will be no human AC period. The image is going to be the beast that you all are claiming as an AC. John distinctly avoids the title AC and uses "the beast" as the term for this final concocted being of Satan.

    The only human involved is the FP. He will come on the scene out of the Nations and governments at the appropriate time. It will be during the week of the sounding of the 7th Trumpet at the latest. It may be earlier in the Thunders, but John was told not to write down the Thunders. We do not know what they entail.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
  8. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This is a very obscure text. This is also delivered to the saints of that time. Paul also indicates that he is reminding them of what he has already told them and most importantly that the " lawlessness" was already among them.
    It appears that during their time there were individuals or an individual claiming that the day of the Lord has already come, meaning, they claimed to be Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Paul is also indicating that there are many who have fallen away from the faith due to following this false Christ.
    It is also important to note that The "day of the Lord" is used many times in the OT depicting temporal judgment against a city or a nation. The judgment against Jerusalem had not arrived so a false Christ would in fact deceive those weak in the faith and therefore not heed the words of Jesus Christ of Nazareth to flee to the mountains.
    My take anyway....
     
  9. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

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    I did not include the rest of your sentence above, but I do acknowledge that Satan as the "Prince of this world" was definitely operating behind the scenes in the history of world empires - just not as a "man". Different species of created beings entirely.

    Satan's influence on the world's empires in the past is part of the history of the former "divine council" of the angelic "Watchers" program that God set up over the nations after the flood in the OT days of Peleg. Righteous angels of this "divine council" who were charged with bringing God's plans for the nations into fruition were opposed by unrighteous angels. Satan as an angelic being wanted to disrupt those plans for mankind's future.

    But this threat from unrighteous angels working behind the scenes is not something that you and I need worry about anymore. God through Paul told the believers in Romans 16:20 that He was going to crush Satan under their feet "shortly". The "divine council" was also disbanded as an institution back in AD 70, because Hebrews 2:5 said that "unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak." The world coming in the near future for the Hebrews believers was not going to be under the supervision and oversight of the angelic "divine council" anymore. Instead of celestial beings, God had designed for believers in the New Covenant Ages, as His ambassadors, to carry the Holy Spirit within them to every nation themselves, and multiply the kingdom of God by humanity influenced by the indwelling Holy Spirit.

    I have never stated that any of the three different Beasts were the single individual man who was the Anti-christ. That single Anti-christ individual operated at the same time as those different Beasts were in existence, but it was not the same as those different characters in this drama.

    And you propose that the False Prophet entity will be operating independently in our future, when scripture specifically says that it would perform those signs "in the sight of the Beast" - (enopion, which meant in the very presence and eyesight of that Sea Beast. They were contemporaries operating in direct visual contact with each other.)

    Yes, this was the error of Hymenaeus and Philetus, who were teaching that Christ's coming and the resurrection had already occurred. They were partly right in one respect, because the many Matthew 27:52-53 resurrected saints who were "seen of many" were undoubtedly examples of physical resurrection still among them at that time. This was so astounding an event that these two teachers were mistakenly presuming that it was the only resurrection that would ever happen.

    But this is different from those who would be claiming to be the Messiah. PLEASE NOTE: They would not claim that they were Jesus Christ of Nazareth, as you have proposed above. They would claim to be the "MESSIAH", or "THE CHRIST": i.e., the "Messiah the Prince" prophesied by Daniel 9:25 that should come at the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy. This anchors that prophecy of the "Anti-christ" to the first-century days - as close to the prophesied AD 30 date as possible. This was in order for their deception to fool those who were looking for the fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy for Messiah the Prince's coming to Israel at that very specific year on the calendar. This removes the fulfillment of the Anti-christ individual from times in OUR future. That would be WAAAAAY too far removed from Daniel's prophesied appearance of Christ the Messiah's first coming to His people in AD 30.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
  10. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    The man of sin/lawlessness is not the anti-christ, they are different people.


    “Then the king shall do according to his own will: he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done.

    Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
     
  11. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

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    This is conflating a "king" character (appearing in Daniel 11:36 just after Antiochus Epiphanes did battle with the Maccabean forces), with a later "Anti-christ" individual, who would emerge to power in Paul's days in II Thess 2. These were two different characters entirely, separated by hundreds of years, though they would both attempt to unduly exalt themselves.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
  12. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    I keep telling y'all, the man of sin will be a transhuman.
     
  13. IntriKate

    IntriKate Active Member

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    Whats that?
     
  14. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    That is a hybrid person, partly iron and partly clay.
     
  15. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

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    You are missing the symbolism that Daniel's vision portrayed. Daniel knew that Isaiah 64:8 had once stated of the nation of Israel , "But now, O Lord, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand."

    To assure its own survival, that "clay" of the nation of ethnic Israel would attempt to blend itself with the "iron" of the fourth kingdom - of the Roman empire. This was a mixture that never blended together well, as evidenced by the spirit of the Zealot rebellion against Roman governance, which persisted as that "mystery of iniquity" that was already working in Paul's days (II Thess. 2:7), and then broke out in open revolt in AD 66.
     
  16. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    Respectfully brother, this is just your understanding and you do not even want to consider the possibility that I could be right.Look at the technology that is so rapidly developing. Look at the tendency of people (clay) to want to augment themselves and their children to be stronger, healthier, and more intelligent. Today there is gene editing and robotics that is already in use by some countries' military.I think you may be the one that is misunderstanding Daniel. At least research transhumanism to see what mad scientists are doing
     
  17. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

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    Also respectfully, I would say that Paul was on target that this "Antichrist" individual was already in existence at the time he was writing, being withheld by a person who was "restraining" his appearing openly on the scene at that time. Paul did not have transhumanism in mind as he wrote that statement of a current situation that was then developing in his days.
     
  18. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    OK, Paul was speaking of satan, or the Antichrist spirit that was and is currently in the world today. He is satan who will possess the man of sin in the future.
     
  19. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

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    It's true that Satan had a large share of the deception taking place in Paul's day, working behind the scenes. We are told that at that time, Satan was "walking about as a roaring lion, seeking those whom he could devour". That was Satan's "short time" of operating deceptively in this world, as John in Revelation 12:12 said was currently then in progress in those days. Bad news for them. However, that does not equal the same bad news for us today.

    That is because Paul also said that God was going to crush Satan under the feet of the saints "shortly" - in THOSE DAYS. Satan is no longer around to add his deception to whatever deception is inherent within the hearts of mankind on its own. You speak of a Satanic threat that will never materialize in the future, because God has already "slain the dragon that is in the sea" according to Isaiah 27:1-2. Humanity has no one to blame but themselves for any current deception taking place in the world. Satan may have jumpstarted deception originally in the Garden of Eden, but we have kept the ball rolling all by ourselves since his AD 70 destruction in Jerusalem's Lake of Fire.

    The "Anti-christ" spirit was not just indicative of someone acting against Christ. It was a presentation of a substitute for Christ the Messiah - a "pseudo-Christ", or a "false Christ" in imitation of the real thing, which Jesus was. Those "false Christs" in Paul's days were pretending that Christ had not already become manifested in the flesh in the person of Jesus of Nazareth, in fulfillment of the Daniel 9:25 prophecy.
     
  20. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    "As" and "being" is the point. Satan is not a man (being). Satan has constantly been appearing as a man for 2500 years. He started with the Greeks and fed them their mythology, then moved to philosophy, and introduced science (western knowledge). Moving on to the Romans, he ended up in Rome. Still there today as far as we know. I would say part man and part beast.

    "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

    The Greeks painted all their character "gods" in human form. Paul was relating to that point. They are not gods. They are not men. They are not even angels. Greek mythology is just the imagination of Satan. Yet Satan even portrayed himself into their mythology. This part was not just fake or imaginary. His seat of authority was in Pergamos until the Greeks sold it to the Romans. The early corrupted church at Rome silenced any one who dared point these facts out. The time for ousting this portrayal is still future.

    Satan can not reveal his hand, or it would prove God's Word is true. Proving God's Word is true, would upset his science he has developed over the last 2500 years as fake.

    He is waiting until the deception becomes permanent at the Second Coming. Not permanent in fact, but permanent in humans ability to make a choice.

    "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
     
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