Lies about the Sabbath.

[LarryP2]

It just isn't necessary. The emphasis I made in my post focused on how the officially sanctioned publication erased God's rest and replaced it with the Sabbath. This is a foundational departure from the Gospel, and the symptoms built on sand are just paper wrapping over poo. It already failed the smell test, and there isn't anything that can cover that up.

Psalm 11:3
If the foundations are destroyed, What can the righteous do?​

I have started another thread on the impossibility of keeping the Sabbath in a modern society. Even if the Gospel did not exist, the 4th Commandment on its face prohibits somebody working for you on the Sabbath. Each of the Sabbath proponents that come onto this site demanding that Christians be bound by the Sabbath, pointedly refuse to be bound by it themselves. Each alleged "Sabbath Keeper" has hundreds of thousands, if not millions of "manservants" and "maidservants" "working" for them on every Sabbath. That one could live in a modern society and Keep the Sabbath is just an elaborate and dishonest fairy tale.

Sabbath Keeping exists for one reason: To preen and strut with self-righteous gloating. The First Century Church Fathers had a very succinct and blunt name for Sabbath Keepers: Hypocrites.

 

[LarryP2]

The Sabbath is the one that is ignored not the resurrection.

How can the two things be compared in the same sentence. The Resurrection is so much more vastly important, the Sabbath is like not even on the radar. It is not even on planet earth by comparison. The Sabbath as used most of the time is used to denigrate and distract from the Resurrection.

 

[from scratch]

I have started another thread on the impossibility of keeping the Sabbath in a modern society. Even if the Gospel did not exist, the 4th Commandment on its face prohibits somebody working for you on the Sabbath. Each of the Sabbath proponents that come onto this site demanding that Christians be bound by the Sabbath, pointedly refuse to be bound by it themselves. Each alleged "Sabbath Keeper" has hundreds of thousands, if not millions of "manservants" and "maidservants" "working" for them on every Sabbath. That one could live in a modern society and Keep the Sabbath is just an elaborate and dishonest fairy tale.

Sabbath Keeping exists for one reason: To preen and strut with self-righteous gloating. The First Century Church Fathers had a very succinct and blunt name for Sabbath Keepers: Hypocrites.

I suppose its possible. The problem is its highly impractical these days.

I live in the country. Its very easy for me to go no where. I don't mind staying home at all. In fact I love it!

I can use the day of preparation and disconnect from the whole world. If I have anything in the fridge or freezer, I can put those items in an ice chest.

I have no land line phone or net service. The phone doesn't ring when its turned off.

I can have a sawdust toilet.

If I need a heater I can have a fire going in the stove. Black Jack wood burns long and hot. I can use thermal mass to store radiant heat. I live in the south, so its not all that hard. I'm all that addicted to air conditioning.

I think I've covered all the conveniences.

Its very doable. It just extremely inconvenient and impractical. Besides we're very self centered and selfish in our modern society.

 

[from scratch]

The Sabbath is the one that is ignored not the resurrection.

Rightfully so. The Bible supports such abandonment both from the prophets and God Himself. But never mind both are wrong.

Oh wait there're more who do such as the Apostles.

 

[LarryP2]

I suppose its possible. The problem is its highly impractical these days.

I live in the country. Its very easy for me to go no where. I don't mind staying home at all. In fact I love it!

I can use the day of preparation and disconnect from the whole world. If I have anything in the fridge or freezer, I can put those items in an ice chest.

I have no land line phone or net service. The phone doesn't ring when its turned off.

I can have a sawdust toilet.

If I need a heater I can have a fire going in the stove. Black Jack wood burns long and hot. I can use thermal mass to store radiant heat. I live in the south, so its not all that hard. I'm all that addicted to air conditioning.

I think I've covered all the conveniences.

Its very doable. It just extremely inconvenient and impractical. Besides we're very self centered and selfish in our modern society.

Mail delivery on Sabbath? I get mail every saturday. When I buy stamps I pay towards their salary. I pay taxes so that pays for them to work on Saturday.

The power company people are still working, even if you use no power. When you pay your bill, you are paying the salaries for people who will work on Saturday. Phone company people work 24/7, whether or not your phone is on. You pay the bill, it pays the salary of people working on Saturday.

Government Employees, especially in Washington DC, work every Saturday. You pay taxes, they are your "manservant" and "maidservant." People out in Submarines and aircraft carriers are protecting you from foreign enemies....24/7. Air Force guys generally work ever Sabbath. You pay their salaries, they are YOUR manservants.

 

[from scratch]

The problem is not that Adventist are incorrect on they views of the Sabbath and the ten commandments but that the majority christian world wants nothing to do with God's true requirements.
Here is a quote from Pope Francis Nov. 2013 in Spectrum Magazine entitled: Pope Francis’ Message to the SDA Church
I prefer a Church which is bruised, hurting and dirty because it has been out on the streets, rather than a Church which is unhealthy from being confined and from clinging to its own security. I do not want a Church concerned with being at the center and then ends by being caught up in a web of obsessions and procedures. … In her ongoing discernment, the Church can also come to see that certain customs not directly connected to the heart of the Gospel, even some which have deep historical roots, are no longer properly understood and appreciated. Some of these customs may be beautiful, but they no longer serve as means of communicating the Gospel. We should not be afraid to re-examine them. At the same time, the Church has rules or precepts which may have been quite effective in their time, but no longer have the same usefulness for directing and shaping people’s lives."
I highlighted a section. This I see as the heart of the matter, like the Sabbath who's roots go back to creation, are not now wanted by the majority. Not that it is not required by God but that we don't want it.

Requirements of the law or those of grace? You can't have them both because they negate each other. And my buddy Paul sways so in Gal 5:4.

 

[LarryP2]

This shows that the Sabbath was a regional, temporary command for Israel and not for the world:

From: TOAMREALTY@aol.com [mailto:TOAMREALTY@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 7:01 PM
Subject: Sabbath
Interesting problem in Alaska ....according to the officious SDA sunset calculator, on Friday eve, May 30th, in Prudhoe Bay, Alaska, the sun set below the horizon, bringing with it the Jewish Shabbat, at 11:38 PM, almost midnight. Note: AK is so far west, it is on Hawaiian time!!! Here is the quote:
Calculations for:
Longitude: -148.34000
Latitude: 70.27000 Prudhoe Bay, Alaska
Time Zone: Hawaiian Standard Time, HST
Date: 5/30/03 Friday
Sunrise: 0:07am HST (sunrise Friday morning)
Sunset: 11:38pm HST (sunset, Friday night, becoming sabbath)
Next, we find sunrise on Sabbath, May 31st, actually starts before midnight Friday night!!! and el sol invictus stays up all day Sabbath, and into Sabbath night, and into Sunday morning, and into Sunday night, for the next two months!!!!! 124
Date: 5/31/03
Sunrise: Sun above horizon HST
Sunset: Sun above horizon HST (meaning the sun never sets!!!! ) meaning: if you live and
work in Prudhoe Bay, Alaska, extracting dino remains buried and liquified by Noah's flood less than 4500 years ago, you have a problem!!!!! (no!! dummy!! not the recent age of the earth!!!!)... you have to quit working!!! Because on Friday night, May 30th, when the sun went down at 1l:38, bringing in the holy
Lord's day, you had to stop working, thou, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and all the strangers within thy igloo. But the sun came up again on Sabbath just a few minutes later, but never went down after that!!!
As I scribble this nonsense it is still Sabbath in Prudhoe Bay...cause the sun never went down....no Saturday sunset. So if you believe literally that you must keep sabbath from sunset on Friday night to Sabbath sunset.....the next day, Sabbath, did NOT have a sunset this summer!!! Won't be a sunset for another two months!!!!! So you are faced with keeping Sabbath for two months straight, and giving up your job with Exxon!!!! Unless of course, you
are the camp padre, trying to spread the word that black gold comes from dead dinos who missed the ark, or in the medical profession raking in piles of dough and salving your conscience by paying plenty of tithe to keep the hired-archy gainfully employed....

 

[from scratch]

It isn't the individual members who are at fault. It is the official policy of the SDA church to bear false witness.

Which we've known all along. I only deleted most of your post because I wanted no mistake about what I was responding to. I responded and quoted because its a true fact. There have been discussions on the SDA board by them about the dishonesty of the SDA organization.

 

[from scratch]

There should be no doubt that Adventism teaches Sabbath-Keeping is the method of Salvation. They couldn't be any clearer. There is NOTHING on that page that equivocates: There is NOTHING there that suggests that the Sabbath and the Resurrection are somehow compatible. There is NOTHING that suggests the Sabbath leads to an enhanced understanding or appreciation of the Resurrection.

NOTHING.

It is a clear and unwitting endorsement of the Apostles, who abandoned Sabbath Keeping in the first year after the Resurrection, and began worshiping on Sunday and commemorating Easter. Any Christian that reads that page should be sickened and appalled.

The Resurrection and the Sabbath do not mix.

VictorC: Review the entire lists of do's and don'ts on that webpage. It is howlingly and hilariously hypocritical and completely deaf to their own silliness. Some obvious laughable rules:

1). Big distinction between Adventists who work in Adventist hospitals, versus Adventists who work in identical non-Adventist hospitals. The rank and hilarious hypocrisy fairly oozes out of the self-serving and utterly corrupt analysis. If you are working in and Adventist hospital, passing out medications is fine. Non-Adventist? No Way. And since many non-Adventist hospitals are public entities, Adventists are paying the salaries of people who deliberate work on the Sabbath and break it wholesale. Their paid "employees" are dong "work" that violates the Sabbath;

2). No thought whatsoever is given to the concept that Sabbath Keeping in a modern advanced western democracy is just impossible. It should be painfully-obvious that Sabbath Keeping is totally impossible outside of an agrarian, homogeneous group of distinctive people that share cultural uniqueness. Like who it was actually given to: The Israelites. To keep the Sabbath really does mean shutting down the entire society and everyone in it being as close to motionless as possible. There are pockets of Haridem in Israel that succeed better than anybody else could dream of doing in America. Just don't let them catch you driving (they will throw big rocks at your car); using a cellphone; or using electricity in your house (they go around with binoculars to see if your electric meter is spinning, indicating any usage).

Seventh Day Adventists hypocritically - without ever thinking about the extraordinary irony of their hypocrisy - each pay for THOUSANDS, if not TENS OF THOUSANDS of employees working for them every Sabbath: Police, municipal utilities, ANYONE that works in a public employment situation where work is frequently brought home to work on the weekends. Probably just in the Washington DC area alone, Adventists each contribute to the salaries of likely hundreds of thousands of governmental employees working on the Sabbath. Power Company, electrical company, Internet providers, Natural Gas company.....the list goes on and on. That they IMAGINE they are "keeping the Sabbath" could not be more delusional. Each Adventist pays for hundreds of thousands of soldiers, air force employees, sailors on ships that are employed keeping them safe, who work every single Sabbath. The average Adventist has more paid employees working on the Sabbath than the staffs of ancient Kings and Queens, or even the Egyptian Pharaohs when they were at the height of their power, when thousands of servants were waiting on them hand and foot. Adventists have HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of paid employees (that they pay through their tax dollars) working every single Sabbath. That they are so self-righteous and delusional they think nobody can see through their laughable farce is just remarkable. Among those of who the law was written for, the Sabbath is taken very seriously, unlike the laughable Adventist farce:

"They also permit walking past a house with a motion sensor which switches on a light if the street is already well-lit (not of benefit), but not if it is dark."
Electricity on Shabbat in Jewish law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That fact has also been freely admitted here at CF in the GT section.

 

[from scratch]

Mail delivery on Sabbath? I get mail every saturday. When I buy stamps I pay towards their salary. I pay taxes so that pays for them to work on Saturday.

Not in Loma Linda,CA. Besides all I have to do to not participate is lock or remove the receptacle. I can't control what others do.

The power company people are still working, even if you use no power. When you pay your bill, you are paying the salaries for people who will work on Saturday. Phone company people work 24/7, whether or not your phone is on. You pay the bill, it pays the salary of people working on Saturday.

Easily solvable - be off grid. Many these days are. I've considered. My compost guru had them take out the delivery means. Yes they even had them take the poles.

Government Employees, especially in Washington DC, work every Saturday. You pay taxes, they are your "manservant" and "maidservant." People out in Submarines and aircraft carriers are protecting you from foreign enemies....24/7. Air Force guys generally work ever Sabbath. You pay their salaries, they are YOUR manservants.

No I don't pay income taxes anymore. I haven't figured out a way to completely avoid those yet. But I'm thinking. I probably means I'd have to give up all services such as the net. But doable. The net is the most valuable thing I currently use. I'm a perfect candidate for being a full fledged hermit. The values our society holds just don't appeal to me.

 

[Elder 111]

How can the two things be compared in the same sentence. The Resurrection is so much more vastly important, the Sabbath is like not even on the radar. It is not even on planet earth by comparison. The Sabbath as used most of the time is used to denigrate and distract from the Resurrection.

For you not for others.

 

[Elder 111]

Requirements of the law or those of grace? You can't have them both because they negate each other. And my buddy Paul sways so in Gal 5:4.

I just do know how you all get so off target, illogical and unscriptural.
Rom. 5:
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Grace is here because of law and sin. No law no need of grace.

 

[Elder 111]

This shows that the Sabbath was a regional, temporary command for Israel and not for the world:

From: TOAMREALTY@aol.com [mailto:TOAMREALTY@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 7:01 PM
Subject: Sabbath
Interesting problem in Alaska ....according to the officious SDA sunset calculator, on Friday eve, May 30th, in Prudhoe Bay, Alaska, the sun set below the horizon, bringing with it the Jewish Shabbat, at 11:38 PM, almost midnight. Note: AK is so far west, it is on Hawaiian time!!! Here is the quote:
Calculations for:
Longitude: -148.34000
Latitude: 70.27000 Prudhoe Bay, Alaska
Time Zone: Hawaiian Standard Time, HST
Date: 5/30/03 Friday
Sunrise: 0:07am HST (sunrise Friday morning)
Sunset: 11:38pm HST (sunset, Friday night, becoming sabbath)
Next, we find sunrise on Sabbath, May 31st, actually starts before midnight Friday night!!! and el sol invictus stays up all day Sabbath, and into Sabbath night, and into Sunday morning, and into Sunday night, for the next two months!!!!! 124
Date: 5/31/03
Sunrise: Sun above horizon HST
Sunset: Sun above horizon HST (meaning the sun never sets!!!! ) meaning: if you live and
work in Prudhoe Bay, Alaska, extracting dino remains buried and liquified by Noah's flood less than 4500 years ago, you have a problem!!!!! (no!! dummy!! not the recent age of the earth!!!!)... you have to quit working!!! Because on Friday night, May 30th, when the sun went down at 1l:38, bringing in the holy
Lord's day, you had to stop working, thou, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and all the strangers within thy igloo. But the sun came up again on Sabbath just a few minutes later, but never went down after that!!!
As I scribble this nonsense it is still Sabbath in Prudhoe Bay...cause the sun never went down....no Saturday sunset. So if you believe literally that you must keep sabbath from sunset on Friday night to Sabbath sunset.....the next day, Sabbath, did NOT have a sunset this summer!!! Won't be a sunset for another two months!!!!! So you are faced with keeping Sabbath for two months straight, and giving up your job with Exxon!!!! Unless of course, you
are the camp padre, trying to spread the word that black gold comes from dead dinos who missed the ark, or in the medical profession raking in piles of dough and salving your conscience by paying plenty of tithe to keep the hired-archy gainfully employed....

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
There is no light.

 

[LarryP2]

I just do know how you all get so off target, illogical and unscriptural.
Rom. 5:
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Grace is here because of law and sin. No law no need of grace.

Grace is here because of the Resurrection.

 

[LarryP2]

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
There is no light.

One thing that is for sure: A Sabbath day that lasts for 2 months is more Sabbath AND light than anybody ever needed.

 

[LarryP2]

For you not for others.

That the Resurrection could even be compared with ANYTHING, let alone the Sabbath, says everything you need to know about a cult of Salvation by Works. The Sabbath means absolutely NOTHING in comparison with the Resurrection.

Typically, Sabbath-Keeping goes hand in glove with an outright rejection of, or severe degradation of the Resurrection, the Divinity of Christ, the Gospels, Grace, and the Trinity.

That's why for 2,000 years, Sabbath Keeping has been denounced as an anti-Christian heresy.

 

[from scratch]

I just do know how you all get so off target, illogical and unscriptural.
Rom. 5:
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Grace is here because of law and sin. No law no need of grace.

In a way what you say is correct. Once grace is received there isn't any need for law. In fact grace chase the law off because it no longer applies in the presence of grace. Its like a light at night. Where a light shines it isn't dark.

 

[Sophrosyne]

One thing that is for sure: A Sabbath day that lasts for 2 months is more Sabbath AND light than anybody ever needed.

In actuality the Sabbath was equated to the region of the nation of Israel... not elsewhere in the world making people half way across the planet keeping it half a day off sure makes for not as much a Holy "SAME" day but a lot of different holy days apart from each other.... like a blur of a Sabbath lasting perhaps 36 hours or even more across the world as it "starts" in each new location via the sun or clock or whatever the so called Sabbath "keepers" decide to "keep". If you start by using a time zone and the Sabbath is a full 24 hours then it will across the earth be in effect for 48 hours by various people. You will have some keeping it almost a day later than others which would make them akin to keeping it on Sunday compared to those who start at the first chance of keeping it and call it Saturday.
This all makes for an interesting mockery of God's "Holy Day" to me making it instead a token attempt at keeping the Sabbath.

 

[LarryP2]

You will have some keeping it almost a day later than others which would make them akin to keeping it on Sunday compared to those who start at the first chance of keeping it and call it Saturday.
This all makes for an interesting mockery of God's "Holy Day" to me making it instead a token attempt at keeping the Sabbath.

No "akins' about it. Seventh Day Adventists actually DO worship on Sunday in many areas!:

Adventist Today : Samoa, the International Dateline Shift, and the Seventh-day Sabbath

Front Page - Seventh-day Sabbath Issues

Seventh Day Adventist Church of Tonga - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.adventist.org.au/site_data/90/assets/0037/8085/The_Seventh_Day_in_Samoa.pdf

http://www.talamua.com/samoa-seventh-day-advenstists-sunday-worship-not-endorsed/

http://www.talamua.com/confusion-continues-sda-church-samoa/

The Samoan Sabbath Dilemma - Sabbath School Net

Poor Somoans and Tongoans! Every week, those poor Seventh Day Adventists living there reluctantly accept "the Mark of the Beast," worship on the "Pope's Sabbath," and deliberately violate the 4th Commandment. And their church tells them it is okay!

The amount of self-deceit, self-flattery and sheer willful delusion that goes hand and hand with an insistence on abiding by the Old Testament Law is just jaw-dropping and utterly amazing.

 

[Sophrosyne]

No "akins' about it. Seventh Day Adventists actually DO worship on Sunday in many areas!:

Adventist Today : Samoa, the International Dateline Shift, and the Seventh-day Sabbath

Front Page - Seventh-day Sabbath Issues

Seventh Day Adventist Church of Tonga - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.adventist.org.au/site_data/90/assets/0037/8085/The_Seventh_Day_in_Samoa.pdf

http://www.talamua.com/samoa-seventh-day-advenstists-sunday-worship-not-endorsed/

http://www.talamua.com/confusion-continues-sda-church-samoa/

The Samoan Sabbath Dilemma - Sabbath School Net

Poor Somoans and Tongoans! Every week, those poor Seventh Day Adventists living there reluctantly accept "the Mark of the Beast," worship on the "Pope's Sabbath," and deliberately violate the 4th Commandment. And their church tells them it is okay!

The amount of self-deceit, self-flattery and sheer willful delusion that goes hand and hand with an insistence on abiding by the Old Testament Law is just jaw-dropping and utterly amazing.

Yup..... I don't think God ever intended the Sabbath to be kept outside of The main group of Israel either those walking in the Desert with Moses or once they were in the Land promised by to Abraham. I think the only "proper" sabbath is in the location of Israel all other Sabbaths out of that time zone are improper.