Legalism

[Natsumi Lam]

Hi Family,

Is Christian legalism ever ok?

If yes, when and what circumstances does it make it ok?

Why does it have such a negative connotation?

~ Natsumi Lam~

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Hi Family,

Is Christian legalism ever ok?

If yes, when and what circumstances does it make it ok?

Why does it have such a negative connotation?

~ Natsumi Lam~

Christian legalism is a practice that turns grace into a law.

I can't abide with that.

It has a negative connotation 1) because it communicates that Jesus died in vain and 2) it implies cult behavior and controlling motives.

 

[Danielwright2311]

Jesus set us free from religion and most all legalism is strait from religious belief's and practice.

The only things we follow is Jesus and Gods commandments.

 

[anna ~ grace]

Hi Family,

Is Christian legalism ever ok?

If yes, when and what circumstances does it make it ok?

Why does it have such a negative connotation?

~ Natsumi Lam~

Legalism probably means very different things to everyone.

For me.... I have met Christians who are deeply convicted that Christian women should only wear skirts or dresses. Scripture asks Christian women to dress modestly, but does not command only skirts or dresses. While having a personal conviction like this for your own life is fine, looking down on others who don't share your conviction, or making your conviction out to be a salvation issue, could be described as legalistic.

 

[ilovejcsog]

Jesus set us free from religion and most all legalism is strait from religious belief's and practice.

The only things we follow is Jesus and Gods commandments.

I always like what you have to say!
Thank you

 

[chevyontheriver]

Legalism probably means very different things to everyone.

For me.... I have met Christians who are deeply convicted that Christian women should only wear skirts or dresses. Scripture asks Christian women to dress modestly, but does not command only skirts or dresses. While having a personal conviction like this for your own life is fine, looking down on others who don't share your conviction, or making your conviction out to be a salvation issue, could be described as legalistic.

Then there is legalism in requiring a 10% tithe. All sorts of legalisms.

 

[Noxot]

well if the dungeons and dragons 3.5e alignments are true then yes "lawful good" is real just as "lawful neutral" and "lawful evil" are.

legalism is okay and I doubt that humans can fully escape from it but like many things it requires mind and humanity to function properly in. once something reduces humanity to what it is it then becomes evil.

I actually can't find that much of a use for legalism for people who embrace the kingdom of God, prove me wrong. legalism, what even is it? it's a bunch of things people do when everyone else is their enemy. legalism is one of the main things humans use to try to gain an evolutionary advantage in the world.

 

[HeartenedHeart]

Hi Family,

Is Christian legalism ever ok?

There are two ditches:

[1] license (to sin, transgression of God's law; 1 John 3:4), which is what most teach today, for they say it is perfectly fine to violate the 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11), by various ways/teachings (which are error, and contradictory to one another):

[2] legalism (an attempt to keep God's law for justification, for salvation, which is also sin, refusing God's offer; Galatians 5:4). Please note that this is not the same as keeping God's Law (which is of love) because one is delivered and loves in return for that free gift (John 14:15; Exodus 20:6). The first is an attempt from the root of self, while the latter is the fruit that results from Christ Jesus.

Both [1] and [2] are error.

God's Law (Exo. 20:1-17) was never meant to be transgressed, and was never meant for justification/salvation. It is a transcript of God's perfect character, and standard of living, the measurement of living in His kingdom of love, and points out sin (Romans 7:7).

The Law of God is a mirror into which mankind may look to see God's perfect character, Exodus 33:12-23, 34:1-9, 20:5-7. Notice the connection of His name, which is who God is, with His Law, a transcript of Himself.

The Law of God has two sides, the side of Mercy/Grace (Exodus 20:2,6; John 14:15) and Justice (Exodus 20:5). Most only look at one side, either only Mercy/Grace or only Justice, which is another kind of error. It is both/and, not either/or. Examples:

Joh. 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Joh. 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

If yes, when and what circumstances does it make it ok?

Legalism is never 'ok', because it is simply sin from the other avenue.

Why does it have such a negative connotation?

The Pharisees, Sadducees, scribes, etc of Jesus' day were in the bondage of legalism. Having thousands of man-made rules, in addition to God's Law, to attempt to be, and remain 'perfect', and yet through all that false system of works, they were still in sin, having rejected God's offer of mercy/grace, which is strength to keep God's law the way He asked.

Ultimately, 'legalism' rejects God, and places the focus upon the human effort, not the Divine offer.

~ Natsumi Lam~

I hope that was helpful.

 

[HeartenedHeart]

Then there is legalism in requiring a 10% tithe. All sorts of legalisms.

Returning "tithe" (as God asks/commands) is not legalism if done with the right heart/motive. It only becomes legalism when done in the wrong heart (ie to earn salvation through merit/effort), but mankind cannot actually re-pay God, since all things are God's.

Tithe is required of the born-again Christian and is seen from Gen. to Rev. To refuse to return it unto God, is sin (1 John 3:4).

Most do not understand what 'tithe' is to begin with, neither what heart God requires in returning it. However, there are none who need remain in ignorance (not knowing) on this subject, but all may come to understanding of its purpose and deep significance in living in God's kingdom, and what it has to do with the plan of redemption.

Pro. 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

 

[FireDragon76]

Legalism is a profound confusion of Law and Gospel, or in some cases, making up new laws altogether.

 

[Gordon Wright]

Legalism doesn't work. That's the bottom line. It's a dead end.

Nothing else need be said about legalism, but I've got something to say about legalists. I was in a church that would never call itself legalistic, but it was precisely that. The Pharisees reveled in their legalism because they didn't know any better. Christians don't have the option of taking that attitude, but they can be legalistic and in denial about it. ("Oh, we're not legalistic! We're just radical disciples!" No, you're legalistic.)

The important thing is to know how to recognize it, so you can avoid it. There are no warning labels because denial, but there's a kind of smell to it. Part of that smell is the smell of denial - the fishy odor of bad faith. Another part is the smell of fear - faint but ever present.

But if you don't recognize the smell, or if you choose to disregard it (I made that mistake) then you'll just have to go all the way down that dead end and look around. Then look back at the road that led you there. Notice how it all looks different in hindsight. Then head back the other way.

 

[MyChainsAreGone]

You've been given a lot of "formal" definitions of legalism... that are accurate in the traditional sense, but are weak in a practical sense.

There are lots of churches and Christians that are legalistic, but they don't think they are because they DO teach that salvation is by Grace and not works.

But the deadliness of legalism is not limited to the means of salvation... there are a whole bunch of genuine Christians that have succumbed to the spirit of legalism.

Let me give you a more practical definition of legalism...

Legalism is creating man-made rules for righteousness, then using those rules to assess the spiritual condition of a person.

Often, the legalist has the purist of intentions... they want to live in God's righteousness. The problem is the man-made rules!

This is the sort of legalism that was expressed by the Pharisees in Jesus' day. Even Paul claimed to be a Pharisee to the end of his life... Pharisees were super zealous for living a life right with God and in compliance with His will. That part is good. But it's the man-made rules that are the problem.

The Pharisees had this nasty habit of creating rules that God had not given... in the honest attempt to help people follow God's real rules (stated in Scripture). To be clear, anyone can make such "rules" of their own and follow them for their own sake, but they have to remember that following that rule is their own choice and not a divine requirement for all people.

The real damage comes when the Pharisee then uses their man-made rule for righteousness to assess the spiritual condition of other people.

This is something that many churches and Christians do. Sadly, they typically do not even know that they have done so. They are simply "convinced" that the rule they are following is actually God's rule... so they feel justified in expecting others to follow them.. and if they don't, they have a diminished view of that person's standing before God.

The sad thing about the man-made rules is that it's totally possible for someone to faithfully follow all the "important" man-made rules, all the while having a heart that is hostile or disobedient to God. At the same time, it's possible that a person who is completely and purely devoted to God may not follow the man-made rules at all.

Man-made rules do not focus on the heart... God's rules are about the heart.

And the sad thing is that the man-made rules for righteousness do not even help a person follow God's real rules... and since they are focused the man-made rules, they are literally distracted from applying their attention to living righteously before God in their heart.

The most important verse I know of that speaks to the uselessness of man-made rules for righteousness is Colossians 2:20-23 (NASB).

20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? 23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.

(emphasis mine)

Meditate on that verse... it is THE death-blow to legalism (man-made rules for righteousness).

 

[Gordon Wright]

It's not easy to spot these man made rules. They are often disguised as principles derived from Scripture. The only way to detect the deception is to read all Scripture in context. Never, ever accept an isolated verse as proof that the Bible says something.

Warning sign: a list of Bible verses (not passages) found scattered all through the Bible.

Warning sign: talk of discipleship as if it applies to all believers IN THE EXACT SAME SENSE it applied in the Apostolic era.

 

[MyChainsAreGone]

It's not easy to spot these man made rules. They are often disguised as principles derived from Scripture. The only way to detect the deception is to read all Scripture in context. Never, ever accept an isolated verse as proof that the Bible says something.

Warning sign: a list of Bible verses (not passages) found scattered all through the Bible.

Warning sign: talk of discipleship as if it applies to all believers IN THE EXACT SAME SENSE it applied in the Apostolic era.

Good post.

I would suggest another "sign" for man-made rules... as found in Colossians 2:20-23... they often sound like “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” and are characterized by "self-abasement and severe treatment of the body..."

They tend to not be very "human-friendly."

 

[Noxot]

Good post.

I would suggest another "sign" for man-made rules... as found in Colossians 2:20-23... they often sound like “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” and are characterized by "self-abasement and severe treatment of the body..."

They tend to not be very "human-friendly."

yeah sadly asceticism, while good, can get kind of dark sometimes.

~~~~~~~
sin has it's own laws it made and God has his own laws that are only understood in Christ. but liberty is associated with the Son of God and sin is associated with bondage. maybe the basic laws such as the milk of the word are so pure that they could hardly be considered to be legalistic.

Rom 7:21-23 (YLT)
I find, then, the law, that when I desire to do what is right, with me the evil is present, for I delight in the law of God according to the inward man, and I behold another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of the sin that is in my members.

 

[Gordon Wright]

They tend to not be very "human-friendly."

When I was in a legalistic church, much of my frustration was that their "principles" ruled out options to solve life problems, without giving anything to do instead. But I've found that the answer to all "temptation" is to have a viable non-sinful alternative.

For example, I tried to get in shape by trying not to eat so much and to exercise more. That just wasn't maintainable, until I came up with things to do instead of eating, and ways to exercise that didn't feel like a chore. Then I started making steady progress.

Legalists just don't get this. They are absolutely useless. I fell in with them because I genuinely wanted to grow spiritually, and they were no help at all. Then I noticed that they were all messed up themselves in various ways. Some of them were good at hiding it, though.

The only freedom that matters in daily life is the freedom to do what works. When they deny that freedom, something is very, very wrong.

 

[MyChainsAreGone]

I once taught a Sunday School class... and I decided to do the class on "Legalism."

Funny thing happened, though... God took my class on Legalism and turned it into a class about Shame.

I realized that people who gravitate towards the man-made-rule/legalist systems are driven to do so by Shame.

Shame, in my understanding, is that feeling of being unloved and unlovable, unworthy and worthless, unaccepted and unacceptable.

People will do almost anything to assuage their feelings of shame (think about the kid who's scared to death to jump off of a cliff into the swimming hole below, but because of the ridicule of his peers, he will do so).

So... when legalism offers a way to "know" that you're "accepted," "loved," and "worthy," just by following a set of rules, some people jump at the chance.

Sadly, it doesn't fix any of the deep issues driving their sense of shame, but because they can point to all the reasons that they ARE accepted (because of all the DO)... they hold fast to the rules that allow them to pretend to not feel their shame.

But there's more...

Even those who make those rules... the "leaders" who teach those rules to their followers/parishioners are also driven by personal shame. They make the rules that they believe themselves capable of fulfilling. They dispense their works-based acceptance so that their followers will affirm their own worth and value... and they crave that because of their own deep sense of shame!

Those who do not live with such deep shame have no patience with the shame/legalism peddlers.

Make no mistake... Shame is NEVER God's will for his children. Ever.

And that's why legalism is so wrong. It feeds and perpetuates shame, then offers a false "answer" to the very shame is forces on people.

David

 

[SkyWriting]

Hi Family,

Is Christian legalism ever ok?

If yes, when and what circumstances does it make it ok?

Why does it have such a negative connotation?

~ Natsumi Lam~

The law brings death.

However, legalists clinging to the Old Covenant
can be brought to faith and forgiveness if done gently.
What Does the Bible Say About Law Brings Death?

 

[Gordon Wright]

They make the rules that they believe themselves capable of fulfilling.

And here is how to defeat them. Point out all the ways that they themselves fail to live up to their own rules. Leverage their own lack of self awareness, their unconscious hypocrisy.

Yes, it's "divisive." You will likely be disfellowshipped. If that bothers you, then you might also have a shame problem.

Yes, if it works it may destroy the church. There are enough churches out there that we can spare a few bad ones.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

And here is how to defeat them. Point out all the ways that they themselves fail to live up to their own rules. Leverage their own lack of self awareness, their unconscious hypocrisy.

Yes, it's "divisive." You will likely be disfellowshipped. If that bothers you, then you might also have a shame problem.

Yes, if it works it may destroy the church. There are enough churches out there that we can spare a few bad ones.

Wow....