LGBT- what scriptures do you have?

[FireDragon76]

If you choose to only chary pick your verses from the Bible, then there is no difference between you and the pharisees. What did He call them, Oh ya, whitewashed tombs.

They weren't simply bad at understanding the Bible. They were self-righteous, so they used the Scriptures to manipulate other people with their authority. And it is here that the use of the Scriptures, not just its meaning, is important. If you misuse the scriptures, you aren't that different from the pharisees.

And speaking of cherry-picking, where is the mercy and love in your message? Where is the Good News for gay people? It seems to me the frequent message that is unless gay people can figure out some way to stop even having attractions to the same sex, they are damned. Because attraction = lust.

 

[HaloJam]

By 'love', do you mean the emotion or the physical act?

3But Lot insisted, so at last they went home with him. Lot prepared a feast for them, complete with fresh bread made without yeast, and they ate. 4But before they retired for the night, all the men of Sodom, young and old, came from all over the city and surrounded the house. 5They shouted to Lot, “Where are the men who came to spend the night with you? Bring them out to us so we can have sex with them!”
6So Lot stepped outside to talk to them, shutting the door behind him. 7“Please, my brothers,” he begged, “don’t do such a wicked thing. 8Look, I have two virgin daughters. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do with them as you wish. But please, leave these men alone, for they are my guests and are under my protection.”
9“Stand back!” they shouted. “This fellow came to town as an outsider, and now he’s acting like our judge! We’ll treat you far worse than those other men!” And they lunged toward Lot to break down the door.
10But the two angels reached out, pulled Lot into the house, and bolted the door. 11Then they blinded all the men, young and old, who were at the door of the house, so they gave up trying to get inside.
12Meanwhile, the angels questioned Lot. “Do you have any other relatives here in the city?” they asked. “Get them out of this place—your sons-in-law, sons, daughters, or anyone else. 13For we are about to destroy this city completely. The outcry against this place is so great it has reached the lord, and he has sent us to destroy it.”

Sometimes the scriptures will tell you plainly other times it tells you by what happened.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

I'm Lutheran, our forgiveness is not dependent on our degree of repentance, but repentance is a fruit of faith that leads to good works. If your experience is like mine, my repentance has never been something I could count on, even on my best days. As Luther wrote on the third article of the Creed, "I cannot of my own strength or reason fear, love, and trust in God, but only that the Holy Spirit calls me...".

Of course in this life, we will struggle with sin, this is what we mean by being simultaneously just and a sinner. But I'm not convinced being gay is a sign we've stopped struggling. In fact it is a very damaging message, especially for gay people to believe. It leads to despair in many cases in people that believe it. I would always point a gay person to Jesus who has died for all their sins and forgiven them, and to tell them to never doubt that.

Note, this is a totally seperate issue from the ethics of homosexuality. But just telling somebody because they are gay and they "lust", that they are in trouble with God, is ridiculous. We all lust. We just do. Inducing guilt into people won't change that ,and that's not Jesus intention with the Sermon on the Mount. His commandments are aimed at the proud and hypocritical: mostly religious people who think somehow they ingratiate themselves with God. His promises and blessings are aimed at the poor in spirit, the broken, and the oppressed.

Again, we seem to be in some agreement about our tendency to mess up and needing to then get cleaned up.
I agree and think no one here was suggesting having SS attractions or feelings is in itself a sin, anymore than having natural attractions are. I say "natural" not to offend others said to be wired differently, but in the sense humans were made male and female for a reason and a SS attractions stands against both that reason and designed order from it. Why God makes any particular person one way and not some other is a different matter. And regardless how one is said to have been made, the issue is still what one does with what God has given you.

So in all cases it is what we do about those attractions and feelings. A stirring in the mind and glance when someone walks by is not the same as a leer. Only the second or somewhere in between perhaps do we begin the first of possibly more sin. So we sin even before we act on the attraction or feeling.
What I felt your posts were alluding to was as long as a loving homosexual couple (as in doing something sinful with those attractions) were regularly confessing and repenting of their sins, then they are OK. Obviously they are not OK. So I was saying it is one thing to say one can sin and then get forgiven. A totally other thing to suggest that ability is equally extended to someone who obviously has no intention of stopping the sin.

I agree the sinner needs our help not our judgement or hate. I do not agree that means we need to coddle someone thinking it has to be OK because no one is getting hurt and it is all about love. From that view, I would hope Church's and Christians would treat couples having premarital sex and/or living together the same way they should treat the sexually active LGBT and also adulterous members. Because those are all sexual sins, and very grave ones at that. As in souls at risk.

 

[SeventyOne]

I get it, God hates gays, then...

Seriously, some people don't think through their theology . Do you think Jesus is really saying those lines to condemn every single man on earth, or perhaps to only condemn hypocrites who pretend they don't lust?

No, I don't think you do get it at all. God condemns sin, and in the end, He'll condemn those who die in their sins.

And to answer your question, yes and yes.

 

[Another Lazarus]

If parents advice isnt enough this is from God :

Levi 20:13 "'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

I'm Lutheran, our forgiveness is not dependent on our degree of repentance, but repentance is a fruit of faith that leads to good works. If your experience is like mine, my repentance has never been something I could count on, even on my best days. As Luther wrote on the third article of the Creed, "I cannot of my own strength or reason fear, love, and trust in God, but only that the Holy Spirit calls me...".

Of course in this life, we will struggle with sin, this is what we mean by being simultaneously just and a sinner. But I'm not convinced being gay is a sign we've stopped struggling. In fact it is a very damaging message, especially for gay people to believe. It leads to despair in many cases in people that believe it. I would always point a gay person to Jesus who has died for all their sins and forgiven them, and to tell them to never doubt that.

Note, this is a totally seperate issue from the ethics of homosexuality. But just telling somebody because they are gay and they "lust", that they are in trouble with God, is ridiculous. We all lust. We just do. Inducing guilt into people won't change that ,and that's not Jesus intention with the Sermon on the Mount. His commandments are aimed at the proud and hypocritical: mostly religious people who think somehow they ingratiate themselves with God. His promises and blessings are aimed at the poor in spirit, the broken, and the oppressed.

BTW, I mentioned making a repentance that is not "true". So am not sure how to look at that as a statement about degree of repentance. If one is not "truly" repentant, in what sense can it be said in confession of sins that one is really sorry about sinning. I would think no matter what one's faith says/teaches about confessing one's sins, if it is not sincere it is an attempt to lie to God about it and that cannot be to one's benefit.

 

[buzuxi02]

I am looking for scriptures that specifically say that a woman or a man cannot love a person of the same gender. Not ones stating that a man CAN love a woman or related messages. I want ones saying they can or cannot love the same sex. Thanks!

Romantic love is only 800 years old, invented in western Europe. Before that you just did what your collective culture practised usually it was a mechanism to propagate relations and promote your tribe. In ancient Athens an adult may of had sexual relations with a teen regardless if either of them were into it. Likewise a time came to marry and procreate. Love in ancient society was to sacrifice for the greater good of your clan.

In about the 12th century there was a rise in individualism in the west so you did not have to conform according to the whole. This spurned love poetry aND theater etc. So a new form of "love" emerged. So you may have to be a bit more specific in what you mean by love.

 

[Infinitive]

I am looking for scriptures that specifically say that a woman or a man cannot love a person of the same gender. Not ones stating that a man CAN love a woman or related messages. I want ones saying they can or cannot love the same sex. Thanks!

I am assuming you are referring to love in the romantic sense.

We use love to refer to the love we have for friends, for family, for spouses, and for God. Greek uses a different verb for each, which is helpful.

I am assuming by scriptures saying you "can't love" you don't mean they are unable to, but rather God forbids it.

There are no scriptures about people who engaged in exclusive romantic/physical relationships with the same sex. Anyone relevant had heterosexual sex because it produced children. No one married for love, marriages where planned for the good of the family.

Romans has a single passage about Roman orgies and Leviticus has a passage against what is basically temple prostitution. There is nothing about homosexuality in the bible because they had no such concept. There were men that loved men and had sex with them, but they had wives too, so they could make babies.

There just wasn't a black and white concept of sexuality as we have now.

 

[CRfan]

I am looking for scriptures that specifically say that a woman or a man cannot love a person of the same gender. Not ones stating that a man CAN love a woman or related messages. I want ones saying they can or cannot love the same sex. Thanks!

Romans 1 (especially vers 27)
Homosexuality is an indecent act.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Ephesians 5:31-33
Male and female become one flesh ...see Genesis that this is how people were created.
Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13 are the Old Testament references. God hasn't changed on same gender sex being a sin, or that marriage is where a man and woman become one flesh.
Now, David & Jonathan loved each other, but it wasn't a lustful immoral love. Don't get confused between brotherly or sisterly love (1 Samuel 18:1, 3) and sexual desires and lust. Jonathan & David had their own wives, and they weren't lusting after each other.

 

[Zoii]

Well problem with some christians is the want perfectly matching verses that use exact words. If they can't find it then they justify their view. I mean I don't see a verse that says I can't go skydiving since its very dangerous. Or that I shouldn't stand in the rain when theres lightning. Or that youtube isn't allowed being something I like alot (not to an idol point).

Thats so confusing and contradicts everything Ive been told before here - that the bible should be accepted literally and only the words in the bible should be accepted. You saying that things should or could be done even if it doesnt say it because we can imply things.

 

[Infinitive]

Thats so confusing and contradicts everything Ive been told before here - that the bible should be accepted literally and only the words in the bible should be accepted. You saying that things should or could be done even if it doesnt say it because we can imply things.

What you think about the bible isn't biblical. The bible does not say those things.

Men do. Men also twist the bible to fit their philosophies.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

By 'love', do you mean the emotion or the physical act?

Good question.
To love, as in 1 Corinthians 13 or as in the Good Samaritan, or as in Jesus dying to save humankind, then of course all such love is a good thing regardless of gender/sex. But romantic/erotic love, that is lust or sexual behavior, is ONLY good, right, and pure within male-female marriage, and the scriptures are consistent and unequivocal about that.

 

[James Nyirongo]

no man ever loved a man or a woman to woman in the bible, we all know what happened at sodom and gomolah. Its non negotiable being gay or lesbian is a sin , non biblical and in my opinion mental instability. These people need our prayers to change. Its 100 percent demons at work

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

I am looking for scriptures that specifically say that a woman or a man cannot love a person of the same gender. Not ones stating that a man CAN love a woman or related messages. I want ones saying they can or cannot love the same sex. Thanks!

Others have shared these scriptures I am sure, but let me summarize some of the scripture passages that reveal what God thinks about homosexual behavior and the issue of marriage: Matthew 19:4-6 (defining marriage), Genesis 1-2 (defining the image of God as male and female), Genesis 18-19 (Sodom and Gomorrah, which as Jude 1:7 indicates is not just about hospitality), Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, Deuteronomy 23:18. And in the New Testament we have Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9, and 1 Timothy 1:10. These scriptures condemn homosexual behavior as sin, even calling it an abomination, which of course without repentance and amendment of life will keep you out of heaven. Additionally, there are many more scriptures that condemn sexual sin in general, which is defined as any sexual behavior outside of male-female marriage (this then must logically include homosexual behavior). Chastity, sexual purity and sexual faithfulness in marriage are virtues valued highly all through the Bible. Their opposite is always condemned.

So when the Bible is consistent about something in both Old and New Testaments, the Church should proclaim it. And the Church has indeed proclaimed these scriptures and the doctrine of sexual faithfulness and chastity for 2000 years. When the early Church fathers, the Roman Catholics, the Eastern Orthodox, and the Reformers have all agreed on a doctrine (on what the scriptures teach), then you can 'take it to the bank.'

Unfortunately, we are living in a permissive age and a libertine culture that practically worships sex; this constant in our face emphasis (sex sells) reveals that it has become an epidemic ... of sin. So of course the Church must deal with it. And what is truly tragic is that many liberal churches (like the Episcopal Church) have folded their tents of belief in the Bible and have run to pansexual paganism, co-opting the PC secular values and jettisoning 2000 years of agreed-upon doctrine and morality.

 

[Outtaluck]

Sex was created by God not just for procreation. It was created as a way to express the intimacy God wants to have with us. Its meant to be between one mab and one woman, as defined in Genesis 2. As a society, we've perverted it to something completely different. If your searching whether we are to love each other, it depends on which love. The love that Christ showed us is 'agape' love in the Koine Greek. The love meant for friendship is 'philadelphos' I think, and lustful, sexual love uses another word in Koine Greek. Blue letter bible will be able to allow you to look up the references in the original language (Interlinear Bible) to see what is meant by the author. Remember Hebrew is read right to left, though.

But, my understanding is we are to love each other with agape love, and take one of the opposite sex as a spouse, and become one with them, and God. Then we come to homosexuality. Throughout the Bible, its apparent that one omission, one act of anger deserves the same judgment as homosexuality. So, we are to love the person, despise the sin.

Remember , Scripture is inspired by God, the translations are not. Make sure to research the original language and see what it says for yourself.

 

[Victor E.]

I am looking for scriptures that specifically say that a woman or a man cannot love a person of the same gender. Not ones stating that a man CAN love a woman or related messages. I want ones saying they can or cannot love the same sex. Thanks!

"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." Jude 1:7

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

"But to the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and sexually immoral and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelations 21:8

 

[Der Alte]

....There are no scriptures about people who engaged in exclusive romantic/physical relationships with the same sex. Anyone relevant had heterosexual sex because it produced children. No one married for love, marriages where planned for the good of the family.

What I think I'm seeing here is internet "theology" but zero evidence. Can you provide credible, verifiable, historical evidence for the statements made here? By this I do not mean copy/pastes from random websites. Preferably something written at or near the times in question by participants or direct eye witnesses.

Romans has a single passage about Roman orgies and Leviticus has a passage against what is basically temple prostitution. There is nothing about homosexuality in the bible because they had no such concept. There were men that loved men and had sex with them, but they had wives too, so they could make babies.

Such nonsense! If Paul had only meant Roman orgies, temple prostitution etc. that is what he would have said. Paul was a Jew and he knew that the OT specifically prohibited sex between a man and another man, which the Jews understood by extension included sex between two women. Here is a quote from the Jewish Talmud written before the Christian era.

Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Sanhedrin Folio 54a
Mishnah. He who commits sodomy with a male or a beast, and a woman that commits inappropriate behavior with animals are stoned. If the man has sinned, wherein has the animal offended? But because man was enticed to sin thereby,28 scripture ordered that it should be stoned. Another reason is that the animal should not pass through the streets, whilst people say, this is the animal on account of which so and so was stoned.
GEMARA. Whence do I know that pederasty is punished by stoning? — Our Rabbis taught: [If a man lieth also with mankind, as the lyings of a woman,29 both of them have committed on abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them,]30 …They shall surely be put to death: by stoning. You say, by stoning: but perhaps some other death decreed in the Torah is meant? — Their blood shall be upon them is stated here, …
This teaches the punishment: whence do we derive the formal prohibition? — From the verse, Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination.1 From this we learn the formal prohibition for him who lies [with a male]: whence do we know a formal prohibition for the person who permits himself thus to be abused? — Scripture saith: There shall be no sodomite of the sons of Israel:2 and it is further said, And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to the abominations of the nations which the Lord had cast out before the children of Israel:3 this is R. Ishmael's view. R. Akiba said: This is unnecessary, the Writ saith, thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: read, 'thou shalt not be lain with.'4 …
Now, he who [actively] commits pederasty, and also [passively] permits himself to be thus abused — R. Abbahu said: On R. Ishmael's view, he is liable to two penalties, one [for the injunction] derived from thou shalt not lie with mankind, and the other for [violating the prohibition,] There shall not be a Sodomite of the sons of Israel. But on R. Akiba's view, he incurs only one penalty, since thou shalt not lie and thou shalt not be lain with is but one statement.12
Link:
The Talmud​

And Paul being a Pharisee knew this. When he wrote Romans one he was not referring to Roman orgies or temple prostitution alone but all sexual activity between men and men and women and women.

]There just wasn't a black and white concept of sexuality as we have now.

There most certainly was as I have shown.

 

[FireDragon76]

Sex was created by God not just for procreation. It was created as a way to express the intimacy God wants to have with us. Its meant to be between one mab and one woman, as defined in Genesis 2. As a society, we've perverted it to something completely different. If your searching whether we are to love each other, it depends on which love. The love that Christ showed us is 'agape' love in the Koine Greek.

You don't think two men can have this love for one another, even two gay men? I don't think some people here have done enough living and interacting with real people to come to such a dismissive judgment on gay relationships.

The issue is far more complicated than it would initially seem. At risk is the Christian charity we owe to all human beings as their right.

 

[Bruce Carr]

I am looking for scriptures that specifically say that a woman or a man cannot love a person of the same gender. Not ones stating that a man CAN love a woman or related messages. I want ones saying they can or cannot love the same sex. Thanks!

Think you are mistaking lust, sexual deviancy, and sexual emotions for 'love'; We are to love everyone. The first thing you must do is determine the true definition of the words you intend to use, rather than changing definitions to accommodate a sinful world. Then you must determine that God makes the 'rules' for our eternal benefit; not to keep us from being 'happy' or similar nonsense.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

Before someone mentions it, let me answer the point some PC people make about Jesus Himself not addressing the issue of homosexuality.

Homosexuality was regarded as such an abomination by the Jews (like inappropriate behavior with animals and incest), that it simply was not an issue in Israel in the time of Jesus. No one asked about it because it was not an issue. So of course He did not address it. It was already strongly addressed in the scriptures (the OT Law, e.g. Leviticus 18:22). However, adultery actually was common in His culture and He certainly addressed that. Jesus was actually more strict about sex than the Pharisees, for He was the one who said that even lust for someone not your spouse was sin (Matt 5).
Besides, it was not religious conservatives that Jesus condemned, it was hypocritical leaders, those who told the people to do right but then privately did wrong. In Matthew 23, he told the people: "So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

In Matthew 5 (Sermon on the Mt), Jesus teaches about the continuing viability of the moral aspects of the Mosaic Law: "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law [you have to do it, not just say it], you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." This is Jesus talking.

So it is pretty clear cut what Jesus thought. He agreed with the Mosaic Law as we find in Leviticus and elsewhere, and homosexuality is clearly condemned therein. In no place in scripture is it regarded as acceptable (I challenge you to find one place) and in no place is marriage considered anything but a man and a woman (I challenge you to find one place).

Again, Jesus was more strict than the Jewish leaders about divorce and sex. Even lust was now a sin. Why is God so strict about sex? The answer requires that we understand a deep and difficult concept. The vital spiritual principle embedded in our sexuality has to do with being created “in the image of God.” Genesis 1:27 asserts: "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them." Observe that it is not a man or a woman individually, but man and woman together which make up the image of God. The powerful symbolism inherent in the Church’s role as the “Bride of Christ” confirms this Creation principle. It is the divine design for humanity, reflecting God Himself, and homosexual behavior and its acceptance insults and defaces that image.