LGBT+ Ally Christians?

[1stcenturylady]

That is a completely false dichotomy.

,,

 

[1stcenturylady]

That is a completely false dichotomy.

Read it again. He's right. I'm heterosexual, but practice abstinence. I could easily fornicate and it would be a sin. Homosexuals can practice abstinence too to the glory of God.

 

[1stcenturylady]

It is important to understand that the Bible does not say that homosexuality is a sin, but rather it says that homosexual sex is a sin. Homosexuality just means that someone has the temptation to sin in a specific area and while I don't struggle with that particular temptation, I do struggle with the temptation to sin in other areas. However, all sin is wrong, so the fact that we still sin doesn't justify any else's sin. Furthermore, the Bible does not say that we should treat anyone differently just because they are attracted to someone of the same gender, but if someone is caught in sin, but Bible does instruct us to gently restore them.

I think there is good evidence that homosexuality is at least caused in part by nurture, such as by childhood sexual abuse. If people didn't think that our desires influenced by advertising, then it wouldn't be a billion dollar industry. However, the issue of whether or not homosexuality is genetic is completely irrelevant because we are still responsible for the choice that we make. Alcoholism is also genetic, which can explain someone's alcoholism, but doesn't excuse. They are still responsible for their actions.

The comparison between Chick-Fil-A and the KKK is completely and utterly absurd. People are not homophobic racist bigots just because they disagree with someone's political position. In Muslim countries they kill homosexuals, so it is very strange to see the same people who compare Chik-Fil-A with the KKK turn around and supports Muslims.

So we can be friends with homosexuals, but no one who condones another person's sin is their ally.

I understand. I knew three homosexuals at my church who practiced abstinence.

 

[tansy]

In the vast majority of cases one's sexual orientation is as inherent as ones' race. I also think that the biblical attitude toward homosexuality is based on a cultural bias or mistaken understanding and is not God ordained. Moreover there is a great deal of misunderstanding about what the "anti-homosexual passages" actually mean. The best exposition of this is in the essay below by a leading Bible scholar the late Walter Wink.

Good post...very interesting.

 

[ViaCrucis]

"I was hungry, and you did not feed Me."

How we treat others, especially those who suffer and are marginalized in our society, is how we treat our Lord Jesus. And we will all have to stand and give account for how we treated our fellow human beings.

Where do you want to be when He comes as judge of the quick and the dead? On the corner with a sign saying "God hates ****" or standing with those being attacked? I know which side Christ is on, and it's not the one with the signs.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[1stcenturylady]

"I was hungry, and you did not feed Me."

How we treat others, especially those who suffer and are marginalized in our society, is how we treat our Lord Jesus. And we will all have to stand and give account for how we treated our fellow human beings.

Where do you want to be when He comes as judge of the quick and the dead? On the corner with a sign saying "God hates ****" or standing with those being attacked? I know which side Christ is on, and it's not the one with the signs.

-CryptoLutheran

The question is are practicing homosexuals Christ's "brethren"?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I would ask a more controversial question, are those who refuse to ally with the LGBT forces enemies? This language of ally implies alliances which implies enemies and if Christians want to "ally" themselves with the LGBT (who are not informed by Christianity to any significant extent) then they are ultimately setting themselves up against those who disagree.

On a basic level the LGBT wants the disordered to be accepted as normal. They want the sexual revolution and not a biblical and Christian vision of sexuality to flourish. If we take the sexual revolution seriously there is no limits to the type of sexual expression "allies" must agree with.

If only for the sake of making ones loyalties clear, I would say no. Do not ally with the LGBT movement.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Not in the Bible.

God does not cast "sin" into Hell, He justly casts the unrepentant "sinner" into Hell. God does not separate the unrepentant sinner from their sin.

True Joe, those words per se are not in the Bible(hate the sin ..love the sinner). Jesus forgave the very soldiers who drove the spikes in his hands and feet...was that not an act of love? I am sure they were unrepentant sinners yet it appears that Jesus loved them anyway.

 

[MyGivenNameIsKeith]

Scriptures say to not partake in one anothers sins. Don't support it, in fact, preach what the bible says about it. Tell the gospel as it is, which is quite clear on the end result concerning the topic. Let the Holy Spirit do what it does. It will do one of two things, convict the sinner of the need to repent and transform their life, or drive them away. Jesus came to divide. His word seperates the righteous from the wicked. You witness to an lgbt community and it will stir up a hornets nest. But you are loving them by trying. By preaching the truth. Kids are lost, they need God. So make that your primary goal. To lead them to Christ, and not lead yourself to support their sins.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Scriptures say to not partake in one anothers sins. Don't support it, in fact, preach what the bible says about it. Tell the gospel as it is, which is quite clear on the end result concerning the topic. Let the Holy Spirit do what it does. It will do one of two things, convict the sinner of the need to repent and transform their life, or drive them away. Jesus came to divide. His word seperates the righteous from the wicked. You witness to an lgbt community and it will stir up a hornets nest. But you are loving them by trying. By preaching the truth. Kids are lost, they need God. So make that your primary goal. To lead them to Christ, and not lead yourself to support their sins.

AgAin

Scriptures say to not partake in one anothers sins. Don't support it, in fact, preach what the bible says about it. Tell the gospel as it is, which is quite clear on the end result concerning the topic. Let the Holy Spirit do what it does. It will do one of two things, convict the sinner of the need to repent and transform their life, or drive them away. Jesus came to divide. His word seperates the righteous from the wicked. You witness to an lgbt community and it will stir up a hornets nest. But you are loving them by trying. By preaching the truth. Kids are lost, they need God. So make that your primary goal. To lead them to Christ, and not lead yourself to support their sins.

Once again......much wisdom here

 

[JeffofGallifrey]

For starters: I want to say that this forum might not be the best place for an unbiased discussion on this topic, as CF has rules about not "promoting homosexuality" so you may not hear liberal Christians' input.

Personally, I think you should do a little research into the passages in the Bible that discuss homosexuality and try to develop a distinct sense of what you believe and why. Clobber Passages – Evangelicals Concerned Inc. has a good intro to the liberal Christian viewpoint and this 10 Things Everyone Should Know About a Christian View of Homosexuality is a good intro to conservative beliefs on the issue.

This is an excellent middle-of-the-road article. What Does the Bible Say About Homosexuality?

As far as transgender issues go, the Bible (at least the New Testament), is surprisingly silent. (If you want more info on this, PM me.)

Personally, I believe that Christians should be political allies of lgbt people even if they are not completely convinced that homosexuality is not a sin. In many states, a person can legally be fired, denied housing, or denied heath insurance because they're lgbt. Whatever your religious views, a Christian should be against legal discrimination.

Finally: I think maybe boycotting chick-fil-a is a little ridiculous. I'm transgender and I think their chicken is delicious. You can be a good ally without being a chicken-nugget Nazi

 

[Anguspure]

There is something that I have been thinking about for a while. Is it ok for Christians to be allies to the LGBT+ community? I am not an ally, but I do not deny their humanity nor do I treat them any different then I would someone else. I can be friends with, hang out with, etc. a member of the LGBT+ community, I just don't support who you are/what you do. I get it if it is a non-believer as an ally, but a Christian makes me scratch my head. My sister who is a Christian is an ally. We even had a disagreement when she said you shouldnt eat at Chick-Fil-A because they give some of the money they make to Christian churches/organizations for anti-LGBT purposes. I haven't researched that, but that's what she claims. I told her that they were entitled to their opinion, especially as an organization with religious values. She then asked me how I'd feel is the KKK was receiving money from a restaurant. She got bent out of shape when I told her I didn't see our race as the same thing as one's orientation. I reminded her that the Bible says homosexuality is a sin in which she pointed out that I am a sinner which I am fully aware of. I know that I am a sinner, but at the same time, I admit that my sins are indeed sins and want to move away from them. I feel that these Christian allies are either denying it is a sin or are like "yeah it's a sin, but we're going to support it!" I feel like if you are a Christian you shouldn't be an ally or participating in pride month and so on. Is there something I am not getting? Please help me to understand.

LGBT and other similar movements are about victimhood and "poor me" culture.
As a child of God I love all people irrespective of of thier status as a victim and invite poor me people to join with me in the victory of salavation in Christ Jesus
So I am destined to be a seen as a fence sitter on this sort of thing. I neither demonize nor agree with any movement of human construct. Rather I simply Love my neighbour as myself and am ready to proclaim the gospel of peace to all mankind.

 

[mindlight]

There is something that I have been thinking about for a while. Is it ok for Christians to be allies to the LGBT+ community? I am not an ally, but I do not deny their humanity nor do I treat them any different then I would someone else. I can be friends with, hang out with, etc. a member of the LGBT+ community, I just don't support who you are/what you do. I get it if it is a non-believer as an ally, but a Christian makes me scratch my head. My sister who is a Christian is an ally. We even had a disagreement when she said you shouldnt eat at Chick-Fil-A because they give some of the money they make to Christian churches/organizations for anti-LGBT purposes. I haven't researched that, but that's what she claims. I told her that they were entitled to their opinion, especially as an organization with religious values. She then asked me how I'd feel is the KKK was receiving money from a restaurant. She got bent out of shape when I told her I didn't see our race as the same thing as one's orientation. I reminded her that the Bible says homosexuality is a sin in which she pointed out that I am a sinner which I am fully aware of. I know that I am a sinner, but at the same time, I admit that my sins are indeed sins and want to move away from them. I feel that these Christian allies are either denying it is a sin or are like "yeah it's a sin, but we're going to support it!" I feel like if you are a Christian you shouldn't be an ally or participating in pride month and so on. Is there something I am not getting? Please help me to understand.

Take it case by case. If an LGBT person who is perfectly competent is being picked on in a workplace and discriminated against because of non work relevant reasons then they should be protected just as any other worker should from bullies. If an LGBT person is having property unfairly confiscated or damaged because of their LGBTness then that also is a crime that should be prosecuted. But if LGBT people want to force Christians to affirm their world views by baking gay pride cakes or if they want to assert that a gay relationship is equivalent to a hetrosexual marriage then that should be opposed. It is what they do that counts not who they are.

 

[Blade]

Help anyone.. love all. But.. if you walk in sin.. were told not to be part of that. Not gonna be best friends or hanging out those freely walking in sin. Saying Jesus is lord.. does not make it ok to walk in sin. Nor do we have a right to say what is sin and what is not. No where in the word does it say "its ok to be homosexual". Some are trying to see how close they can get to that line with out crossing it. Thats just it.. with the Father that loves all and died for all.. there is no line with Him. I didn't make the rules so to speak. Any kind of sin is NEVER ok with God.

Know this.. I and every one else.. are not your God. You don't answer to me nor do you sin against me. We can do anything we want. We can tell our selfs anything we want. And God will say? Nothing. Its a FREE CHOICE. But even though Christ died for ALL SINS. If we sin.. we WILL pay a price for that sin in this world. Saying I dont believe I dont agree changes nothing. This is written. All sin = death in this world. Man.. I even get scared sometimes. MAN has changed.. GOD NEVER HAS! You read the OT? That GOD is still here never once changed. He knew then Jesus was coming to die for the world.

So.. I step back from me. From what I want feel think. And then ask HIM what He wants. 1st song I ever sang was "its my desire". Its a older song. Nothing has changed. I still want to be like Him. For that to happen.. what I want means nothing. I give it all to Him.. all my desires thoughts you name it. Then.. He gives it back SO MUCH SO GREATER then anything I could have ever wanted.

What does Christ want? Do you love Him or not? Are you willing to give up ALL for Him? Are you willing to hear what He wants or do you just want what you want? So much of what we do is based on FEELINGS. Which can be twisted so easily. We can be blinded so fast. Give JESUS a chance. ANYTHING in my life that is not of Him.. I dont want it. Anything I an wrong in... I give Him the right to change me 1st.

Like I said.. I am no ones judge. I of my self can not give you life. I can't promise you anything. He can. Like He would said.. so many things in this world.. there is no life in it.

 

[FireDragon76]

LGBT and other similar movements are about victimhood and "poor me" culture.

This characterization of the movement is overly simplistic, and perpetuates negative stereotypes about gays. The rioters at Stonewall were not passive victims waiting on the patronizing pity of others. The LGBT movement has been a mixture of appeals for compassion, but also direct action aimed at dismantling oppressive structures through non-cooperation and other active means.

If anyone is playing the "victim" card, it's religious conservatives. The opinions on some Christian churches on gays, lesbians, and homosexuality are not all that relevant anymore to the wider society- conservative Christians lost the fight over the meaning of sexuality in the 50's and 60's when birth control became ubiquitous and widely accepted. Christians don't have a monopoly on the language of moral discourse in our society anymore, and attempts to fight that trend only scandalize the Gospel. I really wish Christians would focus their energy elsewhere in more productive pursuits.

 

[Anguspure]

This characterization of the movement is overly simplistic, and perpetuates negative stereotypes about gays. The rioters at Stonewall were not passive victims waiting on the patronizing pity of others. The LGBT movement has been a mixture of appeals for compassion, but also direct action aimed at dismantling oppressive structures through non-cooperation and other active means.

If anyone is playing the "victim" card, it's religious conservatives. The opinions on some Christian churches on gays, lesbians, and homosexuality are not all that relevant anymore to the wider society- conservative Christians lost the fight over the meaning of sexuality in the 50's and 60's when birth control became ubiquitous and widely accepted. Christians don't have a monopoly on the language of moral discourse in our society anymore, and attempts to fight that trend only scandalize the Gospel. I really wish Christians would focus their energy elsewhere in more productive pursuits.

I think you hit a big nail on the head here. The fact is that we live in a post-Christian society and that many are finding that hard to come to terms with.

If we look at any of the pre-Christian societies we find that LGBT behaviour and a whole lot more besides was accepted, and even worshipped, as a norm.

The approach of people of the Kingdom therefore needs to be modified from one of religious dominance to one of the prophetic in the name of Christ Jesus.

This would mean that we all start living as Christ lives, as the Apostles also modelled and continually lay down our lives for the Agape and salvation of all mankind.

In terms of our approach to any particular group of society then it should be in accordance with the Spirit.

 

[JoeP222w]

Read it again. He's right. I'm heterosexual, but practice abstinence. I could easily fornicate and it would be a sin. Homosexuals can practice abstinence too to the glory of God.

Heterosexuality is not a sin. Homosexuality is a sin as defined by God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, (10) nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (11) And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[JoeP222w]

The question is are practicing homosexuals Christ's "brethren"?

No. Anyone who makes a habitual lifelong practice of sin is not of God.

1 John 3:8-9 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. (9) No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

 

[JoeP222w]

I am sure they were unrepentant sinners yet it appears that Jesus loved them anyway.

Do you claim to know their heart? How do you know that they did not later repent, as the Bible is silent on this?

Moreover, God has a love for His creation. God loves the sinner. God loves His adopted children. But that love is not the same for the both of them. I love my wife very much. I love my neighbor's wife because she was created in the image of God. But the love I have for my wife is radically different than the love I have for my neighbor's wife. God's love is differentiated between His creatures. Not in the sense of favoritism, but according to the counsel of His own perfect divine will.

 

[DennisTate]

There is something that I have been thinking about for a while. Is it ok for Christians to be allies to the LGBT+ community? I am not an ally, but I do not deny their humanity nor do I treat them any different then I would someone else. I can be friends with, hang out with, etc. a member of the LGBT+ community, I just don't support who you are/what you do. I get it if it is a non-believer as an ally, but a Christian makes me scratch my head. My sister who is a Christian is an ally. We even had a disagreement when she said you shouldnt eat at Chick-Fil-A because they give some of the money they make to Christian churches/organizations for anti-LGBT purposes. I haven't researched that, but that's what she claims. I told her that they were entitled to their opinion, especially as an organization with religious values. She then asked me how I'd feel is the KKK was receiving money from a restaurant. She got bent out of shape when I told her I didn't see our race as the same thing as one's orientation. I reminded her that the Bible says homosexuality is a sin in which she pointed out that I am a sinner which I am fully aware of. I know that I am a sinner, but at the same time, I admit that my sins are indeed sins and want to move away from them. I feel that these Christian allies are either denying it is a sin or are like "yeah it's a sin, but we're going to support it!" I feel like if you are a Christian you shouldn't be an ally or participating in pride month and so on. Is there something I am not getting? Please help me to understand.

Good questions..... . this other topic may help you to find the answer to this.


God's many plans for the Gay community???????