Lust: Is it possible to control all your thoughts?

[Zebra1552]

Lust is inordinate desire, to have, and enjoy. So what is not yours...

It is merely a desire to TAKE what isn't yours.

What is loving and not lustful about masturbation?

What is lustful and not loving about masturbation?

Isaiah 56, the eunuch must put his hand to the will of God, Jesus did this.

Not all are called to be eunuchs.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

My second quote is out of the context of the paragraph it is in. I then go on to agree, that man does not judge man, but that we have theology in common, called moral theology and traditions for sanctification.

Opinion, and philosophy can be sure. You can say more than "yes" or "no".

We have a silent Bible on several important contemporary moral issues, but we know what love is, and that it does no harm... we must consider our hearts secret thoughts and others, and the temple nature of our bodies, and the next life.

I am saying, lust and love are adversaries. Jesus did not touch. That the Holy Spirit convicts us to one Gospel and it's values, in different ways per person, over many years to holiness or sanctification after the one living Jesus Christ.

Jaws, lust for pleasure motivates masturbation in my view. It serves no just purpose. Probably moved by looking at someone lustfully. Recalling.

Bible scholars call it Onanism.

It is not kind, committed, patient, rejoicing in the betterment for a friend... It injures the body. Moses law says the product outside the body, is unclean. The action is foul.

Paul taught that staying single is the better choice for anyone who can and has the desire.

 

[ghendricks63]

My second quote is out of the context of the paragraph it is in. I then go on to agree, that man does not judge man, but that we have theology in common, called moral theology and traditions for sanctification.

Opinion, and philosophy can be sure. You can say more than "yes" or "no".

We have a silent Bible on several important contemporary moral issues, but we know what love is, and that it does no harm... we must consider our hearts secret thoughts and others, and the temple nature of our bodies, and the next life.

I am saying, lust and love are adversaries. Jesus did not touch. That the Holy Spirit convicts us to one Gospel and it's values, in different ways per person, over many years to holiness or sanctification after the one living Jesus Christ.

Indeed lust and love are adversaries. But masturbation is not lust. I am saying masturbation and love are not adversaries. You can not make a scriptural case that masturbation "does harm" and is therefore at odds with love. And no matter how distasteful you find the thought of Jesus masturbating...you most certainly can not declare that it did not happen. (There are many private things we do that are distasteful to think of Christ doing them...and yet we know His bobdy functioned like ours.) You don't know any more than I do so why make declarative statements without anything to base them on? He may have been like a eunich with no sexual desire...but I find no reason in scrpture to assume that especially since we know He was tempted in all ways as we are. Since I firmly believe masturbation is NOT sinful...there is absolutely no way for me to presume that he did not do it. In fact, I believe it would have been an aid to Him in dealing with temptation.

It seems to me that this sex negative hysteria so common in the church causes many to create completely indefensable positions regarding the nature and use of this wonderful gift from God.

 

[ghendricks63]

Jaws, lust for pleasure motivates masturbation in my view. It serves no just purpose. Probably moved by looking at someone lustfully. Recalling.

Bible scholars call it Onanism.

It is not kind, committed, patient, rejoicing in the betterment for a friend... It injures the body. Moses law says the product outside the body, is unclean. The action is foul.

I am trying not to be too unkind here, but this is pure nonsense.

You are making leaps of assumption and mixing cleanliness laws with ethical morality in ways clearly not warranted by scripture. And of course the term "Onanism" is a complete pollution of scripture since the account of Onan had absolutely NOTHING to do with masturbation.

 

[visionary]

Indeed lust and love are adversaries. But masturbation is not lust. I am saying masturbation and love are not adversaries. You can not make a scriptural case that masturbation "does harm" and is therefore at odds with love. And no matter how distasteful you find the thought of Jesus masturbating...you most certainly can not declare that it did not happen. (There are many private things we do that are distasteful to think of Christ doing them...and yet we know His bobdy functioned like ours.) You don't know any more than I do so why make declarative statements without anything to base them on? He may have been like a eunich with no sexual desire...but I find no reason in scrpture to assume that especially since we know He was tempted in all ways as we are. Since I firmly believe masturbation is NOT sinful...there is absolutely no way for me to presume that he did not do it. In fact, I believe it would have been an aid to Him in dealing with temptation.

It seems to me that this sex negative hysteria so common in the church causes many to create completely indefensable positions regarding the nature and use of this wonderful gift from God.

1 Cor. 6:18, "Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body."

How many sins do you know that are against your own body... satisfying self..

 

[ghendricks63]

1 Cor. 6:18, "Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body."

How many sins do you know that are against your own body... satisfying self..

This is absolutely an incorrect interpretation of this verse.

First of all the full context is sexual sin...NOT masturbation. The illustration given was sex with a prostitute. No where does the bible make the claim that all satisfying of self is sinful...quite the opposite in fact.

Delight yourself in the LORD and he will give you the desires of your heart.
Psalm 37:4

who satisfies your desires with good things so that your youth is renewed like the eagle’s.
Psalm 103:5

He fulfills the desires of those who fear him; he hears their cry and saves them.
Psalm 145:19

The sluggard craves and gets nothing, but the desires of the diligent are fully satisfied.
Proverbs 13:4

I fully recognize that there are many desires the bible calls sinful...but satisfying one's self is not a sinful desire. Indeed why would God satisfy our desires if this action would be sinful for us? In the follwoing reference we are told to even overlook theft when it is to satisfy a tremendous need.

Men do not despise a thief if he steals to satisfy his hunger when he is starving.
Proverbs 6:30

Again...there is absolutely no scriptural basis for calling masturbation either harmful or a sin against your own body. (Actually medical science has shown that NOT masturbating may cause men harm later in life)And trying to bend a scripture into service for a purpose for which it was not intended will not make it so.

 

[visionary]

This is absolutely an incorrect interpretation of this verse.

First of all the full context is sexual sin...NOT masturbation. The illustration given was sex with a prostitute. No where does the bible make the claim that all satisfying of self is sinful...quite the opposite in fact.

Delight yourself in the LORD and he will give you the desires of your heart.
Psalm 37:4

who satisfies your desires with good things so that your youth is renewed like the eagle’s.
Psalm 103:5

He fulfills the desires of those who fear him; he hears their cry and saves them.
Psalm 145:19

The sluggard craves and gets nothing, but the desires of the diligent are fully satisfied.
Proverbs 13:4

I fully recognize that there are many desires the bible calls sinful...but satisfying one's self is not a sinful desire. Indeed why would God satisfy our desires if this action would be sinful for us? In the follwoing reference we are told to even overlook theft when it is to satisfy a tremendous need.

Men do not despise a thief if he steals to satisfy his hunger when he is starving.
Proverbs 6:30

Again...there is absolutely no scriptural basis for calling masturbation either harmful or a sin against your own body. (Actually medical science has shown that NOT masturbating may cause men harm later in life)And trying to bend a scripture into service for a purpose for which it was not intended will not make it so.

So masturbation is the desire of your heart.. ??

 

[ghendricks63]

So masturbation is the desire of your heart.. ??

Great question. Since sexual desire was clearly hard wired into us by God's design, and since He made the declaration that all that He created was good, I would answer strongly in the affirmative. Yes..masturbation can be a desire of the heart. No need for you to declare as evil that which God declared as good.

Now if your argument that the only desires we are allowed to satisfy are the most spiritually lofty, than virtually all of the satisfying pleasures in life (given by God) will not be met. You will likely become a staving and destitute pauper. It is silly to believe God intends that we forfeit EVERY earthly pleasure when He has provided them for us. Only the pursuit of pleasure in excess, in a way that hinders our relationship with God and others, is sinful.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Genesis does not just say God gave us sexual desire, but a craving for the opposite sex after the fall.

Onan threw away his seed.

The Holy Spirit, never moves people to touch and the Bible does not refer to it in the fight against sin. What just purpose does it serve? Only better a wrong than fornicating.

If something done is preferred to be kept secret, it can indicate a fault in it, a bit of shame.

I agree with the OP being it about overcoming rather than justifying.

 

[visionary]

Great question. Since sexual desire was clearly hard wired into us by God's design, and since He made the declaration that all that He created was good, I would answer strongly in the affirmative. Yes..masturbation can be a desire of the heart. No need for you to declare as evil that which God declared as good.

Now if your argument that the only desires we are allowed to satisfy are the most spiritually lofty, than virtually all of the satisfying pleasures in life (given by God) will not be met. You will likely become a staving and destitute pauper. It is silly to believe God intends that we forfeit EVERY earthly pleasure when He has provided them for us. Only the pursuit of pleasure in excess, in a way that hinders our relationship with God and others, is sinful.

Have you prayed about this... like during the event ... giving Glory to God..??

 

[ghendricks63]

Genesis does not just say God gave us sexual desire, but a craving for the opposite sex after the fall.

Onan threw away his seed.

The Holy Spirit, never moves people to touch and the Bible does not refer to it in the fight against sin. What just purpose does it serve? Only better a wrong than fornicating.

If something done is preferred to be kept secret, it can indicate a fault in it, a bit of shame.

I agree with the OP being it about overcoming rather than justifying.

There is a huge difference between modesty and shame. The sexual desire is not a result of the fall. God declared that it was not good that man be alone before the fall...not after. The view that sexuality is a result of sin is a gross perversion of what God created. Your opinion is noted. You are entitled to it. Your claims of scriptural support for your opinion however are unfounded and as such I reject your opinion completely.

I do not justify...I embrace. There is no need for justification for that which God has provided.

 

[ghendricks63]

Have you prayed about this... like during the event ... giving Glory to God..??

Is your intent to imply that such an action would bring about shame?

You really need to pay attention to what I am saying. There is no sin or shame in masturbation or sexual desire. It is pure and God given.

 

[visionary]

Is your intent to imply that such an action would bring about shame?

You really need to pay attention to what I am saying. There is no sin or shame in masturbation or sexual desire. It is pure and God given.

And you need to pay attention to God and how He feels.. and the best way to do that .. is while you are doing it... does it give Glory to God? Are you in prayer during the event and praising God?

 

[ghendricks63]

And you need to pay attention to God and how He feels.. and the best way to do that .. is while you are doing it... does it give Glory to God? Are you in prayer during the event and praising God?

OK Now I am really curious. When you defacate...are you in prayer during the event and praising God?

God gave us the beauty of sexuality and it is celebrated in a great many ways in scripture. I often praise Him for such a beautiful gift. In fact I praise Him for masturbation as I believe it is an incredibly helpful practice for many reasons. It brings us more in tune with our bodies. It brings us more in tune with our creator. It helps us in our quest to not be controlled by sexual desire but rather to control it and use it in ways pleasing to God. It has health benefits that we are still discovering.

My creator is far wiser than you or I and I do not believe it is proper to question Him about the nature of His creation. God is the author of sexuality and taught us to celebrate and give Him the praise for it, and that is exactly what I do.

 

[visionary]

OK Now I am really curious. When you defacate...are you in prayer during the event and praising God?

God gave is the beauty of sexuality and it is celebrated in a great many ways in scripture. I often praise Him for such a beautiful gift. In fact I praise Him for masturbation as I believe it is an incredibly helpful practice for many reasons. It brings us more in tuen with our bodies. It brings us more in tune with our creator. It helps us in our quest to not be controlled by sexual desire but rather to control it and use it in ways pleasing to God. It has health benefits that we are still discovering.

My creator is far wiser than you or I and I do not believe it is proper to question Him about the nature of His creation. God is the author of sexuality and taught us to celebrate and give Him the praise for it, and that is exactly what I do.

I pray without ceasing... and I am always keeping the temple [this body and mind] ever before Him, looking to honor Him.

 

[ghendricks63]

I pray without ceasing... and I am always keeping the temple [this body and mind] ever before Him, looking to honor Him.

And yet you seem to believe that I do not do the same. Accepting His gift with praise in no way dishonors Him, in fact it is an expression of honor to Him.

To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.
Titus 1:15

I do not quote this verse to imply you are corrupted...but I do believe it is corrupted teaching which holds your heart hostage and therefore blinds you to the purity of your own body.

 

[visionary]

And yet you seem to believe that I do not do the same. Accepting His gift with praise in no way dishonors Him, in fact it is an expression of honor to Him.

To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.
Titus 1:15

I do not quote this verse to imply you are corrupted...but I do believe it is corrupted teaching which holds your heart hostage and therefore blinds you to the purity of your own body.

and I am persuaded that only God can reveal Himself and His desires for the way you handle His temple [your body and mind]... thus He picked the perfect verse to bring to your mind.

 

[ghendricks63]

and I am persuaded that only God can reveal Himself and His desires for the way you handle His temple [your body and mind]... thus He picked the perfect verse to bring to your mind.

Wonderful. Then we are in agreement after all.

 

[ghendricks63]

I feel sorry for you, you are so deceived in your thinking, Is touching yourself a sexual act or not? I can't imagine anyone masterbating without lust in their heart or mind, you have the idea that you will not be judged for your thoughts

You are welcome I suppose to embrace legalism and call all sorts of things sinful which God did not. I will have none of it. Sexual thought is NOT LUST, no matter how many times you declare otherwise.

I have no need of your pity as I know my freedoms in Christ.

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
Galatians 5:1

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

As a man thinks in his heart so shall he be. Solomon.

In the Gospel Jesus says, that if a man looks at a women lustfully, he has already committed adultery with her, in his heart.

Solomon also said: "Watch over your heart for here are the wellsprings of life."

To love God with all your heart, and to love your neigbhour you must be from the heart, clean and warm, eventually. Otherwise you can't enter into God's presence when you die. Only the Holy Spirit can do the saving work within.