LGBT+ Ally Christians?

The Times

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The gates of hell shall not prevail against my Church.

The stick from heaven is coming against all the unrighteous enemies of God and his Christ.

The WORLD has declared war against God, so God and his Lamb will not disappoint them.

Judgement is imminent and God has called it the day of the Lord.

Lament!
 
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The Times

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The Lord Comes and Reigns

A day of the Lord is coming, My Church, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.

I will gather all the nations to My Church to fight against it; the Church will be captured, the houses of prayer ransacked, and the denoninations defiled. Half of the Church Body will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from My Church. Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. (Zechariah 14:1-3)

The story of the ten virgins

1“At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4The wise ones, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps.5The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.

6“At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’

7“Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’

9“ ‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’

10“But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.

11“Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’

12“But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’ (Matthew 25:1-12)
 
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TaiKamiya720

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Think about that. If the Bible says plainly that Homosexuality is a sin, how can it make sense to call yourself a Christian, but yet support something that God hates? Isn't that being double minded? 1 Corinthians 10:21, 1 John 2:15-17 and James 4:4, as well as the rest of the Bible as well as common sense can give you a good plain answer.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Heterosexuality is not a sin. Homosexuality is a sin as defined by God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, (10) nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (11) And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

You're not listening to us, nor to scripture. Read the scripture again.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who PRACTICE homosexuality, (10) nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (11) And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Why did Paul say "practice" when to be called a thief or drunkard is one who DOES practice their sin. He did not say alcoholic? Because not all alcoholics are still PRACTICING, some have overcome; but a drunkard is called a drunkard due to his unwillingness and his powerlessness to remain sober.

You can resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

So open up your mind to the context of what you are reading. What's funny is you acknowledged "practice" in 1 John 3:8-9. Whey not here???

Homosexuals were not made that way. It is an emotional condition. Basically all children are drawn to their own sex to play, but grow up normally and follow their peers toward normal sexuality. But there are those who were mainly abused as a child, and grow up either hating the opposite sex, craving the approval of the absent or undemonstrative parent, or just plain accept and receive that same demon, becoming the depraved type of person that abused them. There are other dysfunctional things parents or others can do to children to damage them. Unfortunately they were never given the therapy need, or deliverance when signs appeared when they acted out.
 
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1stcenturylady

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All who suffer and are hurting are the "least of these brethren of Mine".

-CryptoLutheran

Could be. But I do know the early Christians helped each other so that none were lacking. That should be our first priority because they ARE your brethren. From there should be outreach.
 
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JoeP222w

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1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who PRACTICE homosexuality, (10) nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (11) And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Why did Paul say "practice" when to be called a thief or drunkard is one who DOES practice their sin. He did not say alcoholic? Because not all alcoholics are still PRACTICING, some have overcome; but a drunkard is called a drunkard due to his unwillingness and his powerlessness to remain sober.

If a person is in Christ, they no long identify as their former sin. For a person to call themselves a Christian and calling themselves a liar, to call themselves a "liar Christian" is absurd. Likewise, their is no such thing as a "thief Christian" or a "murderer Christian" or "adulterous Christian". There is no such thing as a "homosexual Christian", regardless if they act on it or not. If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation, the former things are gone. For someone to be in Christ and continue to identify themselves as a "homosexual but remaining celibate" is absurd. That does not mean that someone who was a former homosexual will not struggle greatly with homosexual attraction. It does not mean that a person in Christ never sins again. But the Christian turns from sin and temptation, even if it is based in the heart and not a direct action. And when a Christian sins and comes under the Holy Spirit's conviction of that sin, regardless of what that sin, either thought, word or deed, they repent of it and look once again to Christ.

Matthew 5 shows that God judges the heart. If a person lusts after someone, yet never acts on it, God considers them guilty of adultery. So if a person believes they have a homosexual orientation, and are told that they are ok if they never act on it, that is not a biblical truth, because God says the heart is desperately sick and no one can understand it. God says we need a heart change, not only a behavioral change. And from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks and the person acts, whether that be righteousness or evil.

Homosexuals were not made that way. It is an emotional condition. Basically all children are drawn to their own sex to play, but grow up normally and follow their peers toward normal sexuality. But there are those who were mainly abused as a child, and grow up either hating the opposite sex, craving the approval of the absent or undemonstrative parent, or just plain accept and receive that same demon, becoming the depraved type of person that abused them. There are other dysfunctional things parents or others can do to children to damage them. Unfortunately they were never given the therapy need, or deliverance when signs appeared when they acted out.

You are implying that homosexuality is a product of environment. I would heartily disagree. While environment may have an effect, I would assert that there are many homosexuals that did not grow up in an abusive or neglected environment and yet still choose homosexuality, because the inherent nature of man is evil, not good.

No amount of therapy frees someone from the bondage of sin, no matter what that sin is. They need a heart transformation and that comes only from the Savior Jesus Christ, by His grace alone, by faith alone.
 
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1stcenturylady

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If a person is in Christ, they no long identify as their former sin. For a person to call themselves a Christian and calling themselves a liar, to call themselves a "liar Christian" is absurd. Likewise, their is no such thing as a "thief Christian" or a "murderer Christian" or "adulterous Christian". There is no such thing as a "homosexual Christian", regardless if they act on it or not. If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation, the former things are gone. For someone to be in Christ and continue to identify themselves as a "homosexual but remaining celibate" is absurd. That does not mean that someone who was a former homosexual will not struggle greatly with homosexual attraction. It does not mean that a person in Christ never sins again. But the Christian turns from sin and temptation, even if it is based in the heart and not a direct action. And when a Christian sins and comes under the Holy Spirit's conviction of that sin, regardless of what that sin, either thought, word or deed, they repent of it and look once again to Christ.

Matthew 5 shows that God judges the heart. If a person lusts after someone, yet never acts on it, God considers them guilty of adultery. So if a person believes they have a homosexual orientation, and are told that they are ok if they never act on it, that is not a biblical truth, because God says the heart is desperately sick and no one can understand it. God says we need a heart change, not only a behavioral change. And from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks and the person acts, whether that be righteousness or evil.



You are implying that homosexuality is a product of environment. I would heartily disagree. While environment may have an effect, I would assert that there are many homosexuals that did not grow up in an abusive or neglected environment and yet still choose homosexuality, because the inherent nature of man is evil, not good.

No amount of therapy frees someone from the bondage of sin, no matter what that sin is. They need a heart transformation and that comes only from the Savior Jesus Christ, by His grace alone, by faith alone.

I think Paul would have said just plain homosexual instead of practicing homosexual. But you can believe what you want and be wrong, or believe the apostle and be right. It is you who are calling a person who never practiced homosexuality, but isn't attracted to the opposite sex, a homosexual, thus damned.
 
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FireDragon76

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If a person is in Christ, they no long identify as their former sin. For a person to call themselves a Christian and calling themselves a liar, to call themselves a "liar Christian" is absurd.

In my church that is one of the central ideas, it is called "simul iustus et peccator", that we are both righteous and yet we are also sinners, at the same time. So yes, Christians do lie and do steal. It may not be our ideals, but it is the reality.
 
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JoeP222w

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I think Paul would have said just plain homosexual instead of practicing homosexual.

It does not really what you think he would have said, what matters is what he actually said.

Romans 1:26-27 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; (27) and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Passion, sinful passion, such as a man desiring a man, is a heart orientation, and is something to be repented of, and something the individual needs to have changed by God if they would be righteous before God.

It is you who are calling a person who never practiced homosexuality, but isn't attracted to the opposite sex, a homosexual, thus damned.

This a false argument and I don't accept the separation of homosexual from homosexuality. If a person claims to be homosexual, then they are under the category of homosexuality. Similarly if one is a heterosexual, they are under the category of heterosexuality. To think that these things can be separated from one another is simply a bogus claim. It would be similar to claiming a person is a human but not in the category of humanity. That is nonsense.
 
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JoeP222w

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So yes, Christians do lie and do steal.
Yes, I agree they do, but they do not make a habitual, lifelong practice of it and claim that such lying and stealing are righteous acts before God. If they do claim that their sin is a righteous act, they are walking in darkness.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Could be. But I do know the early Christians helped each other so that none were lacking. That should be our first priority because they ARE your brethren. From there should be outreach.

Luke 10:25-37

"Who is my neighbor?"

Everyone. Everyone is your neighbor, love everyone. The Parable of the Good Samaritan intentionally tells us that belonging to our "in-group" is irrelevant here. Samaritans were regarded by Jews as both culturally and religiously alien, by having the Samaritan as the one who helps the man Jesus erodes religious and cultural and ethnic barriers and teaches us that EVERYONE is our neighbor and we are to love EVERYONE. There's no favorites here. "He sends His rain upon the just and the unjust alike" and "He is good to the ungrateful and the wicked"--"Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful".

Christians aren't tribalists, favoring our own over others--we love, we give, we lay down our lives willingly and happily for others--even for those who despise us, curse us, and would wish to destroy us. "What credit is it to you if you love only those who love you as well?"

-CryptoLutheran
 
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1stcenturylady

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Luke 10:25-37

"Who is my neighbor?"

Everyone. Everyone is your neighbor, love everyone. The Parable of the Good Samaritan intentionally tells us that belonging to our "in-group" is irrelevant here. Samaritans were regarded by Jews as both culturally and religiously alien, by having the Samaritan as the one who helps the man Jesus erodes religious and cultural and ethnic barriers and teaches us that EVERYONE is our neighbor and we are to love EVERYONE. There's no favorites here. "He sends His rain upon the just and the unjust alike" and "He is good to the ungrateful and the wicked"--"Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful".

Christians aren't tribalists, favoring our own over others--we love, we give, we lay down our lives willingly and happily for others--even for those who despise us, curse us, and would wish to destroy us. "What credit is it to you if you love only those who love you as well?"

-CryptoLutheran

You make some very good points. :)
 
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elliott95

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If you like the chicken at Chik-a-filet, then by all means eat there.
Chik-a-filter boycott is an anti-Christian cause. It is anyone's right to join into the cause, but if you believe in traditional family values, like Chik-a-filet does, that does not mean that you have to wear the white pointy hat and burn crosses, like a KKK member.
It means you like the chicken, and you do not have a problem with a restaurant supporting Christian churches and traditional family values.
It is up to your sister whether she still want to be your friend and spend time with you. If she values her politics more than she values you, that is on her more than on you. You are entitled to hold onto pro-Christian values, just like the LBGT community is entitled to rally behind anti-Christian causes, such as a boycott of Chik-a-filet.
 
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1stcenturylady

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It does not really what you think he would have said, what matters is what he actually said.

Romans 1:26-27 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; (27) and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Passion, sinful passion, such as a man desiring a man, is a heart orientation, and is something to be repented of, and something the individual needs to have changed by God if they would be righteous before God.



This a false argument and I don't accept the separation of homosexual from homosexuality. If a person claims to be homosexual, then they are under the category of homosexuality. Similarly if one is a heterosexual, they are under the category of heterosexuality. To think that these things can be separated from one another is simply a bogus claim. It would be similar to claiming a person is a human but not in the category of humanity. That is nonsense.

You may have already answered this and I missed it, but 1 John 1:8 says, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

Do you call yourself a sinner or sinless?
 
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JoeP222w

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You may have already answered this and I missed it, but 1 John 1:8 says, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

Do you call yourself a sinner or sinless?

I am a sinner saved by the grace of God alone, in Jesus Christ alone, by faith alone, being sanctified by His truth. When God looks at me, He sees the righteousness of Jesus Christ. I have been adopted into His family. I am seated in the Heavenly places and I am a new creation. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. I no longer identify myself with the sins of the past, present or future. I repent of sin daily, even hourly, by the grace of God. I am dead to sin and no longer in bondage to it.

If one claims and identifies themselves to be "homosexual", how are they identifying themselves with Christ (for Christ has no partnership with sin)?
 
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1stcenturylady

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I am a sinner saved by the grace of God alone, in Jesus Christ alone, by faith alone, being sanctified by His truth. When God looks at me, He sees the righteousness of Jesus Christ. I have been adopted into His family. I am seated in the Heavenly places and I am a new creation. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. I no longer identify myself with the sins of the past, present or future. I repent of sin daily, even hourly, by the grace of God. I am dead to sin and no longer in bondage to it.

If one claims and identifies themselves to be "homosexual", how are they identifying themselves with Christ (for Christ has no partnership with sin)?

We aren't talking about someone who "claims" to be a homosexual, but one who "practices" homosexuality. Is every person not attracted to the opposite sex, yet maintains complete abstinence and does not yield to temptation, damned in your eyes? If they love God and obey Him, are they still damned because they have never had "normal" attractions?

What about someone who was a practicing homosexual, who comes to God and abstains? Are they still a homosexual, as you claim to still be a sinner? It is the SIN that damns you, not your past that you have overcome.

And BTW, if you are still committing willful sin, and think you are saved of those sins by grace - WRONG! But if you were a sinner, but no longer sin by the power of grace, then you know the true meaning of grace. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Grace. He has made you dead to sin. If your old carnal flesh is still alive and kicking, Romans 8:9 says, that person does not belong to Christ. Christ said, "If you love me, KEEP My commandments." A person who sins is not keeping Christ's commands.
 
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JoeP222w

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Is every person not attracted to the opposite sex, yet maintains complete abstinence and does not yield to temptation, damned in your eyes?

It does not matter what I think or how I view it. This is a gospel issue. Are you saying a homosexual person does not need salvation because they are righteous before Him, as long as they don't "act" on their desires?

It matters what God says:

Matthew 5:27-28 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ (28) But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Romans 3:10-12 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; (11) no one understands; no one seeks for God. (12) All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”

Romans 3:23-24 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (24) and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 3:17-19 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. (18) Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. (19) And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, (9) not a result of works, so that no one may boast. (10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

If they love God and obey Him, are they still damned because they have never had "normal" attractions?

See above.

What about someone who was a practicing homosexual, who comes to God and abstains?

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Romans 3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.


Are they still a homosexual, as you claim to still be a sinner? It is the SIN that damns you, not your past that you have overcome.

That does not work as in the previous post you attempting to trap me. If I sin now, it is against my will, and I repent of it. If one claims to be a homosexual, claims being homosexual is not a sin, does not repent of it, that is willful sin. I reject your assertion that being homosexual is not a sin, and you have never proven that using the whole counsel of scripture.

if you are still committing willful sin, and think you are saved of those sins by grace - WRONG!

Romans 7:7-25 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” (8) But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. (9) I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. (10) The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. (11) For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. (12) So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. (13) Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. (14) For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. (15) For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. (16) Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. (17) So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. (18) For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. (19) For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. (20) Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. (21) So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. (22) For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, (23) but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. (24) Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? (25) Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
 
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The Times

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Standing up against the sins of the world is a commendable and honourable thing to do in the sight of God, especially when you are hated for doing so. Not standing up against sin or even condoning it, is unloving and is treasonous to God.

People, on the issue of lawless homosexual practices, will either stand with God or they will fall with the world . Do not be ashamed of God and his Christ, even when the world hates you.
 
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1stcenturylady

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It does not matter what I think or how I view it. This is a gospel issue. Are you saying a homosexual person does not need salvation because they are righteous before Him, as long as they don't "act" on their desires?

It matters what God says:

Matthew 5:27-28 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ (28) But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Romans 3:10-12 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; (11) no one understands; no one seeks for God. (12) All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”

Romans 3:23-24 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (24) and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 3:17-19 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. (18) Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. (19) And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, (9) not a result of works, so that no one may boast. (10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.



See above.



John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Romans 3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.




That does not work as in the previous post you attempting to trap me. If I sin now, it is against my will, and I repent of it. If one claims to be a homosexual, claims being homosexual is not a sin, does not repent of it, that is willful sin. I reject your assertion that being homosexual is not a sin, and you have never proven that using the whole counsel of scripture.



Romans 7:7-25 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” (8) But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. (9) I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. (10) The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. (11) For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. (12) So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. (13) Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. (14) For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. (15) For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. (16) Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. (17) So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. (18) For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. (19) For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. (20) Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. (21) So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. (22) For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, (23) but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. (24) Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? (25) Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

You did see where I said "comes to God" didn't you. So your first question is deliberately obtuse. And you are using Romans completely out of context.

You said, "If one claims to be a homosexual, claims being homosexual is not a sin, does not repent of it, that is willful sin. I reject your assertion that being homosexual is not a sin, and you have never proven that using the whole counsel of scripture."

Where have I ever said that practicing same sex sex is NOT a sin? If a homosexual comes to Christ and abstains from their desires because of their desire to obey God, are they still damned? They resist their desires and are overcomers, yet you claim they can't be a Christian. Isn't that enough, or must they also start desiring the opposite sex, even though they are not healed of their emotional affliction. Must we walk in complete physical and mental health before we can claim to be saved? Giving up all for Christ is not enough??? I would worry about yourself if you still sin, than thinking you are better than an overcomer.
 
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