Legalism or Sunday keeping - what is the mark?

What is the mark of the beast?


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bloodygrace

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there is no such thing as "bible from the bosom of Abraham" -- please make up less stuff.



indeed Sunday keeping is not the mark of the beast - or else it would have been marked on Christians for many centuries. I already pointed that out - in detail here - (click the link)
Yesterday at 4:15 PM #46


And yet - there is also a lot of truth in what our Catholic friends say here -- (just not 100% truth)

===========================================
The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues the SAME two points.

1965 -- first published 1959

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"
we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

========================================

hence it pays to "read" what was posted here - Yesterday at 4:15 PM #46



Do you attend some church where you can just make-stuff-up quote nothing at all from the Bible - and pass that off as doctrine?? Why do you keep doing that???

There are only two chapters in the entire Bible that deal with defining the mark of the beast and they are Revelation 13 and 14. So far your entire approach has been to "quote you" and ignore the Bible entirely on the subject of "mark of the beast".

Why are you doing that??

You've been brain-washed Bob. God puts his people under the law for a certain time and then he commands them to come out to a life of faith. He did the same thing with the Jews. The law is a death sentence.
 
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bloodygrace

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Nice! I spent a lot of last week in the blue ridge mountains near Boone NC - taking a week "sabbatical" - lots of time for worship... great vacation.

Did you consider that the Sabbath is just a shadow of the rest that Christ can give 24/7?
 
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BobRyan

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Did you consider that the Sabbath is just a shadow of the rest that Christ can give 24/7?

Isaiah 66:23 says that in the new earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship".

Do you agree that the new earth is after the cross - or is this also a point of confusion?

My belief is that the death of Christ was given in animal-sacrifice shadows.

But the Genesis 2:1-3 Sabbath has no animal sacrifice and was made for mankind - and is to be kept by all mankind for all eternity - even in the New Earth.
 
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BobRyan

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You've been brain-washed Bob.

More "you quoting you" -- not every convincing quite frankly.

Jer 31:31-33 "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind" -- this is the NEW COVENANT and the term for LAW would have to be defined as Jeremiah would have written and meant it - for his readers.

And we all know that includes the TEN Commandments.
 
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BobRyan

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Personal experience of 10 years of SDA legalism.

So then - is it your claim that the "Westminster Confession of Faith" -- "Does not exist"?
That the "Baptist Confession of Faith" -- "Does not exist"?

Is it your claim that simply "quoting you" is really better than accepting what the Bible says??

You appear to have "admitted" that your imaginary doctrine that "the mark of the beast is legalism' -- is "sourced" from your own imagination and angst against Seventh-day Adventists.

Is it your claim that "imagination and angst" are a valid basis for "making stuff up" such as 'Legalism is the mark of the beast"?? That is basically an "appeal to emotion" and not biblical at all in the "need" you show to ignore the chapters that deal with the subject.

Why keep avoiding the actual Bible chapters that discuss the topic YOU started???
 
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1John2:4

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Personal experience of 10 years of SDA legalism. My heart weeps for the misery they will most likely never escape.
Many people get hurt by the church, I was deeply hurt by the Baptist Church but that does not change what Gods commandments are. We are commissioned to go and make deciples to do and teach His commandments in order to be great in the kingdom. I am sorry you had a bad experience in the Adventist Church. There are ignorant people in every church and very wonderful people as well. I just would not make it so personal against every Adventist. I truly am sorry that you were hurt.
 
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bloodygrace

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Isaiah 66:23 says that in the new earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship".

Do you agree that the new earth is after the cross - or is this also a point of confusion?

My belief is that the death of Christ was given in animal-sacrifice shadows.

But the Genesis 2:1-3 Sabbath has no animal sacrifice and was made for mankind - and is to be kept by all mankind for all eternity - even in the New Earth.

Once again Bob your OT proof texts lack punch. The Sabbath in a world of sin is also a shadow of the Sabbath in a world without sin. Do you agree that physical circumcision pointed forward to the circumcision of Christ? Maybe physical Sabbath keeping pointed forward to the rest of Christ that is finished 24/7. If you are going to push law keeping you have to keep the whole thing or you are guilty of all.
 
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bloodygrace

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More "you quoting you" -- not every convincing quite frankly.

Jer 31:31-33 "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind" -- this is the NEW COVENANT and the term for LAW would have to be defined as Jeremiah would have written and meant it - for his readers.

And we all know that includes the TEN Commandments.

Love is what is written in the heart. Love or 'agape' is the character of God himself. Also the bible says that love is the fulfilling of the law (Rom. 13:10) so we don't keep the law to fulfill it we receive God's love via the Holy Spirit.
 
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bloodygrace

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So then - is it your claim that the "Westminster Confession of Faith" -- "Does not exist"?
That the "Baptist Confession of Faith" -- "Does not exist"?

Is it your claim that simply "quoting you" is really better than accepting what the Bible says??

You appear to have "admitted" that your imaginary doctrine that "the mark of the beast is legalism' -- is "sourced" from your own imagination and angst against Seventh-day Adventists.

Is it your claim that "imagination and angst" are a valid basis for "making stuff up" such as 'Legalism is the mark of the beast"?? That is basically an "appeal to emotion" and not biblical at all in the "need" you show to ignore the chapters that deal with the subject.

Why keep avoiding the actual Bible chapters that discuss the topic YOU started???

My proof that legalism is the mark of the beast is you!
 
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bloodygrace

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Many people get hurt by the church, I was deeply hurt by the Baptist Church but that does not change what Gods commandments are. We are commissioned to go and make deciples to do and teach His commandments in order to be great in the kingdom. I am sorry you had a bad experience in the Adventist Church. There are ignorant people in every church and very wonderful people as well. I just would not make it so personal against every Adventist. I truly am sorry that you were hurt.

Thank you but if the truth be spoken I was the one hurting others because they weren't keeping the law as good as me. Sounds crazy but it really happened.
 
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bloodygrace

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Isaiah 66:23 says that in the new earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship".

Do you agree that the new earth is after the cross - or is this also a point of confusion?

My belief is that the death of Christ was given in animal-sacrifice shadows.

But the Genesis 2:1-3 Sabbath has no animal sacrifice and was made for mankind - and is to be kept by all mankind for all eternity - even in the New Earth.

I think it's important to address Bob's post more fully because he really is a false teacher. Paul argued over and over and over that circumcision was unnecessary for the Gentile Christians. Christians who were justified by faith in Christ were not required to be circumcised. This exact argument could just as easily be applied to the Sabbath day. The Sabbath is unnecessary for Christians who live by faith in Christ. His incessant Sabbath thumping would be like me going to Henry Ford if he were still alive and commanding him to buy a Chevrolet. This is the best analogy I can think of for commanding Jewish law on non-Jews. Ford and Chevy don't mix Bob and your SDA, mixed-up, hodgepodge blend of religions with the smorgasbord of random laws and the Sabbath as the flavor of the month is confusion!

As someone who has rejected the law in it's entirety and learned to live by grace alone I can say with all honesty that the grass is definitely greener on the other side. Cross my heart and hope to die. All my problems went away overnight when I learned to live by God's grace. Jesus can be very good to us when we learn to follow his will for our lives, just sayin'. When we boil this nonsense down to the essence there are only two possibilities for any believer. We can either convert to Judaism and keep the law in it's entirety or reject the law in it's entirety and live by grace alone thru faith alone in Christ alone. Any mixing of religions with random law keeping like the Sabbath day is a luke-warm nightmare where you trust in your works for security instead of trusting in the perfect and finished work of Christ.
 
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1John2:4

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I think it's important to address Bob's post more fully because he really is a false teacher. Paul argued over and over and over that circumcision was unnecessary for the Gentile Christians
Calling Bob a false teacher is flaming and its against the forum rules. Lets use kind words to eachother we are all brothers and sisters in Yeshua. The gentiles are not bound by circumcision. They never were unless they wanted to keep the Passover. What I don't understand is many cry we are under Abraham not Moses yet God gave circumcision to Abraham, and Abraham did not get circumsised until he was 99. Circumcision was an outside display of an inward change like baptism.
 
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1John2:4

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The Sabbath is unnecessary for Christians who live by faith in Christ.
Do you have scripture backing up this claim? I have read no where in scripture where God, Yeshua, the prophets, the apostles or any other writer ever made this claim. If you have the scripture that claims God did away with the Shabbat I will apologize for every Sabbath keeper on this whole forum.
 
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1John2:4

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We can either convert to Judaism and keep the law in it's entirety or reject the law in it's entirety and live by grace alone thru faith alone in Christ alone. Any mixing of religions with random law keeping like the Sabbath day is a luke-warm nightmare where you trust in your works for security instead of trusting in the perfect and finished work of Christ.
We are all one in Messiah. Lawlessness is the lukewarm read the churches in Revelation. Read about how they are judged by there works. It's interesting if you say it's Grace Alone btw the word alone is added to the scripture.

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
 
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bloodygrace

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Do you have scripture backing up this claim? I have read no where in scripture where God, Yeshua, the prophets, the apostles or any other writer ever made this claim. If you have the scripture that claims God did away with the Shabbat I will apologize for every Sabbath keeper on this whole forum.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Col. 2:16,17

Doesn't get any clearer than that! Shabbat was a Shabaddow.
 
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bloodygrace

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We are all one in Messiah. Lawlessness is the lukewarm read the churches in Revelation. Read about how they are judged by there works. It's interesting if you say it's Grace Alone btw the word alone is added to the scripture.

This is Jesus' definition of works:

I know thy works, and charity(love), and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. Rev. 2:19
 
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bloodygrace

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Calling Bob a false teacher is flaming and its against the forum rules. Lets use kind words to eachother we are all brothers and sisters in Yeshua.

I don't consider law keepers as my brothers and sisters 'in Christ'. They are enemies of the gospel.
 
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1John2:4

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Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Col. 2:16,17

Doesn't get any clearer than that! Shabbat was a Shabaddow.
Where does that say he abolished the Sabbath? And yes you should not judge Bob, me or any other Sabbath keeper for keeping the Shabbat or what we eat or drink on that day, because they are the shadows that point to the Messiah. That verse does not do away with the Sabbath.
Just some biblical caution when quoting Paul.

Peter writes
—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scripture.

17 You therefore, beloved, since you knowthis beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; (other translations say lawless)
 
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