Legalism or Sunday keeping - what is the mark?

[1John2:4]

I don't consider law keepers as my brothers and sisters 'in Christ'. They are enemies of the gospel.

I don't consider law keepers as my brothers and sisters 'in Christ'. They are enemies of the gospel.

Let's see what Yeshua/Jesus said about that
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[1John2:4]

There is a worldly peace in trying to earn heaven by keeping a day. It's a carnal peace but not the true rest of Christ.

Is there peace in being in rebellion twords His commandments?

 

[Dave-W]

Personal experience of 10 years of SDA legalism. My heart weeps for the misery they will most likely never escape.

I have had experience of IFB legalism and Holiness pentecostal legalism.

I cannot believe that their legalism has ANYTHING to do with the "mark of the beast."

You need to give us chapter and verse on that point. To me this is just another guess, not unlike the guesses I grew up with - having a social security number was considered the mark, as was having a credit card.

 

[Dave-W]

God puts his people under the law for a certain time and then he commands them to come out to a life of faith. He did the same thing with the Jews.

God never put anyone "under the law;" with the possible exception of Jesus.

 

[bloodygrace]

Where does that say he abolished the Sabbath? And yes you should not judge Bob, me or any other Sabbath keeper for keeping the Shabbat or what we eat or drink on that day, because they are the shadows that point to the Messiah. That verse does not do away with the Sabbath.
Just some biblical caution when quoting Paul.

Peter writes
—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scripture.

17 You therefore, beloved, since you knowthis beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; (other translations say lawless)

A shadow is a dim reflection of the real thing - the perfect, finished and complete work of Christ that believers enter into 24/7 by faith.

 

[bloodygrace]

God never put anyone "under the law;" with the possible exception of Jesus.

So why are you 'under the law' then? You need to live by God's unmerited grace to come out. Do you know what unmerited means?

 

[bloodygrace]

Let's see what Yeshua/Jesus said about that
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Christ fulfilled every type and shadow of the law at the cross and if I open my bible today the law (Torah) is still there it hasn't been abolished.

 

[bloodygrace]

Is there peace in being in rebellion twords His commandments?

Jesus' new commandment is to love not trust in the defunct covenant of dead works.

 

[Dave-W]

So why are you 'under the law' then? You need to live by God's unmerited grace to come out. Do you know what unmerited means?

I am NOT "under the law." Why do you think I am?

 

[Dave-W]

Jesus' new commandment is to love not trust in the defunct covenant of dead works.

Matt 28.19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; ....

Gal 4.4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,

And according to the Law, if an Israelite taught anyone to violate the Torah in any way, he was accursed and cut off. So if Jesus in any way taught his followers to ignore or disobey the Torah, he would have invalidated himself from being our sacrifice.

 

[1John2:4]

A shadow is a dim reflection of the real thing - the perfect, finished and complete work of Christ that believers enter into 24/7 by faith.

God uses types and shadows all though the Bible to teach us. One example is dates He has occurrences happen on multiple dates to convey a particular message. The feast days are a good example of that, they are called holy convocations, they are also rehearsals. Lets take Passover, the Israelites were saved out of bondage, with the blood of the lamb on the 14th of Nissan, during the festival of Passover & Unleavened Bread. Lets just take some of this shadow and see what it teaches, saved out of bondage by the blood of the lamb, does that not point to our Messiah. Unleavened bread- does Jesus call himself the bread of life, leaven (yeast) is referred to as sin. Is our Messiah the bread without leaven, the lamb with no broken bones. So much to be learned in just that little bit of shadow. He said to do this in remembrance of me, keep the Passover, He is the fulfillment of Passover. This is only one shadow, the Bible is full of them and some that have not been fulfilled like all of the fall feasts. Once I became obedient to His commandments with a servant's heart, he reveled them to me . We have so much to learn from the living word of God

 

[Dave-W]

The feast days are a good example of that,

Actually "feast" is a bad translation. The Hebrew word is moed which actually means an appointed time. A good example is Yom Kippur, the day of atonement. It is a mandated fast. How much feasting can you do during a fast?

 

[1John2:4]

Jesus' new commandment is to love not trust in the defunct covenant of dead works.

Defunct covenant? I find it really sad that you disrespect God's word in this way. Does He ever call it a defunct covenant and which part was defunct? The Israelites sin was why there was a need for the new one
Jeremiah 31:31 & Hebrews 8:7 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

 

[1John2:4]

Actually "feast" is a bad translation. The Hebrew word is moed which actually means an appointed time. A good example is Yom Kippur, the day of atonement. It is a mandated fast. How much feasting can you do during a fast?

Thanks for your help , I was just trying to help Bloodygrace with understanding, most people identify them as the feast days. I was not sure how much information he knew about the Moed/Moedim, but I do appreciate your feedback, and you are correct it is not the best translation, I totally agree with you. Btw how is your 10 days of Teshuvah going ?

 

[Dave-W]

Btw how is your 10 days of Teshuvah going ?

It is often a bit rough. This year is no exception.

But the Rabbi has been doing a wonderful set of teachings during the meetings. "Amazing" is the theme for the set. So far we have had "Grace" on Erev Yom Teruah, and "Righteouisness" in the daytime Yom Teruah service. 2 more to come on Yom Kippur.

The one on Righteousness IMO needs to be posted here for BG to hear. It may convince him we are NOT the judaizers he thinks we all are (both MJ and SDA).

 

[bloodygrace]

I am NOT "under the law." Why do you think I am?

Yes you are 'under the law'. Being under the law also means being under sin and the power of death. Sinners are morally corrupt and spiritually bankrupt so any attempt at keeping the law is like the blind man being put on sentry duty. The best service we can offer God is to humbly admit to our sinful condition and receive grace and pardon thru the blood of Jesus. The sinner who receives the 'well done good and faithful servant' is the one who believes in Jesus and puts no confidence in the flesh.

 

[bloodygrace]

Matt 28.19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; ....

Gal 4.4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,

And according to the Law, if an Israelite taught anyone to violate the Torah in any way, he was accursed and cut off. So if Jesus in any way taught his followers to ignore or disobey the Torah, he would have invalidated himself from being our sacrifice.

Paul the Israelite taught Christians to ignore the Torah in it's entirety. We are to live by grace thru faith expressed in love.

 

[bloodygrace]

Defunct covenant? I find it really sad that you disrespect God's word in this way. Does He ever call it a defunct covenant and which part was defunct? The Israelites sin was why there was a need for the new one
Jeremiah 31:31 & Hebrews 8:7 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

The old covenant is obsolete and has passed away for believers. Those that still cling to it show they are disobedient to the gospel.

 

[1John2:4]

The old covenant is obsolete and has passed away for believers. Those that still cling to it show they are disobedient to the gospel.

Below is the new covenant, He will write His Law on our hearts not do away with his law or make a new law.

31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Where do you read if you follow His law you are disobedient to the gospel?

 

[bloodygrace]

Below is the new covenant, He will write His Law on our hearts not do away with his law or make a new law.

31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Where do you read if you follow His law you are disobedient to the gospel?

Have you ever heard of the law of faith or the law of the Spirit? Rom. 3:27; 8:2