Lies about the Sabbath.

LarryP2 · May 3, 2014

pyramid33 said:
Ah man, you mean if the law hadn't said that killing other people was wrong, you'd still think it was okay to kill people? Wowzer. Paul/Saul would gladly say he thought it was okay to kill Christian's. Let's move forward though. God's law is good. Holy.

Once again, let's see if we can get that dishonest and idiotic nonsense spewed by Ellen White cleared up.

The Noahide Laws prohibited killing several hundred years before the Ten Commandments were give to the Israilites. The Noahide laws continued in force even while the Mosaic Laws were in effect. Paul repeatedly denounces murder in the Epistles. Acts 15 reaffirms the Noahide Commandments.

That the Ten Commandments are obsolete along with the rest of the Mosaic Law does not mean that it is okay to "kill people."

LarryP2 · May 3, 2014

pyramid33 said:
Nice. I thought you might have been against God's law. It is true, the law of God is against sinners. The law of God also happens to be mercy. The law of God is a 2 step forward process.

He doesn't have the disease of "Ellen White Brain." "The Law" does not mean only "The Ten Commandments." Plus the Epistles of Paul point out many different areas of sin for Christians, without ever once reenacting the Ten Commandments.

Just because the Jewish Ten Commandments became obsolete along with all of the other Mosaic Law does NOT mean that Christians do NOT have a source that describes what "sin" means for them.

I know this concept is extraordinarily difficult to grasp, but while the Nation of Israel was operating with the Mosaic Law, ALL of the Empires during the same time period had stringent prohibitions on Murder, Theft, Lying and so on. The Ten Commandments were never given to the Grecian Empire, The Babylonian Empire, the Roman Empire and the Persian Empire. Yet they still managed to prohibit nearly everything in the Ten Commandments.

How can this be?

That the Ten Commandments were never meant to be universal to all peoples in all times could not be more obvious. Even within the areas covered by the Mosaic Law, the Noahide Commandments covered the Gentiles living among the Israelites. Acts 15 makes it plain that the Noahide Laws were NOT repealed upon the obsolescence of the Mosaic Law.

from scratch · May 3, 2014

pyramid33 said:
Nice. I thought you might have been against God's law. It is true, the law of God is against sinners. The law of God also happens to be mercy. The law of God is a 2 step forward process.

Where does the law promote mercy and how is it mercy?

Elder 111 · May 3, 2014

LarryP2 said:
He doesn't have the disease of "Ellen White Brain." "The Law" does not mean only "The Ten Commandments." Plus the Epistles of Paul point out many different areas of sin for Christians, without ever once reenacting the Ten Commandments.

Just because the Jewish Ten Commandments became obsolete along with all of the other Mosaic Law does NOT mean that Christians do NOT have a source that describes what "sin" means for them.

I know this concept is extraordinarily difficult to grasp, but while the Nation of Israel was operating with the Mosaic Law, ALL of the Empires during the same time period had stringent prohibitions on Murder, Theft, Lying and so on. The Ten Commandments were never given to the Grecian Empire, The Babylonian Empire, the Roman Empire and the Persian Empire. Yet they still managed to prohibit nearly everything in the Ten Commandments.

How can this be?

That the Ten Commandments were never meant to be universal to all peoples in all times could not be more obvious. Even within the areas covered by the Mosaic Law, the Noahide Commandments covered the Gentiles living among the Israelites. Acts 15 makes it plain that the Noahide Laws were NOT repealed upon the obsolescence of the Mosaic Law.

If this is true, why were all the nations suppose to look to Jerusalem? -
Duet 4:
6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.
7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the Lord our God is in all things that we call upon him for?
8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?
Zech. 8:

22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord.
23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

LarryP2 · May 3, 2014

Elder 111 said:
If this is true, why were all the nations suppose to look to Jerusalem? -

Just go ahead and name one Empire in existence during the time that the Ten Commandments were in force in ancient Judaea that were also given the Ten Commandments.

Should be easy for you to do, since you quote scriptures that said it was going to happen that way.

Ten Commandments were given to "everyone?" Babylonian Empire? Grecian Empire? Roman Empire? Persian Empire?

Anyone?

Elder 111 · May 4, 2014

LarryP2 said:
Just go ahead and name one Empire in existence during the time that the Ten Commandments were in force in ancient Judaea that were also given the Ten Commandments.

Should be easy for you to do, since you quote scriptures that said it was going to happen that way.

Ten Commandments were given to "everyone?" Babylonian Empire? Grecian Empire? Roman Empire? Persian Empire?

Anyone?

That is not what I said, is it?

LarryP2 · May 4, 2014

Elder 111 said:
That is not what I said, is it?

You guys relentlessly come on here and proclaim that the Ten Commandments were given to all the world, for all times.

Its time for you to prove it, or shut up.

I will restate my challenge: The Ten Commandments were NEVER given to ANYONE in the Gentile, non-Jewish world. Not in ancient days. Not now. Gentiles have ALWAYS been under a different set of laws. The Mosaic Law was given ONLY to the Israelites, and they were fulfilled by the Messiah. They are only applicable to those of the Jewish Faith.

If you disagree with that statement, provide some proof. You cannot just ignore the Roman, Greek, Persian and Babylonian empires anymore. That does not cut it.

from scratch · May 4, 2014

Elder 111 said:
That is not what I said, is it?

Do you not claim the Ten Commandments are given to the whole world with MK 2:27-28?

Elder 111 · May 4, 2014

LarryP2 said:
You guys relentlessly come on here and proclaim that the Ten Commandments were given to all the world, for all times.

Its time for you to prove it, or shut up.

I will restate my challenge: The Ten Commandments were NEVER given to ANYONE in the Gentile, non-Jewish world. Not in ancient days. Not now. Gentiles have ALWAYS been under a different set of laws. The Mosaic Law was given ONLY to the Israelites, and they were fulfilled by the Messiah. They are only applicable to those of the Jewish Faith.

If you disagree with that statement, provide some proof. You cannot just ignore the Roman, Greek, Persian and Babylonian empires anymore. That does not cut it.

Firstly my faith is not based on what any man, empire or civilization held as faith, law, god or truth but what my God, the only God requires of me and all mankind.
The issue with the Ten commandments pertains only to the Sabbath. No one has a problem with the other nine. So forget about quibbling about them.
My Jesus and yours has clearly stated that the Sabbath was made for man. As far as I know that means all men. Mark 2:27. You can twist that to suit your fancies.
He further states that He is Lord of the Sabbath. So how can we worship the Lord of the Sabbath while ignoring His Sabbath?
Hebrews 4: 10 again states that we should rest as God rested. There is no account in the bible that calls us to rest as God did but the Sabbath. None.
Col 1:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
The Him here is Jesus. All thing things not some.
Genesis 2:Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Jesus Created the Sabbath, blessed it, sanctified it, before there was a Jew. He rested and then said Ex. 20:
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
I am to be the Sabbath not because I am a Jew but because Jesus is my saviour.
You may get vex with me and those who hold such a position but glory to God, He told us before.
Revelation 12
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Elder 111 · May 4, 2014

from scratch said:
Do you not claim the Ten Commandments are given to the whole world with MK 2:27-28?

No I do not claim, absolutely not.
JESUS STATED!

LarryP2 · May 4, 2014

Elder 111 said:
Firstly my faith is not based on what any man, empire or civilization held as faith, law, god or truth but what my God, the only God requires of me and all mankind.

You come on here and you argue constantly that God gave the Ten Commandments to everyone for all time. You cannot even name me one single fact that shows they were given to ANYONE else at the time they were given to the Israilites. You completely lack ANY argument they were given to the world outside of the Israeilite Nation.And yet you have the gall to come on to this Christian website and announce that Christians should be following the Sabbath. If Christians are supposed to be keeping the Sabbath, why were not the Babylonians, Greeks, Romans and Persians?

Elder 111 said:
The issue with the Ten commandments pertains only to the Sabbath.

So we trust that the next time one of your fellow Sabbath spammers comes on here and deceitfully smears Christians by insinuating they must want to "steal, kill and lie," you will set them straight and tell them the Ten Commandments are only valid because of the Sabbath, right? You won't let them get away with dishonestly insinuating that Christians say the Ten Commandments are obsolete because they wish to to go on an extended murder spree, right?

Elder 111 said:
No one has a problem with the other nine. So forget about quibbling about them.

Actually, your fellow Sabbath Spammers have made it CLEAR that Christians want to go on an unbridled crime spree, and without the Ten Commandments, they will be murdering, lying and stealing! The only thing that can possibly stop such a thing is the Ten Commandments. That is what your side argues on a daily basis. So no, your statement that "no one has a problem with the other nine" is just flat dishonest.

Elder 111 said:
My Jesus and yours has clearly stated that the Sabbath was made for man. As far as I know that means all men. Mark 2:27. You can twist that to suit your fancies.

So once again, you are implying that if other Christians strongly-disagree with your dishonest interpretation of that text, then they don't have Jesus, right?

Frogster · May 4, 2014

pyramid33 said:
Nice. I thought you might have been against God's law. It is true, the law of God is against sinners. The law of God also happens to be mercy. The law of God is a 2 step forward process.

Incorrect.

Rom 4:15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.

Heb 10:28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

Frogster · May 4, 2014

LarryP2 said:
You come on here and you argue constantly that God gave the Ten Commandments to everyone for all time. You cannot even name me one single fact that shows they were given to ANYONE else at the time they were given to the Israilites. And yet you have the gall to come on to this Christian website and announce that Christians should be following the Sabbath.

So we trust that the next time one of your fellow Sabbath spammers come on here and deceitfully smear Christians of wanting to "steal, kill and lie," you will correct them that you only want the Ten Commandments because of the Sabbath, right? You won't let them get away with dishonestly insinuating that Christians say the Ten Commandments are obsolete because they wish to murder anymore, right?

Actually, your fellow Sabbath Spammers have made it CLEAR that Christians want to go on an unbridled crime spree, and without the Ten Commandments, they will be murdering, lying and stealing! The only thing that can possibly stop such a thing is the Ten Commandments. That is what your side argues on a daily basis. So no, your statement that "no one has a problem with the other nine" is just flat dishonest.

So once again, you are implying that if other Christians strongly-disagree with your dishonest interpretation of that text, then they don't have Jesus, right?

Red above. That is a good point, when law people says "oh, you guys think you can steal and commit adultery", types of phrases, they have actually accused us of something we do not think, something that is awful too. Yes, it is a smear.

Elder 111 · May 4, 2014

Originally Posted by Elder 111

My Jesus and yours has clearly stated that the Sabbath was made for man. As far as I know that means all men. Mark 2:27. You can twist that to suit your fancies.

LarryP2 said:
So once again, you are implying that if other Christians strongly-disagree with your dishonest interpretation of that text, then they don't have Jesus, right?

I imply nothing, no need to, Jesus speaks for Himself. Mat. 7
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

VictorC · May 4, 2014

Elder 111 said:
No I do not claim, absolutely not.
JESUS STATED!

No, Jesus made no such statement, the reason you can't furnish a quote telling us the Mosaic covenant applied to all the Gentile nations. In fact, you contradict the Law's record and what Moses testified according to Deuteronomy 4 and 5.

VictorC · May 4, 2014

Elder 111 said:
Hebrews 4: 10 again states that we should rest as God rested. There is no account in the bible that calls us to rest as God did but the Sabbath. None.

You admit -again- complete ignorance of God's rest, even after this was pointed out to you. Doing this once only demonstrates a lack of understanding. Repeating the error after it has been shown to you suggests incompetence or deceit.

VictorC · May 4, 2014

Elder 111 said:
Jesus Created the Sabbath, blessed it, sanctified it, before there was a Jew.

Now how many times have you quoted Mark 2:27 lately? Jesus proved beyond all doubt that God's rest wasn't the Sabbath, and you already know that the Sabbath's origin was coincident with the manna experience, which with the Sabbath established the weekly cycle for the children of Israel. Trust me, there were plenty of Jews when the Sabbath was first ordained.

Sophrosyne · May 4, 2014

VictorC said:
Now how many times have you quoted Mark 2:27 lately? Jesus proved beyond all doubt that God's rest wasn't the Sabbath, and you already know that the Sabbath's origin was coincident with the manna experience, which with the Sabbath established the weekly cycle for the children of Israel. Trust me, there were plenty of Jews when the Sabbath was first ordained.

The fact that none of the Jews knew about the Sabbath at the time of collecting manna shows that not even Israel (the Jews) prior to Moses at mount Sinai knew how to keep a proper Sabbath.

Frogster · May 4, 2014

All these verses show the law was never given to gentiles.

Psalm 147:19 He declares his word to Jacob, his statutes and rules to Israel.20 He has not dealt thus with any other nation; (gentiles mine) they do not know his rules.
Praise the LORD!

2 Chronicles 2:4 Behold, I am about to build a house for the name of the LORD my God and dedicate it to him for the burning of incense of sweet spices before him, and for the regular arrangement of the showbread, and for burnt offerings morning and evening, on the Sabbaths and the new moons and the appointed feasts of the LORD our God, as ordained forever for Israel.

Passover of the Gentiles, or Jews?

John 2:13
The Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

John 6:4
Now the Passover, the feast of the Jews, was at hand.

John 11:55
Now the Passover of the Jews was at hand, and many went up from the country to Jerusalem before the Passover to purify themselves

Exodus 12:48
When a stranger sojourning with you wishes to keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it.

1 Cor 9:21 To those outside the law (gentiles mine) I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.

Rom 2:12 For all who have sinned without the law (gentiles mine)will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.

Deuteronomy5:3
Not with our fathers did the LORD make this covenant, but with us, who are all of us here alive today.

Acts 14:16 In past generations he allowed all the nations (Gentiles) to walk in their own ways.

Acts 17:30 The times of ignorance (Gentiles) God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,

Peter said the ignorance word too, about gentiles, they were not under the law.

1 Peter 1:14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance,

Romans 9:4 They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises.

VictorC · May 4, 2014

Sophrosyne said:
The fact that none of the Jews knew about the Sabbath at the time of collecting manna shows that not even Israel (the Jews) prior to Moses at mount Sinai knew how to keep a proper Sabbath.

The idea of following a weekly cycle was so unfamiliar that of course they had trouble grasping the concept of the Sabbath.

Lies about the Sabbath.

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