Legalism or Sunday keeping - what is the mark?

[Kenny'sID]

Please show me those verses. Thanks!

So you want me to address what you ask yet I get nothing from you when I ask? How is that fair?

You would already know had you been paying attention..as in the verses that covered Jesus stating we are to keep the commandments, and that is a commandment. But instead you chose to skip over an avoid them.

OK, now it's your turn to answer my questions, or is there some reason you would rather not?

 

[bloodygrace]

Risen Messiah speaking:

Matt 28.18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

"Commanded" is in past tense, referring to His time BEFORE the cross.

What did HE command? Obedience to the Law.
Some of it? "ALL that I Commanded..."

Fail! Jesus commanded faith and love on both Jew and Gentile alike. And if we go to the seven churches of Revelation which are the actual words of Christ to the church there is not one command to keep the law or the Sabbath day. He did focus on works but he clarified those works as works of love, faith and patience.

 

[bloodygrace]

Faith goes much deeper than just a thought or idea. If one truly has faith it is carried out by the individual by their actions. If I have faith in God who is the Father and Yeshua the Son I will follow their instructions because I believe that what I am following is truth. I am going to use a worldly example that most of us, at least those of us in the US struggle with. I desire to loose some weight and so I believe that if I eat a healthy diet and exercise I will loose the weight. Now if I just believe I am going to loose the weight and never choose to diet and exercise will I ever loose weight? I realize that this example seams silly but it is true in our walk of faith. Here is a biblical example in the The book of James.

James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

We are called to walk as Yeshua did 1 John 2:5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

We are called to walk as He walked and he walked in the instructions of the Father, we too are to follow the instructions of our Heavenly Father just as Yeshua did. Not to earn salvation but because we are in Him and He is in us

James clarified his works as works of love from the royal law of scripture James 2:8. He also gave examples of how love treats our fellow man. Once again the fruit of gospel obedience are works of love.

 

[bloodygrace]

So you want me to address what you ask yet I get nothing from you when I ask? How is that fair?

You would already know had you been paying attention..as in the verses that covered Jesus stating we are to keep the commandments, and that is a commandment. But instead you chose to skip over an avoid them.

OK, now it's your turn to answer my questions, or is there some reason you would rather not?

Jesus never commanded Christians to keep the Sabbath day or the law. If he had it would have been recorded in his council to the seven churches of Revelation. You have failed to prove your case.

 

[1John2:4]

James clarified his works as works of love from the royal law of scripture James 2:8. He also gave examples of how love treats our fellow man. Once again the fruit of gospel obedience are works of love.

What do you believe the royal law is? Does the royal law not show us how to love God and to love others? The Word of God shows us how to love God and love others, Yeshua (the living Word of God) shows us how to love God and Love others and they are one.

James 1: 22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

In James 2:8 he is explaining how showing partiality is a sin. That is the same message that Yeshua taught if in Matthew 5 - 7 on the Mount of Olives when he spoke about keeping the law in spirit not just in letter or not to be a hypocrite. These are all principles taught in the law and the prophets.

 

[Dave-W]

Fail! Jesus commanded faith and love on both Jew and Gentile alike. And if we go to the seven churches of Revelation which are the actual words of Christ to the church there is not one command to keep the law or the Sabbath day. He did focus on works but he clarified those works as works of love, faith and patience.

OK - great. So now you just ignore HIS words and the Great Commission.

You're not winning any one over here.

 

[1John2:4]

Jesus never commanded Christians to keep the Sabbath day or the law. If he had it would have been recorded in his council to the seven churches of Revelation. You have failed to prove your case.

Matthew 22:36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”

Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Deuteronomy 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one! 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

6 “And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. 8 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. 9 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Jesus never commanded Christians to keep the Sabbath day or the law. If he had it would have been recorded in his council to the seven churches of Revelation. You have failed to prove your case.

Again, Jesus said all the law hangs on his two commandments, and if they are within his commandments, that means we should follow that law. That and he told the rich man he was to follow the commandments to be saved, flat out, no two ways about it. BTW, commandments are something we are commanded to do.

He puts his commandments in our hearts but I've no doubt, only if we let him.

Between being in such deep denial you cannot see what we've put right in front of you, and still being afraid to answer the questions, it's clear you want to do what you want to do. That's not so unusual these days of self and changing scripture to please ourselves over God, but that just shows where out faith really lies. But, again, you aren't alone...so many have chosen to be deceived by one teaching or another that often boils down to allowing them to do as they wish, but that doesn't make it any less sad.

 

[bloodygrace]

What do you believe the royal law is? Does the royal law not show us how to love God and to love others? The Word of God shows us how to love God and love others, Yeshua (the living Word of God) shows us how to love God and Love others and they are one.

James 1: 22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

In James 2:8 he is explaining how showing partiality is a sin. That is the same message that Yeshua taught if in Matthew 5 - 7 on the Mount of Olives when he spoke about keeping the law in spirit not just in letter or not to be a hypocrite. These are all principles taught in the law and the prophets.

Loving others by God's grace is totally different than going back to Moses and keeping the commandments. We are either under grace or under law. The belief that these can be mixed together is a fallacy.

 

[bloodygrace]

Again, Jesus said all the law hangs on his two commandments, and if they are within his commandments, that means we should follow that law. That and he told the rich man he was to follow the commandments to be saved, flat out, no two ways about it. BTW, commandments are something we are commanded to do.

He puts his commandments in our hearts but I've no doubt, only if we let him.

Between being in such deep denial you cannot see what we've put right in front of you, and still being afraid to answer the questions, it's clear you want to do what you want to do. That's not so unusual these days of self and changing scripture to please ourselves over God, but that just shows where out faith really lies. But, again, you aren't alone...so many have chosen to be deceived by one teaching or another that often boils down to allowing them to do as they wish, but that doesn't make it any less sad.

You completely ignored the council of Christ specifically to the church in Revelation. Those who so boastfully claim to only follow the words of Christ will never go there.

Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; Rev. 2:4,5

 

[Kenny'sID]

Those who so boastfully claim to only follow the words of Christ will never go there.

Who claimed that? not me....actually no one did or acted as if they only do that.No one is boasting here either, you are reading that into things.

Takes faith, good works and desire to keep the commandments.

Why would you pull such an accusation out of thin air for no reason? I'll tell you why, desperation... because the truth has been put right in front of you, and honestly, people do odd things when they are confronted with truth while in denial. Seriously, Ive seen people get way out there, much worse than what you are doing here,. Not judging just saying it's an absolute fact. The mix causes some type of short circuit.

James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without youra]">[a] works, and I will show you my faith by myb]">[b] works.

 

[bloodygrace]

Who claimed that? not me....actually no one did or acted as if they do.

Takes faith, good works and desire to keep the commandments.
Why would you pull such an accusation out of thin air for no reason? I'll tell you why, desperation... because the truth has been put right in front of you, and honestly, people do odd things when they are confronted with truth while in denial. Seriously, Ive seen people get way out there, much worse than what you are doing here,. Not judging just saying it's an absolute fact. The mix causes some type of short circuit.

James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without youra]">[a] works, and I will show you my faith by myb]">[b] works.

Yes Christians will have works of love. Paul calls them the fruits of the Spirit.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Gal. 5:22,23

I like the last part - against such there is no law!!!

 

[1John2:4]

Loving others by God's grace is totally different than going back to Moses and keeping the commandments. We are either under grace or under law. The belief that these can be mixed together is a fallacy.

The falicy is believing that grace of God is contrary to the law of God. They are not at odds with eachother, where in the Bible do you do you get this understanding?

 

[Kenny'sID]

I like the last part - against such there is no law!!!

What exactly does that mean to you?

 

[bloodygrace]

The falicy is believing that grace of God is contrary to the law of God. They are not at odds with eachother, where in the Bible do you do you get this understanding?

Yes they are. We are either under grace or under law. Those that mix the two are only fooling themselves.

 

[Kenny'sID]

What exactly does that mean to you?

I forgot for a moment you won't answer questions, and the fact that you know better than to do that says you know what is going on here.

Anyway, in context, if you will read the verse before that which you quoted, you will see it mentions all kinds of thing that are against the laws, so all that means by comparison, is there is no law against love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance...nothing more.

And BTW, lets read that verse that came just before the verse you posted... Galatians 5:16:

19The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; 20idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, 21and envy; drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Those are the laws he is comparing to love, joy, peace, and so forth, or the laws that are against the law. What does it tell you there will happen if we make a practice of breaking those laws?

And of course you won't answer, but I think even you can see it's a warning of a very clear outcome and that the law is still to be obeyed..

If you still don't see it, you simply refuse to and there isn't a whole lot anyone can do for you.

 

[bloodygrace]

What exactly does that mean to you?

I forgot for a moment you won't answer questions, and the fact that you know better than to do that says you know what is going on here.

Anyway, in context, if you will read the verse before that which you quoted, you will see it mentions all kinds of thing that are against the laws, so all that means by comparison, is there is no law against love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance...nothing more.

And BTW, lets read that verse that came just before the verse you posted... Galatians 5:16:

19The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; 20idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, 21and envy; drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Those are the laws he is comparing to love, joy, peace, and so forth, or the laws that are against the law. What does it tell you there will happen if we make a practice of breaking those laws?

And of course you won't answer, but I think even you can see it's a warning of a very clear outcome and that the law is still to be obeyed..

If you still don't see it, you simply refuse to and there isn't a whole lot anyone can do for you.

LOL. You can't read a single bible verse without seeing law in it! You are so biased that any rational dialogue is impossible. If we have the fruits of the Spirit we would obviously not have the acts of the flesh - the word law doesn't even come into play.

 

[Kenny'sID]

LOL. You can't read a single bible verse without seeing law in it!

Wrong, I'm picking out verses that pertain to law...that's all...your desperation is getting the best of you again...it does tend to mess with ones logic.

And you don't see that verse as pertaining to the law as well?

What do you mean it doesn't come into play? Paul seemed to think it did..

 

[bloodygrace]

Wrong, I'm picking out verses that pertain to law...that's all...your desperation is getting the best of you again...it does tend to mess with ones logic.

And you don't see that verse as pertaining to the law as well?

What do you mean it doesn't come into play? Paul seemed to think it did..

Paul said we are delivered from the law so we can live by the Spirit.

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. Rom. 7:6

Christians live by the Spirit and law keepers like yourself live by the letter and are under condemnation.

 

[Dave-W]

Paul said we are delivered from the law so we can live by the Spirit.

And yet Paul Himself kept the law. See Acts 21.
And he obligated Timothy to the law by circumcising him. See Acts 16.