Legalism or Sunday keeping - what is the mark?

[Kenny'sID]

You seem to be advocating for some form of law keeping which is easily debunked. Grace can keep from sin much better than the law ever could. The law only increases sin and magnifies it.

Exodus 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Debunk that.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Grace can keep from sin much better than the law ever could. The law only increases sin and magnifies it.

Does the Grace you are referring to there mean if one has accepted Christ as his savior, no matter what they do, as long as they hold to that faith, they will be saved?

 

[1John2:4]

Have you ever heard of the law of faith or the law of the Spirit? Rom. 3:27; 8:2

Its the same law not some new law Let's finish Paul's thought.

Romans 3 : 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also,30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

 

[1John2:4]

As you can see in Romans 8:5 the flesh is contrary to the law of God so the law on our hearts is not contrary to the law of God and the Spirit of God is also not contrary to the law of God. They are one, not a house devided.

5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[bloodygrace]

Exodus 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Debunk that.

Keep the new commandment of love and maybe I'll be impressed. Jesus kept that commandment and he had to go to the cross to keep it. Can you do that?

 

[bloodygrace]

Does the Grace you are referring to there mean if one has accepted Christ as his savior, no matter what they do, as long as they hold to that faith, they will be saved?

Grace lifts us from the filth and sin of the world especially the legalism on this board, lol.

 

[bloodygrace]

Its the same law not some new law Let's finish Paul's thought.

Romans 3 : 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also,30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Legalists establish the law by trying to keep the commandments in the flesh and fail over and over again.

Christians establish the law by faith expressed in love and receive the 'well done good and faithful servant' from Christ their master.

 

[bloodygrace]

As you can see in Romans 8:5 the flesh is contrary to the law of God so the law on our hearts is not contrary to the law of God and the Spirit of God is also not contrary to the law of God. They are one, not a house devided.

5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

This is a picture of you and your legalistic righteousness! Too blind to see it?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Keep the new commandment of love and maybe I'll be impressed. Jesus kept that commandment and he had to go to the cross to keep it. Can you do that?

I honestly don't know what that means or where it came from. Are you saying I don't keep the commandment of love? Or that I didn't die on the cross as Jesus did?

And how does that address my comments?...it doesn't in the least. You completely changed the subject. Would you like to try again?

Grace lifts us from the filth and sin of the world especially the legalism on this board, lol.

You didn't answer the simple question. Why? Of course avoiding the truth is common in cases like this...actually it is the cause of cases like this. If you should decide to try again, stop tossing things in from left field, and stick with actually discussing this, I'll be listening.

 

[Kenny'sID]

This is a picture of you and your legalistic righteousness! Too blind to see it?

You only have to open your own eyes and pay close attention for a moment in order to see just how clear this is:

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

Only with a mental block could one pass that by without notice.

Legalists establish the law by trying to keep the commandments in the flesh and fail over and over again.

Christians establish the law by faith expressed in love and receive the 'well done good and faithful servant' from Christ their master.

Is that to say you do not fail at that over and over again with your way of doing things? Or that you do fail over and over again but that is not a concern because you are not under the law?

Unless you answer some of the questions, it's awful hard to get an idea of what you have going on...or maybe you want to keep things in that state so as not to incriminate?

 

[1John2:4]

This is a picture of you and your legalistic righteousness! Too blind to see it?

I was only quoting the rest of Paul's thoughts to prove that he was not preaching against Gods instructions. No need to result to name calling and insults. Perhaps you should heed Peter's warning when you read and study Paul so that you will not be lead away by the error of lawlessness.

2 Peter 3: 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked(lawlessness).

 

[1John2:4]

Legalists establish the law by trying to keep the commandments in the flesh and fail over and over again.

Christians establish the law by faith expressed in love and receive the 'well done good and faithful servant' from Christ their master.

Bloody Grace,
I just want to try to talk to you without the insults they are unnecessary we are both brothers/sisters in Christ. I understand by previous posts that you came out of a legalistic idealism and you are at war with it. I too believe that one can not be saved by our own righteousness apart from Yeshua. The problem comes in once we are saved. Once we are cleansed from sin we are now a new creation and we are not to return to our sin because the Spirit should be residing in us to keep us from retuning to sin and death. Sin is defined in 1 John as transgression of God's law. Once we are free from the bondage of sin and His Spirit resides within us we should no longer desire sin. I belive this is a process Paul states"work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" we should take care once we come to the knowledge of truth we are not ensnared by the enemy. Lawlessness is a real problem carefully read Matthew 7:21. My heart is heavy for you my friend I pray you will come to a love for the truth.

 

[Dave-W]

But the Rabbi has been doing a wonderful set of teachings during the meetings. "Amazing" is the theme for the set. So far we have had "Grace" on Erev Yom Teruah, and "Righteouisness" in the daytime Yom Teruah service. 2 more to come on Yom Kippur.

The one on Righteousness IMO needs to be posted here for BG to hear. It may convince him we are NOT the judaizers he thinks we all are (both MJ and SDA).

Amazing Righteousness:
http://www.sonofdavid.org/sermons/rosh-hashana-amazing-righteousness/

Amazing Salvation:
http://www.sonofdavid.org/sermons/erev-yom-kippur-gods-amazing-salvation/

Amazing Savior: (day of atonement)
http://www.sonofdavid.org/sermons/yom-kippur-our-amazing-savior/

 

[Landon Caeli]

It must be Sunday keeping -the only logical explanation

 

[Dave-W]

Legalists establish the law by trying to keep the commandments in the flesh and fail over and over again.

BG - I will give you the benefit of the doubt (correct me if I am wrong) but you DO understand the difference between "law" and "legalism," right?

I will agree the legalist will attempt to obey the Law by his own strength. (a fool's endeavor)

But what about the believer who obeys the Law by the power and strength of the Holy Spirit?

As Asher Intrater once said - "On one Shavuot (pentecost) God gave the Commandments. On another Shavuot some 1500 years later He gave the ability to obey the commandments."

 

[bloodygrace]

I honestly don't know what that means or where it came from. Are you saying I don't keep the commandment of love? Or that I didn't die on the cross as Jesus did?

And how does that address my comments?...it doesn't in the least. You completely changed the subject. Would you like to try again?

Kenny, what you and so many others fail to realize is that Jesus did often command the Jews to keep the law prior to the cross. Technically, before the cross the old covenant was still in effect so he had every right to do that. What you cannot do is show where he ever commanded law or Sabbath observance on the Gentiles or Christians. Please show me those verses. Thanks!

 

[bloodygrace]

Bloody Grace,
I just want to try to talk to you without the insults they are unnecessary we are both brothers/sisters in Christ. I understand by previous posts that you came out of a legalistic idealism and you are at war with it. I too believe that one can not be saved by our own righteousness apart from Yeshua. The problem comes in once we are saved. Once we are cleansed from sin we are now a new creation and we are not to return to our sin because the Spirit should be residing in us to keep us from retuning to sin and death. Sin is defined in 1 John as transgression of God's law. Once we are free from the bondage of sin and His Spirit resides within us we should no longer desire sin. I belive this is a process Paul states"work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" we should take care once we come to the knowledge of truth we are not ensnared by the enemy. Lawlessness is a real problem carefully read Matthew 7:21. My heart is heavy for you my friend I pray you will come to a love for the truth.

The other definition of sin is that anything which is not of faith is sin Rom. 14:23. A violation of the law of faith. So sin goes much deeper than an outward observance of the law. Sin is a state of unbelief so all the admonitions by Paul and the apostles to live above sin are admonitions to maintain our faith-based relationship with Christ. Taking my spiritual eyes off of Christ and trusting in my human performance (law) is the highest sin according to the new testament.

 

[bloodygrace]

It must be Sunday keeping -the only logical explanation

Sunday is the blessed day of the resurrection of Christ. The 8th day which was important in the Jewish rite of circumcision that pointed forward to the circumcision of Christ. Sabbath is the old day of the law and Sunday is the new day of grace. I choose Sunday, my favorite day of the week - Sunday funday.

 

[Dave-W]

What you cannot do is show where he ever commanded law or Sabbath observance on the Gentiles or Christians. Please show me those verses. Thanks!

Risen Messiah speaking:

Matt 28.18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

"Commanded" is in past tense, referring to His time BEFORE the cross.

What did HE command? Obedience to the Law.
Some of it? "ALL that I Commanded..."

 

[1John2:4]

The other definition of sin is that anything which is not of faith is sin Rom. 14:23. A violation of the law of faith. So sin goes much deeper than an outward observance of the law. Sin is a state of unbelief so all the admonitions by Paul and the apostles to live above sin are admonitions to maintain our faith-based relationship with Christ. Taking my spiritual eyes off of Christ and trusting in my human performance (law) is the highest sin according to the new testament.

Faith goes much deeper than just a thought or idea. If one truly has faith it is carried out by the individual by their actions. If I have faith in God who is the Father and Yeshua the Son I will follow their instructions because I believe that what I am following is truth. I am going to use a worldly example that most of us, at least those of us in the US struggle with. I desire to loose some weight and so I believe that if I eat a healthy diet and exercise I will loose the weight. Now if I just believe I am going to loose the weight and never choose to diet and exercise will I ever loose weight? I realize that this example seams silly but it is true in our walk of faith. Here is a biblical example in the The book of James.

James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

We are called to walk as Yeshua did 1 John 2:5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

We are called to walk as He walked and he walked in the instructions of the Father, we too are to follow the instructions of our Heavenly Father just as Yeshua did. Not to earn salvation but because we are in Him and He is in us